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 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : General : Science & Technology
Message Icon Topic: The Science Behind the Veil (Hijab) Post Reply Post New Topic
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Gibbs
 
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Quote Gibbs Replybullet Posted: 11 June 2010 at 9:09pm
Ok Ace let me clear up some things. First, let me retract my statement on muslims and science statement. Let me say that Muslims on this forum (I want to localize it here to prevent generalization) have made statement across several threads criticizing contemporary science. Another ridiculous thread in this very category has also used bad information on cancer, I believe the thesis of that thread was how cancer is the body's natural defensive mechanism (which is wrong).

The point is some muslims are using bad information or are using information from other muslim sources that are anti-secular. In addition, I was trying to make the point that you cannot (or should not) criticize contemporary science and its discoveries and in the same breath talk about the "science of the Quran."

I believe embryology as discussed in the Quran is amazing, but I doubt the people at that time understood embryology as we understand it now. Besides embryology was discussed before Muhammad (see Aristotle).

As far as my comments go on discussing hijab I'm not entirely against it per say, I just see no reason to say how something which is basically a culture/religious custom has scientific value. I mean, no disrespect to the author of this thread its just that most things have some scientific value, hell I can make a thread on the scientific value of having blinds in your home.

Moving on I want to address the comment on Hijab and men. First off I think a lot of times some Muslims are misinformed on rape and sexual assault as many non-westerners get their information from movies or what they see in magazines. First off rape is not about sexual arousal its about power and the opportunity to dominate. I'm sure before the ousting of the taliban women who wore burkas were raped. I'm sure women in Iraq, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere were raped. I'm willing to be that you don't see much record of it is because rape victims don't report the crimes for many reasons. Most likely because the "woman's honor" has been tampered. My point is you can't stop men from looking. Hell you can wear a friggin bed sheet over yourself but the point is that it is my assumption that the hijab was to control (not prevent) misconduct between men and women.

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Hayfa
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Quote Hayfa Replybullet Posted: 12 June 2010 at 3:25am
Gibbs I agree with you. (it happens lol Smile)

If someone says "science proves" and you aske for the actual study, it  should be available. 

Rape is about power and control. And one must have the opportunity to act upon as well.  If you live in a gender segregated society, whether someone has ill-intentions or not, they must be given opportunity. Hard to do if you are only around men if in a family, thre are ALWAYS people around. Plus I read from sisters, in places like Egypt, women in hijab get sexually harassed.

And in the west where sex is quite accessible, we have plenty of rape. Why? They can get sex. Why would a good- looking college man drug and rape a woman? He can get sex. Why do that? That is a twisted mind with opportunity.
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Quote Hayfa Replybullet Posted: 12 June 2010 at 3:38am
Men's desire to rape comes up when they get aroused, IMO. If women apply Hijaab and conduct themselves modestly as instructed, they avoid the major, major initiative which leads to rape.

No that is not actually true. People can get arousal from different assumptions / thoughts of women. Some people get arousal thinking of a woman afraid. You have to realize the average rapist, rapes 17 times before they are caught. Most rapes are thought-out endeavors. Its not, I see woman, grab and rape. They do all types of things to control, study analyze, the woman. The crime IS associated with opportunity. Not dress code.

A student in a self-defense class was sexual assaulted in the elevator in her building. She was coming home from work, got into an elevator with a bad person. She could have been wearing something or nothing and it would not have mattered.

XX: it is all culturally constructed. I have seen women  that dress less " respectfully" by Islamic standards who are less likely to be victims of rape. Why? Because of the way they carry themselves in THIS society.  They are assertive, they come across  as "strong".  And I see women in full hijab who are at far greater risk because bu the view of men they are seen as "weak." When they showed clips of women walking to men who are in prison for assault they picked out  the same  women- by the way they walked and carried themselves. 

It is not how you dress, but whether you are viewed as  a "victim." I have taught self-defense for over 15 years. And I have met quiet and sweet young women. And yet they had an inner strong core. They were less likely to get into a bad situation then say a quiet meet person who could be taken advantage of.
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 12 June 2010 at 6:17am
Hi Chrysalis,

Vitamin D is the sunshine vitamin for good reason. During exposure to sunlight, the utraviolet B photons enter the skin and photolyze 7-dehydrocholesterol to previtamin D3 which in turn is isomerized by the body's temperature to vitamin D3. Most humans have depended on sun for their vitamin D requirement.

Current research has implicated vitamin D deficiency as a major factor in the pathology of at least 17 varieties of cancer as well as heart disease, stroke, hypertension, autoimmune diseases, diabetes, depression, chronic pain, osteoarthritis, osteoporosis, muscle weakness, muscle wasting, birth defects, periodontal disease, and more. So when outside not all of our skin should be covered or always layered with powerful sunblockers at all times.

Facial expressions are a form of nonverbal communication. They are a primary means of conveying social information among humans. There are seven universally recognized emotions shown through facial expressions: fear, anger, surprise, contempt, disgust, happiness, and sadness. Regardless of culture, these expressions are the same.

