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Islam for non-Muslims
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Hayfa
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Quote Hayfa Replybullet Posted: 23 February 2010 at 4:49am
Asalaam Alaiakum,

Well people will have their opinions.. some will even sell books.. Wink

Wonderful,  I became a Muslim nearly 6 years ago -Alhamdillah. I was probably one of the most cynical people regarding religion. And before I did my Shahada.. long before, I went and visited Pakistan (I love to travel). I met some of the best people I have3 ever met. Have you read Three Cups of Tea by Greg Mortenson? He knows lots of Muslims and could tell you about the character and integrity. And how not to take a few and judge a whole group of people.

And I do not think that all the people I have met, or are Muslim or have become Muslim are "practicing Islam wrong"  Would you not say that attitude is ARROGANT??  That I, a very well educated western woman cannot read and research for myself?  Most of the people in the US who have become Muslim are educated western women. We are not st**id or ignorant or cannot use our heads.  And most women are not going to join anything that would tell us to go out and kill people, cause most women do not commit acts of violence, they certainly are not out creating mayham and war (like SOME governments) all over the place.

Are you thinking for yourself? Don't know who that person is. But most people have all types of agendas.. at least you acknowledge who gave you that reply.

And did you know that back in the days of the Transatlantic Slave Trade.. those Africans captured were forced to convert before they were put on ships to die or be enslaved.  So who is misguided in Christianity- the mostly decent people in the world, or those types who forced conversion and enslavement people? Which one?? There are bad apples on every tree.




When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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_ALI_
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Quote _ALI_ Replybullet Posted: 28 February 2010 at 8:24am
Salam wonderful
I'll try to respond to your friend. His post=bold
"I am not a scholar on it but have done a lot of research…

I can see that he is not a scholar :). Now there are a large number of Islamic critics who base their opinions on out-of-context verses and hadith. They have their own websites and their out-of-context quotes have been clarified many times in Muslims sites but still the websites are still there. So your friend probably did his research over there. Here is a funny article about misconceptions of Muslims.
http://maniacmuslim.com/2005/06/02/misconceptions-of-muslims/
I have found that the extremists are the ones following the religion the way Muhammad intended and wrote the Quran...
First off, prophet Muhammad did not write the Quran. And this is the type of stuff only Muslim-critic website teach. I've been living in a Muslim majority country and I've know many good practicing Muslims (I try to be one too). None of them are extremist in any way. And as for those black sheep which are extremists, well, there are extremists in every religion. Two Christian extremists, Hitler and Stalin have individually killed so many people that they would outnumber all Muslim extremists put together.
Those whom are peaceful and loving Muslims do not necessarily follow the religion the way it is written…I am including a link to a book below written by a former Islamic PHD…He could recite the whole Quran by the time he was 12…
Another doctrine of a critic. Muslims who are for peace are not Muslims. Well it is pretty baseless. It is true that Quran speaks about fighting but those verses are only regarding self defense. That is what majority of Muslim scholars believe and what the sayings of the prophet tells us. But critics normally ignore all the evidence which tell us that Islam is for peace. According to Quran, we should only fight those who fight us because we are Muslims or kick us out of our homes

060.008 لا يَنْهَاكُمُ اللَّهُ عَنِ الَّذِينَ لَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ وَلَمْ يُخْرِجُوكُمْ مِنْ دِيَارِكُمْ أَنْ تَبَرُّوهُمْ وَتُقْسِطُوا إِلَيْهِمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُقْسِطِينَ
060.008 Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.
Al-Qur'an, 060.008 (Al-Mumtahina [She that is to be Examined, Examining Her])
Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910
Biblically speaking the line of Ishmael (Abrahams illegitimate son through Hagar) is the line through which Muslims claim God fulfilled the promise, while we believe in Isaac
Ishmael was not illegitimate, that is a false allegation. According to Islam, prophets don't knowingly sin.
God instructed Abraham to kill Ishmael but he did not
Abraham was about to kill Ishmael but God brought a lamb and that lamb was sacrificed instead of Ishmael.
It is on this axis that the line leading to Muhammad(Through Ishmael) and Jesus(Through Isaac) were formed…The scriptures say it is these two lines that will meet on the plains of Megiddo for battle (Armageddon)…
On the contrary, the "scriptures" predict that prophet Muhammad will come after Jesus as a prophet.
http://www.islam101.com/religions/christianity/mBible.htm
So I believe opposite to what you say…I do believe "Islam" is the threat and that most Muslims are not, because just as most Catholics could barely tell you why Jesus came or for that matter the difference between the new and old testament, most Muslims don't know who Muhammad truly was or in what context the Quran was written…
I don't know about catholics but Muslims are aware of Islam and we know the context of Quran. In fact, those who study Quran don't read translation and arabic only. They also read explanation given by scholars in the light of other Quranic verses and the sayings of the prophet.
Anything peaceful in the Quran was long ago dispelled by its author(Muhammad) in favor of bloodshed and Jihad.
A lot of your friend's opinions (well, all of them to be honest)are just absolutely wrong. This is one of them.
The US is putting more and more false doctine about Islam into our public schools and it weaves a false web, which is exactly what the devil wants:)

