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islamispeace
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Posted: 14 May 2010 at 2:11pm

And for your info.. u didnt refute anything except use 3:84 to claim that since it doesnt include Muhammad 3:81 should be talking about Muhammad.This is nothing but nonsense as far as i see.3:81 clearly talks about a covenant taken from the Prophets and 33:7 also talks about the same covenant so its very clear to me that the verses are related and the messenger in 3:81 is RK.

More rants from the pouting child. You harp about context, but only when it allegedly supports your views. The context of the verse means that the phrase "a messenger" refers to Muhammad (pbuh) as he is commanded in verse 84 to say that he and his followers believe in all the prophets and make no distinction between them.

Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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islamispeace
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Posted: 14 May 2010 at 2:27pm

Unfortunately again u fail to see light.So ur saying that the challenge and the miracle of the Quran is the richness and beauty of the Arabic in it???Well in that case the challenge wuld only apply to those who know Arabic.What relevance would this challenge have to the non arabs???How does this challenge apply to the non arabs???!!What is the point in challenging to produce a Surah in Arabic to over 95 percent of the world population when they dont speak arabic or have nothing to do with it???!So clearly.. the miraculous or unimitatable aspect of the Quran cannot be just Arabic.....

The Quran was revealed in Arabic and only the Arabic is free from error. Do you agree? Why then would the miracle not be in the original Arabic? There are many non-Arabs who know Arabic. Many scholars of Arabic are non-Arabs. They are not even Muslims and yet they acknowledge that the Quran is an entirely different form of Arabic poetry, one that does not fall into the 16 known classifications. It is a classification of its own, and for 1400 years, no one has imitated that. That sounds like a miracle to me and certainly more so than some code which only works when you remove some words or alter others.

If only you could quit nitpicking and look properly,u would see how that doesnt necessarily change the meaning of the verse in a big way.

Of course it changes the meaning! Using the English word "unseen" is very different from using the word "future". The former can mean many things and the latter is specific. In addition, even if the word should be translated as "future", in the context of the verse, it would the immediate future involving the questioning party and Muhammad (pbuh). If it was a reference to RK and his "miracle", why would Allah have said to the unbelievers to "wait"?

Furthermore, even though I think I have already exposed RK enough, I just can't help exposing him further. I previously gave an example of how he was inconsistent in his translation. Well, he was also inconsistent in how he translated "ghaib". For instance, he translated 2:3, which uses "ghaib", as saying "...who believe in the unseen, observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), and from our provisions to them, they give to charity." Why does he translate it differently from verse to verse? Was it the code again?

However,Im pretty much sure that if these translators knew anything about the math miracle of the Quran and the time of its revelation, they wouldve translated it exactly the way God intended it to be.

What does that have to do with anything? Is that what guided RK in his translation? A preconceived notion about a mathematical code? This is the nail in the coffin! You have exposed RK (oh the irony!!). He purposefully changed the meaning to fit the code and misguided himself and others.

Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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islamispeace
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Posted: 14 May 2010 at 2:39pm

Ok so i think now u acknowledge that GOD did not reveal every thing in the Quran to Prophet Muhammad.In many verses (10:1,12:1,13:1,15:1,26:2,27:1) God called them signs or proofs of the Quran.It would make no sense at all for GOD to say that these initials are signs or proofs of the scripture if he never wanted anyone to know HOW??????!The fact is GOD does not make false proclamations in the Quran.God revealed this amazing miracle in 1974 exactly 1406(19x74) lunar years after the Quran's revealation.And surprisingly the reference of the miracle of "19" happens to be Surah "74" titled the "Hidden one" or "Hidden Secret" !!

Only if you believe the word "ayat" means "letters". You are using circular reasoning to prove that the verses in question are referring to those specific letters, when in reality they are referring to the Quran itself. The first use of the letters is in 2:1, and it is followed by the words "ذَٰلِكَ ٱلْكِتَٰبُ لَا رَيْبَ ۛ فِيهِ ۛ هُدًۭى لِّلْمُتَّقِينَ" which is referring to the Book (kitabu) and not the letters themselves. In all the other verses, the word used is "ayat" which can mean verses, signs etc., but RK decided that it should be translated as "letters". Once again, he was basing his translation on the notion of the code. That was the sole reason he was translating the way he did, even if it was not the correct translation.

The word Ayah has many meanings such as verses ,signs,proofs etc.. if u dont know it please check a dictionary or other translations."Letters" in the translation are in brackets refering to Alef,Lam,Ra which i assume u know are Arabic letters or alphabets..Read carefully please.

Yes, I am aware of this. But there is no evidence that "ayat" can also mean "letters". Instead, as far I can see, the word for "letters" is "risalah" (رسائل).

Edited by islamispeace - 14 May 2010 at 2:53pm

Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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islamispeace
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Posted: 27 May 2010 at 2:37pm

Any comments from Haris?

Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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xx__Ace__xx

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Posted: 12 June 2010 at 1:21am

Haris has to be high to think Jesus' second coming is false. It is clearly spoken of in the Quran.