Face perception is the process by which the brain and mind understand and interpret the human face. Mirror neurons help humans understand goals and intentions of other humans and many researchers argue that the mirror neuron system is involved in empathy. The human face's proportions and expressions are important to identify origin, emotional tendencies, health qualities, and some social information. From birth, faces are important in the individual's social interaction. Face perceptions are very complex as the face expressions involve vast involvement of areas in the brain. Sometimes damaged parts of the brain can cause specific impairments in understanding faces or prosopagnosia (Source: Wikipedia).

Again, there's no problem for women wearing a veil either as a symbol for religion or to keep the head warm in winter.

There is a problem with face veils and moderate Muslim women should come up with creative strategies to make this unfortunate tradition disappear. Face-hiding garments are wrong except when walking to the south pole. Women should participate in public life, show their faces and have a significant influence in society. Showing their faces in private is not enough. Faces is what makes us human. As social creatures we rely on face perception. Taking faces away is a way of dehumanizing people.

If a man behaves in an inappropriate manner in public for example staring at you, tell him. That's what mature women do. If women think the veil reduces being stared at, fine. If it makes them more comfortable that way I can accept this. But they should not lose their faces. Foolish men should not be the reason for women to turn into faceless ghosts whenever they are in public. And in Western countries we got dress codes too. In a city it's not appropriate to run around naked and it's also not appropriate to run around fully cloaked. This has little to do with religion. It's a matter of culture and dress code. When Western women travel to Iran, for example as journalists, they respect the local dress code which means wearing a veil. This is okay. We should respect that. But we also want some respect when it comes to our culture and our dress codes in Western countries.




Edited by Matt Browne - 12 June 2010 at 6:22am
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 12 June 2010 at 6:38am
Hi Hayfa,

Rape is among the most heinous crimes on our planet. We should do everything to prevent it from happening. But I'd like to point out that rape exists in all countries including Muslim countries. Even in Saudi-Arabia, the supposedly most holy country on Earth. In a book published more than 10 years ago a Saudi princess describes life in her country.

Her brother seems to be an especially despicable example of moral decay resulting from having every wish fulfilled--he rapes young girls, uses underage prostitutes, hits women, and is cruel even to loyal servants. Yet a woman who breaks the rules, particularly in regard to sexual matters, pays a hefty price. Two incidents in particular stand out--in one, a father drowns his only and much beloved daughter in the family swimming pool for engaging in some admittedly rather wild sexual behavior with non-Saudi men. In another case, a young woman is locked into solitary confinement for the rest of her life for falling in love while abroad studying. At last report she was alive but insane.

No society is perfect. No country is perfect. In Western countries we got problems. There is human trafficking and kidnapped women forced to work as prostitutes. But there's also progress. Female genital mutilation does not exist in our countries. Female genital mutilation is still widespread in many Muslim countries.

Jesus is a prophet also admired by Muslims. He once said that we cannot pluck the splinter from our neighbor's eye when we have a plank in our own eyes.

Listing the sins of majority Christian countries and the blessings of Muslim countries won't accomplish anything. And vice versa. Mature Muslims and Christians should work together to build a better future in all countries.



Edited by Matt Browne - 12 June 2010 at 6:40am
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Quote xx__Ace__xx Replybullet Posted: 12 June 2010 at 9:07am
Hmmm.... up till now I'd always been under the impression that rape usually has the arousal factor as the initiative. Learned some new facts Big%20smile

Originally posted by Hayfa

Some people get arousal thinking of a woman afraid.

This one shocked me a little. That's just too heartless and seriously retarded Confused

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Quote Gibbs Replybullet Posted: 12 June 2010 at 10:14am
@ Hayfa

That is bold to sexually assault someone in the elevator that is a sick.

Going. back to the arousal issue which Hayfa touched up very well I believe the intent of Hijab as God has prescribed for women, was to control misconduct not prevent it. I am not knowledgeable on what pre-Islamic society was like in Arabia but I'm assuming the hijab was also placed to maintain a woman's "honor" but I could be very wrong.
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Quote Hayfa Replybullet Posted: 12 June 2010 at 5:58pm
Matt,

I agree with you. Violence against women is a huge problem all over the world, and it comes in many facets. Genital mutilation is actually an African custom, you won't see it say in the Middle East or the Far East. It is a cultural practice. Performed by Christians and Muslims alike.  To what happens to those young girls is quite horrifying.

This one shocked me a little. That's just too heartless and seriously retarded

Yes it is shocking but you realize that people who rape people are not "normal" in sense. Some can only "perform" if they dominate.  When you think about it, why would anyone want to force themselves on another human being?

Gibbs: I agree with you.

Also, if you want to see a show that will either turn one gray, or cause one to loose hair, watch a show called "I Survived" on Bio. It is INTENSE and not for the faint of heart. People talk about situations they survived like being stabbed 17 times, raped and left for dead or lost in the wilderness.  There are very deviant people out there.

When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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