http://www.amazon.com/Islam-Jews-Unfinished-Mark-Gabriel/dp/0884199568

I don't believe you got many right answers on that forum…I believe this book and his other will properly address the questions you had."

Well regarding Palestine, I would recommend reading Palestine:Peace not Apartheid by Jimmy Carter. It's a good book. As for learning about Islam and Muslims, don't go for Islamic critics. Instead ask a Muslim.
"This guy was an Iman and a PhD in Islamic History…Present day Islam is taken out of context with the order the Quran was written…Putting it into it's sequential order reveals a whole lot more about the man Muhhamad and for that matter the Quran as it relates to interpretation…
I agree that present day Islam is taken out of context, by Muslim critics, not the Muslims themselves. Their allegations have been answered again and again in muslim websites and forums.
Muhammad said if anything new was revealed to him that conficted with prior revelation that the new revelation would be law and the old was not to be followed any longer… For that reason a true Muslim must follow it in order…Those who don't are using it out of context…
Now this is a good example of an out-of-context verse (i.e old one being obsolete and new one being accepted). First off, prophet Muhammad didn't say this, Quran says this. Here is the verse and its explanation (by a Muslim scholar not critic)
(2:106) We bring a better verse or at least the like of it for whatever we abrogate or cause it to be forgotten.109
"*109. This is in response to a doubt which the Jews tried to implant in the minds of the Muslims. If both the earlier Scriptures and the Qur'an were revelations from God, why was it - they asked - that the injunctions found in the earlier Scriptures had been replaced by new ones in the Qur'an? How could the same God issue divergent injunctions? Furthermore, they expressed their amazement at the Qur'anic indictment of the Jews and Christians for having allowed part of the revelation to be forgotten and lost, pointing out that it was impossible that Divine revelation should be erased from human memory. In all this, their motive was not to know the truth but to cast doubt on the Divine origin of the Qur'an. In refutation God states that He being the Absolute Sovereign has unlimited authority both to abrogate previous injunctions and to cause people to forget the injunctions He wants them to forget. However, God ensures that whatever He abrogates or causes to be erased from people's memories is replaced by something equally or even more beneficial."
http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php?sura=2&verse=104&to=112
You'll understand it better if you read it in context. Once again, I'll advice you that instead of reading a book of a critic, why not read the Quran itself, its translation and explanation. And if you think any verse is against humanity as a whole, come and discuss that verse in this forum.
Peace
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Sign*Reader
 
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Quote Sign*Reader Replybullet Posted: 09 March 2010 at 1:58am
IN CASE YOU COME BACK HERE ARE MY TWO CENTS..........
Originally posted by wonderful

After our discussion I emailed the link to this forum to some close friends.

