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semar
 
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Quote semar Replybullet Topic: Is The Bible More Violent Than The Quran?
    Posted: 18 March 2010 at 3:16pm
 
Is The Bible More Violent Than The Quran?

Scholar Philip Jenkins argues that scriptures in the Quran are less brutal than those in the Bible. In his new book, "Jesus Wars," Jenkins points out that violence in the Quran is mostly defensive, but in the Bible, it is often a method of genocide.

As the hijackers boarded the airplanes on Sept. 11, 2001, they had a lot on their minds. And if they were following instructions, one of those things was the Quran.

In preparation for the suicide attack, their handlers had told them to meditate on two chapters of the Quran in which God tells Muslims to "cast terror into the hearts of unbelievers."

"Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them," Allah instructs the Prophet Muhammad (Quran, 9:5). He continues: "Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites! ... Hell shall be their home, an evil fate."

When Osama bin Laden declared war on the West in 1996, he cited the Quran's command to "strike off" the heads of unbelievers. More recently, U.S. Army Maj. Nidal Hasan lectured his colleagues about jihad, or "holy war," and the Quran's exhortation to fight unbelievers and bring them low. Hasan is accused of killing 13 people at Fort Hood, Texas, last year.

Given this violent legacy, religion historian Philip Jenkins decided to compare the brutality quotient of the Quran and the Bible.

Defense Vs. Total Annihilation

"Much to my surprise, the Islamic scriptures in the Quran were actually far less bloody and less violent than those in the Bible," Jenkins says.

Jenkins is a professor at Penn State University and author of two books dealing with the issue: Jesus Wars and Dark Passages — books that haven't yet been published but are already drawing controversy.

Violence in the Quran, he and others say, is largely a defense against attack.

"By the standards of the time, which is the 7th century A.D., the laws of war that are laid down by the Quran are actually reasonably humane," he says. "Then we turn to the Bible, and we actually find something that is for many people a real surprise. There is a specific kind of warfare laid down in the Bible which we can only call genocide."

It is called herem, and it means total annihilation. Consider the Book of 1 Samuel, when God instructs King Saul to attack the Amalekites: "And utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them," God says through the prophet Samuel. "But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."

When Saul failed to do that, God took away his kingdom.

"In other words," Jenkins says, "Saul has committed a dreadful sin by failing to complete genocide. And that passage echoes through Christian history. It is often used, for example, in American stories of the confrontation with Indians — not just is it legitimate to kill Indians, but you are violating God's law if you do not."

Jenkins notes that the history of Christianity is strewn with herem. During the Crusades in the Middle Ages, the Catholic popes declared the Muslims Amalekites. In the great religious wars in the 16th, 17th and 19th centuries, Protestants and Catholics each believed the other side were the Amalekites and should be utterly destroyed.

'Holy Amnesia'

All this begs the question: If the Bible is so violent, why isn't Christianity or Judaism?

"What happens in all religions as they grow and mature and expand, they go through a process of forgetting of the original violence, and I call this a process of holy amnesia," Jenkins says.

They make the violence symbolic: Wiping out the enemy becomes wiping out one's own sins. Jenkins says that until recently, Islam had the same sort of holy amnesia, and many Muslims interpreted jihad, for example, as an internal struggle, not physical warfare.

Andrew Bostom calls this analysis "preposterous." Bostom, editor of The Legacy of Jihad, says there's a major difference between the Bible, which describes the destruction of an enemy at a point in time, and the Quran, which urges an ongoing struggle to defeat unbelievers.

"It's an aggressive doctrine," he says. "The idea is to impose Islamic law on the globe."

Take suicide attacks, he says — a tactic that Muslim radicals have used to great effect in the U.S., Iraq, Afghanistan and the Middle East. It's true that suicide from depression is forbidden in Islam — but Bostom says the Quran and the Hadith, or the sayings of Muhammad, do allow self-destruction for religious reasons.

"The notion of jihad martyrdom is extolled in the Quran, Quran verse 9:1-11. And then in the Hadith, it's even more explicit. This is the highest form of jihad — to kill and to be killed in acts of jihad."

'Out Of Context'

That may be the popular notion of jihad, says Waleed El-Ansary, but it's the wrong one. El-Ansary, who teaches Islamic studies at the University of South Carolina, says the Quran explicitly condemns religious aggression and the killing of civilians. And it makes the distinction between jihad — legal warfare with the proper rules of engagement — and irjaf, or terrorism.