As for the question of his second coming "making him the last prophet", I kinda find it mediocre. Bare in mind this is his second coming, IMO. He was one of the Prophets sent earlier, before Muhammad SAW, so how the heck does it make him the last one? His second coming won't be to bring a new Islamic law, but to follow Muhammad SAW's, as Islamispeace pointed out earlier.

Woah woah woah, and reading Islamispeace's post, this guy RK sounds like a complete fraud. If anyone would tell me his full name or a bit about him? I gotta Google him up to see what all lies he's bluffed Big%20smile

Edited by xx__Ace__xx - 12 June 2010 at 1:26am

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islamispeace
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Posted: 12 June 2010 at 2:37pm

Originally posted by xx__Ace__xx

Haris has to be high to think Jesus' second coming is false. It is clearly spoken of in the Quran.

As for the question of his second coming "making him the last prophet", I kinda find it mediocre. Bare in mind this is his second coming, IMO. He was one of the Prophets sent earlier, before Muhammad SAW, so how the heck does it make him the last one? His second coming won't be to bring a new Islamic law, but to follow Muhammad SAW's, as Islamispeace pointed out earlier.

Woah woah woah, and reading Islamispeace's post, this guy RK sounds like a complete fraud. If anyone would tell me his full name or a bit about him? I gotta Google him up to see what all lies he's bluffed Big%20smile

As-salaam alaikum brother Ace Smile

RK stands for Rashad Khalifa. He claimed to be a messenger of God and believed that a mathematical code revolving around the number 19 existed in the Quran. He founded the United Submitters International, a group which claims to represent true Islam. They reject the Hadiths as fabrications and consider the Quran to be the source. Hence they are also known as "Quran-only" movement. RK was murdered in Arizona in 1990.

Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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xx__Ace__xx

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Posted: 12 June 2010 at 4:18pm

Walaikum Assallam.

Ahaan, thanks for the knowledge. Sounds a little similar to the weird Shia beliefs I've heard about, except it crosses the non-sensual limit by an even ridiculous margin when he claims himself to be a messenger -_-

Edited by xx__Ace__xx - 12 June 2010 at 4:23pm

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tayek1967

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Posted: 25 April 2012 at 4:58am

The same reason which u point out may be happen & create same situation now. so we say that make a platform to return jesus second time in the world. I sharing with u & your valuable topic. thanks.

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Prophets - Jesus
IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Prophets - Jesus

Author	Message
islamispeace Islam Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1417	Posted: 14 May 2010 at 2:11pm
	And for your info.. u didnt refute anything except use 3:84 to claim that since it doesnt include Muhammad 3:81 should be talking about Muhammad.This is nothing but nonsense as far as i see.3:81 clearly talks about a covenant taken from the Prophets and 33:7 also talks about the same covenant so its very clear to me that the verses are related and the messenger in 3:81 is RK. More rants from the pouting child. You harp about context, but only when it allegedly supports your views. The context of the verse means that the phrase "a messenger" refers to Muhammad (pbuh) as he is commanded in verse 84 to say that he and his followers believe in all the prophets and make no distinction between them.
	Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)
	IP Logged