One response follows. It is not meant to be inflammatory so please do not take it that way. This was a private response to me. In the interest of transparency I would ask that you please address my friend's response.
I reckon your friends are old enough to debate on their own instead of  spamming through you...
"
I am not a scholar on it but have done a lot of research…I have found that the extremists are the ones following the religion the way Muhammad intended and wrote the Quran...Those whom are peaceful and loving Muslims do not necessarily follow the religion the way it is written…I am including a link to a book below written by a former Islamic PHD…He could recite the whole Quran by the time he was 12…Biblically speaking the line of Ishmael (Abrahams illegitimate son through Hagar)(WOW! show the true colors of the company you keep BY THE SAME TOKEN  Rachel's maid BILHAH's SONS DAN & NAPHTALI & Leas' maid ZILPAH's GAD & ASHER should also be ILLEGITIMATE...Are you guys that screwed up morons? sis the line through which Muslims claim God fulfilled the promise, while we believe in Isaac(WHO ARE THESE WEs?)…God instructed Abraham to kill Ishmael but he did not…(YOUR FRIENDS' IGNORANCE is NOT YOUR PROBLEM unless you concur with them)It is on this axis that the line leading to Muhammad(Through Ishmael) and Jesus(Through Isaac) were formed…The scriptures say it is these two lines that will meet on the plains of Megiddo for battle (Armageddon)…Ke sara sara!

So I believe opposite to what you say…I do believe "Islam" is the threat and that most Muslims are not, because just as most Catholics could barely tell you why Jesus came or for that matter the difference between the new and old testament,

Don't expect us to fix your Catholic problem, if you are a dumb WASP... it is too darn late...The Jews have screwed you over in the US through blacks and Catholics using using the civil right laws and the whole legal framework...Now you are just the moronic fringe spreading Islamophobia and losing on every front...Don't believe me look at all the top offices in the US with power ...Do you see any with a WASP? Practically you guys are barking at the wrong tree...You have economically imploded yourself in the process...Just wake up! Fighting the wars and ruining your own future! Chinese just love your dumbness in givin them the empire on a gold platter!

most Muslims don't know who Muhammad truly was or in what context the Quran was written…

OK may be this part...That is why they the lost the ummah!

Anything peaceful in the Quran was long ago dispelled by its author(Muhammad) in favor of bloodshed and Jihad.


That being said, Our commandment is to love them and not to preach hatred…I don't necessarily believe in tolerance as it pertains to acceptance of false doctrine but I do believe in love and boundaries for our children…The US is putting more and more false doctine about Islam into our public schools and it weaves a false web, which is exactly what the devil wants:)

Don't know what is this blithering!

http://www.amazon.com/Islam-Jews-Unfinished-Mark-Gabriel/dp/0884199568

Is that why when Jews were expelled during Spanish Inquisition, they found sanctuary in Islamic empire? Thanks for reminding the Jesus freaks would rather use ovens, napalm, high explosives daisy cutters, nukes hellfires to incinerate the humanity! Did you look up the number of millions the peace loving fried their own( Jews and Christians) in last century alone!

I don't believe you got many right answers on that forum…I believe this book and his other will properly address the questions you had."

You may be are violating forum's rules by spamming this !

subsequent reply:

"This guy was an Iman and a PhD in Islamic History…Present day Islam is taken out of context with the order the Quran was written…Putting it into it's sequential order reveals a whole lot more about the man Muhhamad and for that matter the Quran as it relates to interpretation…Muhammad said if anything new was revealed to him that conficted with prior revelation that the new revelation would be law and the old was not to be followed any longer… For that reason a true Muslim must follow it in order…Those who don't are using it out of context…Remember, He is the founder of the whole religion and the author of the twist between Ishmael and Isaac (well satan is probably the author but he was the pawn)…The book opened my eyes…"

There is whole industry of moronic sycophants to work for the Zionists in Egypt and anywhere US dollar is almighty... the dictator hosni Mubarak with a non muslim wife who is accessory to the crime of genocide in Gaza to please the Zionist camp!
What is the credibility of Mark Gabriel's hogwash ...OK now cut the nonsense I thought you were reading Paul's bible!
No book can open the eyes of people who are in clutches of Zionists! Your souls in their hands and their's in devil's that is what I see all around!


Edited by Sign*Reader - 19 March 2010 at 12:15pm
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Quote FethullahGulen Replybullet Posted: 14 May 2010 at 7:48am
There is a really great book that has all of the answers of your questions. I already posted it under the books section. Here is the link to that post
http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16778
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wonderful
 
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Quote wonderful Replybullet Posted: 16 May 2010 at 6:35pm
That's a big help. Thank you. I'll get to it when I have time.
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 02 July 2010 at 9:52pm
Originally posted by wonderful

After our discussion I emailed the link to this forum to some close friends.

