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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
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seekshidayath
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Quote seekshidayath Replybullet Posted: 21 February 2010 at 9:01am
Don't try to be clever Haris.I want direct answers to all of my questions ?

Quran is the final and complete revelation of Allah swt, revealed over Prophet Muhammad. Hope this is loud and clear to you.

By following the sunnah, i.e the way and sayings of Prophet Muhammad {sallal lahu alayhi wasallam}, am following the command of Allah swt. Hope even this is clear.

When under different context, a hadith contradicts with Qur'an, we are taught to take up Quran. Okay !!

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Quote Full of Hopes Replybullet Posted: 21 February 2010 at 9:32am

 بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

 

اللهم صلي على نبيا محمد و على آله و صحبه و سلم

 

  OK, Haris: I was not here but I saw that you leave the questions without answers and be back to your wrong point that we want to say Quraan is incomplete, please answer the questions logically one by one and do not ignore them.

 

   1- The difference is that we believe that this Quraan is the best book and the complete and the never changed. BUT Quraan tells us that we MUST FOLLOW the messenger of Allah, we followed it, so that we got the full understanding of our religion. While you say you stick to Quraan then pick what you like and reject what doesn't go with your theory. It is not the book that we understand ONLY, it is the whole religion that we need to understand.

 

  2- Let me tell you something in the Arabic language since called: Balagha and Eijaz: if you describe a script with this, it means that the author is VERY skillful, that he can say many meanings in a VERY few strong words. This is the word and the case for Quraan.

  Allah wanted for this Quraan to be in BRIEF and in a VERY strong language.

   In all 23years, we have just around 600pages!!

   Then this Quraan was not revealed at once. Just together. NO.. It was revealed according to the need and events in the life of the best people in the world. So that, they kept the aya with the event from the hadith. Then you must be not know any reason for the revealing of Quraan!!

 

   Then Allah told us: this prophet peace be upon him, is with us to explain to us the book. The word: يبين  means to show and make it clear.   

 

  Because Allah wanted for the Quraan to be a VERY brief but STRONG. It is NOT a book of details as it was a challenge for the Arabs at that time. They used to have the STRONGEST language and use to compete who can say the very many meanings with very few words. And now you see, so many meanings and rules can be taken from a one line very short aya. How can we get those meanings of this so STRONG and BREIF language if we are narrow minded? Where did you get their meanings from?

 If you reject the prophet's صلى الله عليه و سلم  explanation, then you accept other human ignorant people explanations!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 Allah is GREAT!! You say lies to hadith and then you take explanation of Quraan from other sources. Then do not explain.. just understand!!!!!!!!

  

 3- And, those scholars that you said wrote hadith started from the Sahabah, then millions of SCHOLARS worked so hard on Hadith. They spent their lives even to tell people about the lying narrators and the good ones. If the whole Umma during the best previous time accept this and agreed on them, then, how can we come in the poor time, far form the strong pure Arabic language they used to have!!! when we see Muslims with no knowledge!!! And with weak Imaan!!! Then reject what those first people who gave their lives to do!!! They used to travel the miles and miles just to take a VERY short one line hadith!!! Then comes the poor and say they lied!!and reject what those best ALL agreed on.

 

 3- The hadithes told about the signs of the last day and they all appeared.. then how can this happen if it is just lies.

 

 4- The hadith told us about some good benefits and dangers of things then the new science discover this just now, then how can this be happen?

 

 5- We took the way to pray, the money to pay for Zakah, and many others things, you need to read my article again to see. How do you reply to this. Again here not through PMs.

 

 BUT: You do not answer the questions. You just  go around in circles and run from the questions with general sentences.  How come!! you believe in Quaarn, the Quraan says follow the prophet, peace be upon him????

 Then you need more opened mind and knowledge in Quraan, cause this understanding will drive you away from it and not close to it. Brother study Arabic as well, VERY well, this will help you more.

   YOu think it is good to reject hadith and that it will make you stronger while in fact it will just make you ignornt about your religion. Confused 
 
  And please do us this favor pick all our questions and with numbers answer everyone, especially those of brother Peacemaker and sister Seekshidayath.

 

 

 



Edited by Full of Hopes - 21 February 2010 at 9:46am
And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)
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Quote martha Replybullet Posted: 21 February 2010 at 1:49pm
'When under different context, a hadith contradicts with Qur'an, we are taught to take up Quran. Okay !! '

I don't know which is a good hadith or not. Am I just supposed to rely and trust on people ? And if the Quran is complete then I still don't see we need anything else.
Sure, Muhammed(pbuh) left us his example..we should try to follow that, but this is completely different to following the commandments of Allah.

All scholars are different. There should be no sects in Islam. Isn't that so?

some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
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Quote Full of Hopes Replybullet Posted: 21 February 2010 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by martha

'When under different context, a hadith contradicts with Qur'an, we are taught to take up Quran. Okay !! '
 
 

There is NO contradiction between Hadith and Quraan AT ALL. WE say this when our weak knowledge do not really understand. So this just appears to some with LACK of good knowledge to see the relation between a certain aya and hadith.

 

 Hey sister!! be sure I do not mean you with anything here. I am just telling about the whole issue in general,, so smileSmile


  I don't know which is a good hadith or not.
 
 This is what you need to learn from the BOOKS of the SAHEEH (strong) hadithes. The previous scholars/sahabah did the whole work for us. WE just need to study it with souls.
  
 Am I just supposed to rely and trust on people ?
These are not any people who talked without knowledge like many of us, these days. These learned and spent lives in this then talked. These published the main resources about the knowledge of FULL understanding of Islamic studies and history. 
 
