Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Is The Bible More Violent Than The Quran? Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 4
Author Message
johnford
 
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 17 December 2013
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 11
Quote johnford Replybullet Posted: 20 December 2013 at 12:15pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

If you discount the words of scripture as being the words of Yahshua(Jesus), how do you account for those words, written down by different people, in different lands, being in agreement with one another... (and no matter how many years had passed)?Salaam,CLynn


Well, the gospels any not in agreement on many essential aspects ... the last words of Jesus being but one example.



Edited by johnford - 20 December 2013 at 12:15pm
IP IP Logged
Caringheart
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 March 2012
Online Status: Online
Posts: 2122
Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 20 December 2013 at 7:41pm
Originally posted by johnford

Originally posted by Caringheart

If you discount the words of scripture as being the words of Yahshua(Jesus), how do you account for those words, written down by different people, in different lands, being in agreement with one another... (and no matter how many years had passed)?Salaam,CLynn


Well, the gospels any not in agreement on many essential aspects ... the last words of Jesus being but one example.


Greetings johnford,

I refer to the parables... the teachings... which are the main import of the Gospels.  These are the things that matter... what Yahshua taught.
The fact that He foretold of things which would happen to Him, and which were then observed and reported by the many people who witnessed the events.
The Gospels are in agreement on the essential aspects.  We have a different idea of what the essential aspects are. Smile

Salaam and blessings,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 20 December 2013 at 7:42pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
IP IP Logged
Al Saadiqeen21
 
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar

Joined: 19 August 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 547
Quote Al Saadiqeen21 Replybullet Posted: 21 December 2013 at 5:41am
Originally posted by johnford

Originally posted by Al Saadiqeen21

The Word Gospel you will see it's really saying [Ghost Spell '' Ghost Spell ( Gospel )


Where did you trawl this up from ... the gospels were written in Greek ... learn basic Greek.

'Gospel' is a translation of the Gk 'evaggelio' which essentially means 'to announce good news'.

 
Any real religious Scholar / Theologian etc , Will tell you that the Scriptures / Bible were orginally written in Aramic , Not  Greek nor Latin nor English . Also when changeing one language to another it loses it True meaning because of the Alphabet.  Sill doesn't change the fact Isa , Yashu'a , Jesus the Prophet / Messiah son of Mary . Neve -Ever said anything in The Bible . Bottom line !!
One doesn't go to school let His / her's mind to die , They go to school so that their mind will come alive .

IP IP Logged
Caringheart
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 March 2012
Online Status: Online
Posts: 2122
Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 21 December 2013 at 9:18pm
Originally posted by Al Saadiqeen21

Isa , Yashu'a , Jesus the Prophet / Messiah son of Mary . Neve -Ever said anything in The Bible . Bottom line !!

Greetings Al Saadiqeen,

Your logic is flawed. 

The words which Yahshua spoke to His followers are written in the Gospels, per His followers.

Just as the words spoken by Muhammad were written down by his followers.

Salaam,
Caringheart
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
IP IP Logged
Al Saadiqeen21
 
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar

Joined: 19 August 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 547
Quote Al Saadiqeen21 Replybullet Posted: 23 December 2013 at 4:41am
Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by Al Saadiqeen21

Isa , Yashu'a , Jesus the Prophet / Messiah son of Mary . Neve -Ever said anything in The Bible . Bottom line !!

Greetings Al Saadiqeen,

Your logic is flawed. 

The words which Yahshua spoke to His followers are written in the Gospels, per His followers.

Just as the words spoken by Muhammad were written down by his followers.

Salaam,
Caringheart
 
 
As -Salaamu AlayKum caringheart
 
One thing is forsure the follower Isa , Yashu'a , Jesus son of Mary , Is Not Yahuwa .
 
Nor are the follower of Prophet Muhammad  Allah .
One doesn't go to school let His / her's mind to die , They go to school so that their mind will come alive .

IP IP Logged
Al Saadiqeen21
 
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar

Joined: 19 August 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 547
Quote Al Saadiqeen21 Replybullet Posted: 30 January 2014 at 5:52pm
Originally posted by semar

 
Is The Bible More Violent Than The Quran?

Scholar Philip Jenkins argues that scriptures in the Quran are less brutal than those in the Bible. In his new book, "Jesus Wars," Jenkins points out that violence in the Quran is mostly defensive, but in the Bible, it is often a method of genocide.

As the hijackers boarded the airplanes on Sept. 11, 2001, they had a lot on their minds. And if they were following instructions, one of those things was the Quran.

In preparation for the suicide attack, their handlers had told them to meditate on two chapters of the Quran in which God tells Muslims to "cast terror into the hearts of unbelievers."

"Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them," Allah instructs the Prophet Muhammad (Quran, 9:5). He continues: "Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites! ... Hell shall be their home, an evil fate."