One response follows. It is not meant to be inflammatory so please do not take it that way. This was a private response to me. In the interest of transparency I would ask that you please address my friend's response.

"
I am not a scholar on it but have done a lot of research…I have found that the extremists are the ones following the religion the way Muhammad intended and wrote the Quran...Those whom are peaceful and loving Muslims do not necessarily follow the religion the way it is written…I am including a link to a book below written by a former Islamic PHD…He could recite the whole Quran by the time he was 12…Biblically speaking the line of Ishmael (Abrahams illegitimate son through Hagar) is the line through which Muslims claim God fulfilled the promise, while we believe in Isaac…God instructed Abraham to kill Ishmael but he did not…It is on this axis that the line leading to Muhammad(Through Ishmael) and Jesus(Through Isaac) were formed…The scriptures say it is these two lines that will meet on the plains of Megiddo for battle (Armageddon)…

So I believe opposite to what you say…I do believe "Islam" is the threat and that most Muslims are not, because just as most Catholics could barely tell you why Jesus came or for that matter the difference between the new and old testament, most Muslims don't know who Muhammad truly was or in what context the Quran was written…Anything peaceful in the Quran was long ago dispelled by its author(Muhammad) in favor of bloodshed and Jihad.

That being said, Our commandment is to love them and not to preach hatred…I don't necessarily believe in tolerance as it pertains to acceptance of false doctrine but I do believe in love and boundaries for our children…The US is putting more and more false doctine about Islam into our public schools and it weaves a false web, which is exactly what the devil wants:)

http://www.amazon.com/Islam-Jews-Unfinished-Mark-Gabriel/dp/0884199568

I don't believe you got many right answers on that forum…I believe this book and his other will properly address the questions you had."

subsequent reply:

"This guy was an Iman and a PhD in Islamic History…Present day Islam is taken out of context with the order the Quran was written…Putting it into it's sequential order reveals a whole lot more about the man Muhhamad and for that matter the Quran as it relates to interpretation…Muhammad said if anything new was revealed to him that conficted with prior revelation that the new revelation would be law and the old was not to be followed any longer… For that reason a true Muslim must follow it in order…Those who don't are using it out of context…Remember, He is the founder of the whole religion and the author of the twist between Ishmael and Isaac (well satan is probably the author but he was the pawn)…The book opened my eyes…"



wonderful,
your friend's words don't sound much different than what you would hear on right wing talk shows or from 'Zionistic' pastors like Mr. Hagee, who don't waste an opportunity to defame Islam, because it is rival to them.
So, I would not pay any attention to their hate and lies they craft out to follow their agenda.
Rather, I would suggest to you, and ask you to read the Bible and read the Quran for yourself, and then come back with your finding. I guarantee you would have answers to all those questions you posed, and this friends true intentions will be unveiled to you.
This first hand analysis by yourself will be your best answer.
As for as peaceful and practicing Muslim, that will be no different than in any other belief. There are people who are violent and people who are peaceful and people who are victims, people would be people.
Hitler was a Christian, so was Mussolini. In last three decades right in front of our eyes more than three million Muslims have been slaughtered, their lives, livelihood, their cities and countries raised to the ground by what could easily be translated as Christian armies, and we are fearful to even talk about it, call a spade a spade.
So, truth has a price, but we must seek it, and live by it.
Again I will say, read the Bible, and the Quran, and you would not have to rely what your friend tells you or what anyone else! Because, one thing in Islam we say is that you will answer for yourself, and will not be asked what someone else did or said. So each and everyone of us must search and find the answers and be ready when the time comes!
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 02 July 2010 at 9:57pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote wonderful Replybullet Posted: 13 July 2010 at 5:38am
Becoming more comfortable with your opinion. I agree that more people have been killed in the name of "Christianity" than for any other cause. It is hypocritical of us to not understand this. That is what fear and ignorance looks like. Thank you for your post.
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Akhe Abdullah
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Quote Akhe Abdullah Replybullet Posted: 02 August 2010 at 1:45am
As salamu alaikum.Hasan.JazakAllah Kheiran for your reply.May Allah Bless you and your family.
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