"All of those types of incidences — [Sept. 11], Maj. Nidal Hasan and so forth — those are all examples of irjaf, not jihad," he says. According to the Quran, he says, those who practice irjaf "are going to hell."

So what's going on here? After all, we all have images of Muslim radicals flying planes into buildings, shooting up soldiers at Fort Hood, trying to detonate a bomb on an airplane on Christmas Day. How to reconcile a peaceful Quran with these violent acts?

El-Ansary says that in the past 30 years, there's been a perfect storm that has created a violent strain of Islam. The first is political: frustration at Western intervention in the Muslim world. The second is intellectual: the rise of Wahhabi Islam, a more fundamentalist interpretation of Islam subscribed to by Osama bin Laden. El-Ansary says fundamentalists have distorted Islam for political purposes.

"Basically what they do is they take verses out of context and then use that to justify these egregious actions," he says.

El-Ansary says we are seeing more religious violence from Muslims now because the Islamic world is far more religious than is the West. Still, Jenkins says Judeo-Christian cultures shouldn't be smug. The Bible has plenty of violence.

"The scriptures are still there, dormant, but not dead," he says, "and they can be resurrected at any time. Witness the white supremacists who cite the murderous Phineas when calling for racial purity, or an anti-abortion activist when shooting a doctor who performs abortions.

In the end, the scholars can agree on one thing: The DNA of early Judaism, Christianity and Islam code for a lot of violence. Whether they can evolve out of it is another thing altogether. Copyright 2010 National Public Radio. To see more, visit http://www.npr.org/.

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truthnowcome
 
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Quote truthnowcome Replybullet Posted: 28 March 2010 at 10:23pm
Originally posted by semar

 
Is The Bible More Violent Than The Quran?

Scholar Philip Jenkins argues that scriptures in the Quran are less brutal than those in the Bible. In his new book, "Jesus Wars," Jenkins points out that violence in the Quran is mostly defensive, but in the Bible, it is often a method of genocide.

Peace be unto all!

Philip Jerkins is sure correct, because according to the bible in Jesus second coming he will Murder people at will.  

This is what it says in his second coming according to the bible:

“And I saw heaven open, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called faithful and true.  And in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.” (Rev.19:11-12)

 He would be called faithful and true, he would judge and make war in righteousness, he would support by many kings: his head were many crowns and only he knew how to destroy the BEAST: he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

And the he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. (V.13)

 He will judge and make war in righteousness for the Word of God.

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. (Rev.19:14)

The armies which is in Heaven that upon white horses are those who were chosen, and the white horses are the bird that flies in midst of heaven:

And he said unto me, Write, Bless are THEY which are called unto the MARRIAGE SUPPER of the Lamb. And he said unto me, These are the true saying of God. (Rev19:9)

 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the FOWLS that flies in the midst of heaven come and gather yourself together unto the SUPPER of the Great God; that you may EAT the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. (Rev.1917-18)

We have the saint which is the armies and the fowls that fly in midst of heaven (that is mid air); they are called unto the MARRIGE SUPPER to eat of those people. Which fowls or bird that flies in midst (Air) heaven can eat those people, feather bird or iron bird? That is war with fowls that flies (plane in the sky)! Isn’t that terrorism? Think about it, if in this modern day we see a man with a group of people flying plane and killing people what would you call him, a holy man or a terrorist? If you say A TERRORIST!!! That means the second coming of Jesus (S) according to the bible Jesus (S) would be LABELE AS A TERRORIST.

But the bible labels Him as a man of JEHAD (struggle against evil government):

 “…behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called faithful and true.  And in righteousness he doth judge and make war…” (Rev.19:11-12)

If he claimed to have wage war in righteousness what would you call that “JEHAD OR TERRIORISM?” That question is for Christians!

This is what the bible says:

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smith the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. (V.15)

 He shall use war of words to motivate the believers to smith the nations: The evil Government that involve prostitutions, alcohols and all evil (THE MOTHER OF HERLOTS. He shall treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. How would he do that? I have already explained above; and that is at the “MARRIGE SUPPER!” Imagine the bible is saying Jesus (S) and his followers will fly plain and kill people and the God of the bible describes it as “SUPPER OF THE GREAT GOD and THE WRATH OF ALMIGHTY GOD”

tnc

 

 
 
LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!
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Pati
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Quote Pati Replybullet Posted: 04 April 2010 at 10:31am
Hi Semar,
 
I think that all depends on the mind of the reader, and the intention of the reading. I mean, if I am a Muslim who doesn't see anything good in the Christian Faith, and I read the Bible, I will find lot of "violence", and lot of bad things.
 