islamispeace Islam Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1417	Posted: 14 May 2010 at 2:27pm
	Unfortunately again u fail to see light.So ur saying that the challenge and the miracle of the Quran is the richness and beauty of the Arabic in it???Well in that case the challenge wuld only apply to those who know Arabic.What relevance would this challenge have to the non arabs???How does this challenge apply to the non arabs???!!What is the point in challenging to produce a Surah in Arabic to over 95 percent of the world population when they dont speak arabic or have nothing to do with it???!So clearly.. the miraculous or unimitatable aspect of the Quran cannot be just Arabic..... The Quran was revealed in Arabic and only the Arabic is free from error. Do you agree? Why then would the miracle not be in the original Arabic? There are many non-Arabs who know Arabic. Many scholars of Arabic are non-Arabs. They are not even Muslims and yet they acknowledge that the Quran is an entirely different form of Arabic poetry, one that does not fall into the 16 known classifications. It is a classification of its own, and for 1400 years, no one has imitated that. That sounds like a miracle to me and certainly more so than some code which only works when you remove some words or alter others. If only you could quit nitpicking and look properly,u would see how that doesnt necessarily change the meaning of the verse in a big way. Of course it changes the meaning! Using the English word "unseen" is very different from using the word "future". The former can mean many things and the latter is specific. In addition, even if the word should be translated as "future", in the context of the verse, it would the immediate future involving the questioning party and Muhammad (pbuh). If it was a reference to RK and his "miracle", why would Allah have said to the unbelievers to "wait"? Furthermore, even though I think I have already exposed RK enough, I just can't help exposing him further. I previously gave an example of how he was inconsistent in his translation. Well, he was also inconsistent in how he translated "ghaib". For instance, he translated 2:3, which uses "ghaib", as saying "...who believe in the unseen, observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), and from our provisions to them, they give to charity." Why does he translate it differently from verse to verse? Was it the code again? However,Im pretty much sure that if these translators knew anything about the math miracle of the Quran and the time of its revelation, they wouldve translated it exactly the way God intended it to be. What does that have to do with anything? Is that what guided RK in his translation? A preconceived notion about a mathematical code? This is the nail in the coffin! You have exposed RK (oh the irony!!). He purposefully changed the meaning to fit the code and misguided himself and others.
	Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)
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islamispeace Islam Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1417	Posted: 14 May 2010 at 2:39pm
	Ok so i think now u acknowledge that GOD did not reveal every thing in the Quran to Prophet Muhammad.In many verses (10:1,12:1,13:1,15:1,26:2,27:1) God called them signs or proofs of the Quran.It would make no sense at all for GOD to say that these initials are signs or proofs of the scripture if he never wanted anyone to know HOW??????!The fact is GOD does not make false proclamations in the Quran.God revealed this amazing miracle in 1974 exactly 1406(19x74) lunar years after the Quran's revealation.And surprisingly the reference of the miracle of "19" happens to be Surah "74" titled the "Hidden one" or "Hidden Secret" !! Only if you believe the word "ayat" means "letters". You are using circular reasoning to prove that the verses in question are referring to those specific letters, when in reality they are referring to the Quran itself. The first use of the letters is in 2:1, and it is followed by the words "ذَٰلِكَ ٱلْكِتَٰبُ لَا رَيْبَ ۛ فِيهِ ۛ هُدًۭى لِّلْمُتَّقِينَ" which is referring to the Book (kitabu) and not the letters themselves. In all the other verses, the word used is "ayat" which can mean verses, signs etc., but RK decided that it should be translated as "letters". Once again, he was basing his translation on the notion of the code. That was the sole reason he was translating the way he did, even if it was not the correct translation. The word Ayah has many meanings such as verses ,signs,proofs etc.. if u dont know it please check a dictionary or other translations."Letters" in the translation are in brackets refering to Alef,Lam,Ra which i assume u know are Arabic letters or alphabets..Read carefully please. Yes, I am aware of this. But there is no evidence that "ayat" can also mean "letters". Instead, as far I can see, the word for "letters" is "risalah" (رسائل). Edited by islamispeace - 14 May 2010 at 2:53pm
	Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)
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islamispeace Islam Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1417	Posted: 27 May 2010 at 2:37pm
	Any comments from Haris?
	Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)
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xx__Ace__xx Senior Member Joined: 01 June 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 100	Posted: 12 June 2010 at 1:21am
	Haris has to be high to think Jesus' second coming is false. It is clearly spoken of in the Quran. As for the question of his second coming "making him the last prophet", I kinda find it mediocre. Bare in mind this is his second coming, IMO. He was one of the Prophets sent earlier, before Muhammad SAW, so how the heck does it make him the last one? His second coming won't be to bring a new Islamic law, but to follow Muhammad SAW's, as Islamispeace pointed out earlier. Woah woah woah, and reading Islamispeace's post, this guy RK sounds like a complete fraud. If anyone would tell me his full name or a bit about him? I gotta Google him up to see what all lies he's bluffed Edited by xx__Ace__xx - 12 June 2010 at 1:26am
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islamispeace Islam Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1417	Posted: 12 June 2010 at 2:37pm
	*Originally posted by xx__Ace__xx* Haris has to be high to think Jesus' second coming is false. It is clearly spoken of in the Quran. As for the question of his second coming "making him the last prophet", I kinda find it mediocre. Bare in mind this is his second coming, IMO. He was one of the Prophets sent earlier, before Muhammad SAW, so how the heck does it make him the last one? His second coming won't be to bring a new Islamic law, but to follow Muhammad SAW's, as Islamispeace pointed out earlier. Woah woah woah, and reading Islamispeace's post, this guy RK sounds like a complete fraud. If anyone would tell me his full name or a bit about him? I gotta Google him up to see what all lies he's bluffed As-salaam alaikum brother Ace RK stands for Rashad Khalifa. He claimed to be a messenger of God and believed that a mathematical code revolving around the number 19 existed in the Quran. He founded the United Submitters International, a group which claims to represent true Islam. They reject the Hadiths as fabrications and consider the Quran to be the source. Hence they are also known as "Quran-only" movement. RK was murdered in Arizona in 1990.
	Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)
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xx__Ace__xx Senior Member Joined: 01 June 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 100	Posted: 12 June 2010 at 4:18pm
	Walaikum Assallam. Ahaan, thanks for the knowledge. Sounds a little similar to the weird Shia beliefs I've heard about, except it crosses the non-sensual limit by an even ridiculous margin when he claims himself to be a messenger -_- Edited by xx__Ace__xx - 12 June 2010 at 4:23pm
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tayek1967 Newbie Joined: 14 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 18	Posted: 25 April 2012 at 4:58am
	The same reason which u point out may be happen & create same situation now. so we say that make a platform to return jesus second time in the world. I sharing with u & your valuable topic. thanks.
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