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Islam for non-Muslims
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islam for non-Muslims
Message Icon Topic: Who wrote Quran? Post Reply Post New Topic
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beloved
 
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Quote beloved Replybullet Posted: 18 August 2005 at 8:30pm
Brother, I need not know the science of Ahadith.  I would be grateful to you if you can help me out in the History of Holy Quran, thats all.

Atleast give me the reference of,'We used to compile the Qur'an from small scraps in the presence of the Apostle.' [Itqan, I, p. 99; Salih, p.69.]

I will read it by myself.

But I find you to be very intelligent reading your posts on Christianity etc.  But why are you so saddened of my question?
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Deus
 
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Quote Deus Replybullet Posted: 18 August 2005 at 8:52pm
A simple wikipedia search on "hadith" will give you a good introduction, though this page focuses more on the science of hadith and is more detailed (can be overwhelming for the first time). If you still have any questions regarding hadith, you're welcome to start a new thread (this one is concerned with Quran and it is getting long.)
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AhmadJoyia
 
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 20 August 2005 at 1:59pm

Originally posted by beloved


.....Atleast give me the reference of,'We used to compile the Qur'an from small scraps in the presence of the Apostle.' [Itqan, I, p. 99; Salih, p.69.]

I will read it by myself.

O my dear brother, not everything is online, so you need to go and search for the Islamic literature from some library etc. Search of "Jalal al-Din Suyuti, 'Al-Itqan fi-ulum al-Quran" would do the needful you asked for.

Cheers!

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Quote beloved Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2005 at 6:14am
Thank you Deus.

But we shall stick to the topic.
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beloved
 
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Quote beloved Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2005 at 7:01am
Thank you Ahmad.

Brother Ahmad, you may be very confident about the Ahadith, but even the earliest Hadith was written more than a century after Prophet Muhammad's demise.  Then how is it reliable?  Even if the science is good, it is mainly based on belief.  It is better not consider Ahadith which is of the topic.

You said,"Later day compilations were to make it in one or more bound copy/ies of Quran as per need basis."

But from the answer which you thought was complete, "Umar Ibn Al-Khattab urged Abu Bakr to preserve and compile the Qur'an. This was prompted after the battle of Yamamah, where heavy casualties were suffered among the reciters who memorized the Qur'an."
This means that the later day compilations were not to make It in one or more bound copy/ies of Holy Quran, but the compilation was an imminent need.
So can we assume that the Holy Quran which we have now is a compilation of Abu Bakr?

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AhmadJoyia
 
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2005 at 9:59am

Dea brother beloved thanks for your reply. As far "Then how is it reliable?" is concerned or even more stringently, about authenticity of ahadith is concerned, all comes in the domain of 'science of ahadith'. All issues of reliablity, authenticity and various gradation in them are scientifically looked upon and then accepted and is not a matter of faith at all. This is the reason, I referred you to that knowledge which is the basic before even alluding to it with such questions.

Now coming to your concern about "compilation", important thing to note is as what is meant by compilation at the two occassions i.e. compilation at the time of Prophet Mohammad and the compilation after wards. Compilation at the time of Prophet Mohammad refers to the process of putting all the written material in an ordered format, that is to say, the process of putting all the verses at their due positions; not necessarily in the form of a one unified book that we now see it. The later processes of compilation refers to making this loose but ordered peices/fragments transfer onto one and same kind of material on which it could be in written and thus forms one or more bound book/s.

 

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beloved
 
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Quote beloved Replybullet Posted: 24 August 2005 at 6:10am
scientifically looked upon and then accepted and is not a matter of faith at all.

Is there any mistake in the spelling?

Whatever was passed on, was in oral form.  That too for more than a century.  And it is the collection of history, an event in time, which means it cannot be repeated.  Then how can you say "scientifically"?  It is based on memory and the belief that the person is truthful.  Moreover different sects believe in different Ahadith.  Then how can you say that it is not a matter of faith at all?

Compilation at the time of Prophet Mohammad refers to the process of putting all the written material in an ordered format, that is to say, the process of putting all the verses at their due positions; not necessarily in the form of a one unified book that we now see it.

So you mean to say that the compilation was verbal.  But my question(and topic) were with regard to a hard copy which we are having at present.  So here we go again(but without straying away)...

The later processes of compilation refers to making this loose but ordered peices/fragments transfer onto one and same kind of material on which it could be in written and thus forms one or more bound book/s.

This compilation was made after the demise of our Prophet by Zayed Ibn Thabit.  Now this compilation was made from people based on their memory.  You also promised me about digging up their names for me which you said is not a big deal.


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AhmadJoyia
 
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 24 August 2005 at 7:14am

O my dear brother beloved (with blinking eyes), its really not as difficult to understand as someone may think. Instead of arguing baselessly, hairspliting with "spelling mistakes" or otherwise, it would be more prudent to spend time in opening up the references that are provided.

Regarding your comments "So you mean to say that the compilation was verbal...." is not the logical outcome from my reply especially once the second paragraph is read along with it where I mentioned the process of later compilations as "..making this loose but ordered peices/fragments transfer ..". These both compilations were physical actions and not verbal alone. Though the orders for compilation from Prophet Mohammad must have been verbal, same way as the revelations were communicated to the scribes, but the actions of scribes to obey these commands to put them in an ordered format can't be considered verbal alone.

Regarding the names of the scribe, I realised that not all Islamic literature is available online, hence not readily accessable as I initially thought. Nevertheless, once you open up the Islamic literature books, you would definitely come across them as well. 

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