And opposite, if I am a Christian who doesn't see anything good in the Islamic Faith, I will not be able to find anything good in Quran, opposite, I will see lot of bad things.
 
If your mind is ready to find bad things in what you read, you surely do.
 
I prefer to read every text I take with an opened mind, and not judging the whole text after finding the first idea I disagree with.
 
I read the Bible and I found it beautiful. I read the Quran, and I find it beautiful too. Where is the point to look for the bad things? I don't understand it.
 
Regards
Patricia
No God wants the killing, but the peace.
The weapons are carried by people, not by religions.
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 04 April 2010 at 7:27pm
After knowing both, the Quran and the Bible, I would say, there is no comparison since what is portrayed by anti-Islamic media as violence in the Quran is not really so, rather out of context of what is a just punishment, for example, for those who cause mischief on the earth or murder. Punishing them so they don't commit these crimes again is justice and not violence. To the contrary, many Biblical passages clearly cross the line where supposedly under God's command innocent people including infants, animals and trees to be utterly destroyed.
Thus, it is the Bible that is violent, while the Quran protects innocent life, and permits taking of a life only through the way of justice, as in a 'life for a life' situation, or to stop those who spread mischief.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 04 April 2010 at 7:35pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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semar
 
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Quote semar Replybullet Posted: 04 April 2010 at 11:44pm
Originally posted by Pati

Hi Semar,
 
I think that all depends on the mind of the reader, and the intention of the reading. I mean, if I am a Muslim who doesn't see anything good in the Christian Faith, and I read the Bible, I will find lot of "violence", and lot of bad things.
 
And opposite, if I am a Christian who doesn't see anything good in the Islamic Faith, I will not be able to find anything good in Quran, opposite, I will see lot of bad things.
 
If your mind is ready to find bad things in what you read, you surely do.
 
I prefer to read every text I take with an opened mind, and not judging the whole text after finding the first idea I disagree with.
 
I read the Bible and I found it beautiful. I read the Quran, and I find it beautiful too. Where is the point to look for the bad things? I don't understand it.
 
Regards
Patricia
Thanks Paty. I agree with you. I post this just to show that any scripture can be considered preaching violence if it's interpreted out of context.
Salam/Peace,
Semar
The Prophet said: "Do not eat before you are hungry, and stop eating before you are full"
"1/3 of your stomach for food 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"
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Quote martha Replybullet Posted: 05 April 2010 at 3:11am
Salams,
Please excuse me if I am wrong, and correct nicely as necessary :) Thanks.

When we read in the Bible, are not these instructions to murder revealed to the Prophets of the time. And likewise with the Qu'ran..did ALlah not tell Muhammed(pbuh) to kill in all righteousness? If this is the case, and because we have no Prophets now..then how can current events be justified in the sake of religion?

some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 05 April 2010 at 6:48pm
Martha,
the main purpose God sent prophets was to guide mankind and to deliver the Word of God to them, so they have it as a guide with them.
What we are talking about above is that some of the prophets that are mentioned in the Bible are quoted to have received command from God to kill and destroy those who worship other gods. The commands for such mass killings are so brutal so not leave anything alive, old, young, children, even babies. But that's not all, to destroy town, buy burning them to the ground, killing livestock, trees, crops and so on.
God's commands in the Quran for taking a life are very different, for righteous and just reasons like I mentioned in my previous post, for justice in the case of a murder or for those who make mischief etc.
Each prophet's teaching were to cover all the people until God sent another one. For our times, the commands of God were sent through the seal of the prophets, prophet Mohammed (pbuh) these commands or the Quran is valid through the end of times and its commands apply to all.
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote martha Replybullet Posted: 06 April 2010 at 7:37am
Salams honeto,

I agree with some of your post, but not all.
My point is that God told prophets what to do..ok, that included killing..I assume for the cause of righteousness.

What is a concern for me in current times is that people do not have a prophet and decide themselves( or listen to extremists) and then we have these bloodbaths. I don't agree that people should just go around killing others, but if what you say is right then I am justified to kill whoever I want to if I say the Quran allows me to do that because it's considered just?

some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
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