When Osama bin Laden declared war on the West in 1996, he cited the Quran's command to "strike off" the heads of unbelievers. More recently, U.S. Army Maj. Nidal Hasan lectured his colleagues about jihad, or "holy war," and the Quran's exhortation to fight unbelievers and bring them low. Hasan is accused of killing 13 people at Fort Hood, Texas, last year.

Given this violent legacy, religion historian Philip Jenkins decided to compare the brutality quotient of the Quran and the Bible.

Defense Vs. Total Annihilation

"Much to my surprise, the Islamic scriptures in the Quran were actually far less bloody and less violent than those in the Bible," Jenkins says.

Jenkins is a professor at Penn State University and author of two books dealing with the issue: Jesus Wars and Dark Passages books that haven't yet been published but are already drawing controversy.

Violence in the Quran, he and others say, is largely a defense against attack.

"By the standards of the time, which is the 7th century A.D., the laws of war that are laid down by the Quran are actually reasonably humane," he says. "Then we turn to the Bible, and we actually find something that is for many people a real surprise. There is a specific kind of warfare laid down in the Bible which we can only call genocide."

It is called herem, and it means total annihilation. Consider the Book of 1 Samuel, when God instructs King Saul to attack the Amalekites: "And utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them," God says through the prophet Samuel. "But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."

When Saul failed to do that, God took away his kingdom.

"In other words," Jenkins says, "Saul has committed a dreadful sin by failing to complete genocide. And that passage echoes through Christian history. It is often used, for example, in American stories of the confrontation with Indians not just is it legitimate to kill Indians, but you are violating God's law if you do not."

Jenkins notes that the history of Christianity is strewn with herem. During the Crusades in the Middle Ages, the Catholic popes declared the Muslims Amalekites. In the great religious wars in the 16th, 17th and 19th centuries, Protestants and Catholics each believed the other side were the Amalekites and should be utterly destroyed.

'Holy Amnesia'

All this begs the question: If the Bible is so violent, why isn't Christianity or Judaism?

"What happens in all religions as they grow and mature and expand, they go through a process of forgetting of the original violence, and I call this a process of holy amnesia," Jenkins says.

They make the violence symbolic: Wiping out the enemy becomes wiping out one's own sins. Jenkins says that until recently, Islam had the same sort of holy amnesia, and many Muslims interpreted jihad, for example, as an internal struggle, not physical warfare.

Andrew Bostom calls this analysis "preposterous." Bostom, editor of The Legacy of Jihad, says there's a major difference between the Bible, which describes the destruction of an enemy at a point in time, and the Quran, which urges an ongoing struggle to defeat unbelievers.

"It's an aggressive doctrine," he says. "The idea is to impose Islamic law on the globe."

Take suicide attacks, he says a tactic that Muslim radicals have used to great effect in the U.S., Iraq, Afghanistan and the Middle East. It's true that suicide from depression is forbidden in Islam but Bostom says the Quran and the Hadith, or the sayings of Muhammad, do allow self-destruction for religious reasons.

"The notion of jihad martyrdom is extolled in the Quran, Quran verse 9:1-11. And then in the Hadith, it's even more explicit. This is the highest form of jihad to kill and to be killed in acts of jihad."

'Out Of Context'

That may be the popular notion of jihad, says Waleed El-Ansary, but it's the wrong one. El-Ansary, who teaches Islamic studies at the University of South Carolina, says the Quran explicitly condemns religious aggression and the killing of civilians. And it makes the distinction between jihad legal warfare with the proper rules of engagement and irjaf, or terrorism.

"All of those types of incidences [Sept. 11], Maj. Nidal Hasan and so forth those are all examples of irjaf, not jihad," he says. According to the Quran, he says, those who practice irjaf "are going to hell."

So what's going on here? After all, we all have images of Muslim radicals flying planes into buildings, shooting up soldiers at Fort Hood, trying to detonate a bomb on an airplane on Christmas Day. How to reconcile a peaceful Quran with these violent acts?

El-Ansary says that in the past 30 years, there's been a perfect storm that has created a violent strain of Islam. The first is political: frustration at Western intervention in the Muslim world. The second is intellectual: the rise of Wahhabi Islam, a more fundamentalist interpretation of Islam subscribed to by Osama bin Laden. El-Ansary says fundamentalists have distorted Islam for political purposes.

"Basically what they do is they take verses out of context and then use that to justify these egregious actions," he says.

El-Ansary says we are seeing more religious violence from Muslims now because the Islamic world is far more religious than is the West. Still, Jenkins says Judeo-Christian cultures shouldn't be smug. The Bible has plenty of violence.

"The scriptures are still there, dormant, but not dead," he says, "and they can be resurrected at any time. Witness the white supremacists who cite the murderous Phineas when calling for racial purity, or an anti-abortion activist when shooting a doctor who performs abortions.

In the end, the scholars can agree on one thing: The DNA of early Judaism, Christianity and Islam code for a lot of violence. Whether they can evolve out of it is another thing altogether. Copyright 2010 National Public Radio. To see more, visit http://www.npr.org/.

 
Whilst we're on the subject of ( Terrorism , despite the current hysteria surrounding the threat of Islamic Extremism ) , it should be pointed out that So-called '' Islamic Terrorism '' is a relatively recent Phenomenon , not even ( Sanctioned by the Holy Koran ) , but a concept ( introduced to Islam by Non-Muslims ) .

Others have perpetrated and indeed ( perfected Terrorism long before Muslims later embraced this diabolical , contemptible and cowardly ideology ) . as far back as the 17th Century , Terrorist acts are documented to have been carried out by Non -Muslim namely ; Jewish ( Zionist ) , European ( White Supremacist ) and Irish ( Nationalist ) groups .

The first ever recorded act of Terrorism in history was carried out by Jewish / Zionist extremists against British forces in Jerusalem following the 2nd World War . The concept of '' Suicide '' as a tactic of Warfare , first originated with the Japanese '' Kamikaze '' or Devine Wind '' , against the American's in the Pacific , during the Second World War .

Whilst the actual use of Terrorism ie; the ''Indiscriminate Murder of Civilians for Political motives was actually perfected by the Zionlist / Israeli fanatics immediately after the Second World War . The following is a brief list of Non - Muslims Terrorist group's and some of their worst recorded '' Terrorist '' atrocities ;

1 ) . Irgun Zvei ( Jewish ) ; July 22nd 1946 , Zionist Milutants Detonate an Explosive device at the King David Hotel , Jerusalem , Killing ( 91 Innocent British & Arab Men , Women & Children .

2 ) . Stern Gang ( Jewish ) ; September 17th 1948 , Swedish United Nations medoator to Palestine , Count Folke Bernadotte is assasinated in Jerusalem by Zionist extremists in cold blood .

3 ) . Klu Klux Klan ( American ) September 15 , 1963 , Kian members detonate an explosive device at the 16th street Baptist Churcgh , Birmingham , Alabama , during Children's Bible Class , Killing four Afican American School Grils .

4 ) . Baader -Meinhof Gang aka 'The red army ( German ) , April 7th 1977 , State & Federal prosecutor Siegfried Buback and his driver were assasinated in Germany by Red Army member in Cold Blood .

5 ) . Red Brigade ( Italian ) May 9th 1978 , members of Red Brigade Murder Italian Prime Minster Aldo Moro , after Kidnapping him in Italy two months earlier .

6 ) . Ulster Volunteer Force aka U.V.F. ( Irish ) May 7th , 1974 , Three car bombs are detonated in Dublin , Ireland , ( Killing 35 Innocent Civilians .

7 ) . ETA ( Spanish ) June 19th , 1987 , Basque Separatist Militans ETA , Detonate an expolosive device in Hipercor shopping mall , in Barcelona , ( Killing 21 , and injuring 45 Innocent Civilians .

8 ) . Irish Republican army aka IRA ( Irish ) January 17th , 1992 , members IRA detonate an explosive device in Omagh , Northern island ( Killing 30 Inncents Civilians ) .

9 ) . Aryan Nation ( American ) April 19th , 1995 White Supremacists lead by Timothy McVaigh Detonate explosive device at Federal Building Okalahoma city , ( Killing 168 Inncent Civilians .

In fact it would be Accurate to say that Many of the Tactics and Strategies employed by ( European Terrorist groups , such as ( Kidnapping , Murder , Assassination , Bombings & Arson ) have only been Mimicked or Copied relatively recently by Islamic Terrorist movements from the numerous Nationalist , White -Supremacist & Zionist Terrorist organisation listed above .
One doesn't go to school let His / her's mind to die , They go to school so that their mind will come alive .

IP IP Logged
ahanim
Male Islam
Starter.
Starter.
Avatar

Joined: 24 January 2014
Location: Great Britain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6
Quote ahanim Replybullet Posted: 09 February 2014 at 5:59am
Originally posted by martha



What is a concern for me in current times is that people do not have a prophet and decide themselves( or listen to extremists) and then we have these bloodbaths. I don't agree that people should just go around killing others, but if what you say is right then I am justified to kill whoever I want to if I say the Quran allows me to do that because it's considered just?


Salam Aleikum,

we live in times of war. This is a cultural war started by the west.
The Islamic countries are not attacking. They are struggling in a desperate fight
to be free from western oppression. I do not want to justify every atrocity on that path, but i do believe that free people of an a attacked country have every right to defend themselves.

The right to fight violently is only allowed in a self defense situation.
If we looked at the history of Arab tribes before Islam and hard fighting they indulged you would be convinced that the philosophy of passive resistance would not have worked in that environment.



IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 4
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com