  And if the Quran is complete then I still don't see we need anything else.
 
 THis is the narrow mind/way of thinking. We need (Quraan+hadith+books of Islamic knwoldge) to understnad the religion FULLY. Sister we need to understnad Islam FULLY not ONLY Quraan!!!!!
 
  Sure, Muhammed(pbuh) left us his example..we should try to follow that, but this is completely different to following the commandments of Allah.
 
 NOT ATT ALL.
 
  EVERYTHING FROM THE MESSENGER صلى الله عليه و سلم   HE TOOK FROM ALLAH. He did not lie to us or add accoring to his desires.  Allah joined these two in Quraan in many verses.. Allah said: OBEY ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER. And another Aya says: He who obeys the messsnger of Allah, means He obeys Allah.

All scholars are different. There should be no sects in Islam. Isn't that so?
 
 Do not worry your head with this dieffernce among scholars. They differ accoridng to their levels of knowledge, their way of understanding, the Sahbah they took from and many other things. BUT WE as we all not scholars, we just follow them. SO get rid of this idea that gives you headache, cause we all are not their level of knowldge nor the level to judge and see who has the strongest proof.. so, just stcik to a good ONE scholar and take from him, then Allah will be pleased on you and aceept that you took His religion from his people..
 
 
 Allah Hafiz
 With my love and respect to sister MarthaStar
 


Edited by Full of Hopes - 21 February 2010 at 5:09pm
And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)
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Quote seekshidayath Replybullet Posted: 21 February 2010 at 6:56pm
As Salamu Alaikum sis Martha Smile
 
Originally posted by martha

'When under different context, a hadith contradicts with Qur'an, we are taught to take up Quran. Okay !! '

I don't know which is a good hadith or not. Am I just supposed to rely and trust on people ? .
 
Its easy to recongnise if a hadith is authentic or not. Sister, insha Allah, shall send you how to see the authenticity of hadith.
 
And if the Quran is complete then I still don't see we need anything else
 
Sister, not all the Qur'an {word-word} shud be understood by hadith. To get proper and good understanding of few ayaat from Qur'an, hadith is needed. Kindly note sister that by following hadith we are infact obeying the command of Allah from Qur'an

Sure, Muhammed(pbuh) left us his example..we should try to follow that, but this is completely different to following the commandments of Allah.

All scholars are different. There should be no sects in Islam. Isn't that so?
Not all scholars are different sis. Anyways, yes there shud be no sect in Islam. We are not accountable to Allah swt based on the sect we belong to. Infact Allah swt commanded us in Qur'an that we shud not get divided into sects. Prophet Muhammad {pbuh} in his farewell speech said that he is leaving two things to us and we are to hold them. Else we get divided. The two things mentioned were - Qur'an and Sunnah.
 

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Quote martha Replybullet Posted: 21 February 2010 at 10:52pm
Seeks,

It is not easy to recognise a good hadith.

If Allah commanded us not to divide into sects then we are indeed accountable if we do.


You must remember that for 6 years I had no help from my skanky husband. He would not let me attend any masjid for anything. Prayer, he said, was to be done in the home. I was not allowed to speak with any sister without being interigated. He made sure I was followed, he abused me regularly and to add insult to injury he said he did not care if I was muslim or not. ANd this is just for starters. SO, nOt exactly a shining example of a good muslim was he? ANd I did not know enough about Islam to pick a good husband on my own. Maybe I was naive, at fault, or just plain st**id on that account, but he will and has been rebuked by Allah for his lack of guidance with me. He has lost everything.
Surah 18:32-36 and 18:42-43 come to mind. He fits that so well.

So, I didn't exactly start well with Islam. Please remember, however, that I was muslim only by a few months when I met him. BLind faith and a limited understanding of the Quran was how it all started. (I have serious doubts if I am actually a muslim or not as nothing was explained to me when I took shahada. I did not fit in with the 7 requirements to be muslim) So, until that point of meeting him I was doing my best..attending classes at the masjid and enquiring. Unfortunately for me that was not enough to see me through the next 6years.

Allah knows all things..He will reward me for being a good wife under the most extreme circumstances. NOw I do not live near any muslim whatsoever. The nearest masjid is 20+ miles and I am unable to get there.

The forum has been my only lifeline. I have had varying responses from various members. Many have been extremely kind to me, some have suggested I have not been a good muslim. Hardly surprising then is it?

Allah is the most important in my life. He always has been, He always will be. If He had not been I would have been dead long ago.

So, I do not need conflicting ideas on hadiths or sunnahs that come from scholars often of dubious nature. It is how I see it.

BUt thanks seeks anyway :)


some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
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Quote haris30432 Replybullet Posted: 21 February 2010 at 11:55pm
Peace,
 
Full of hope you say that the hadith never contradicts the Quran.You should probably go through the hadiths once again and see what you are talking about here.There are many contradictions.And ive tried posting them before but they were deleted claiming that they were from non islamic sources.Plus it seems like Seekshidayath has a different stand on the hadith .She posted the following on a christian brother's question
 
Are there any current Islamic beliefs that supersede the Qur'an? (e.g., the Hadith)
 
No, no kind of Islamic belief does supercede the Qur'an. When a hadith used in different contexts does contradict with Qur'an, we take up the Qur'an. As said, by following hadith we are infact following Qur'an.
 
 
So from the above i see that she does acknowldge the fact that there can be contradictions in the hadith with the Quran.And your position is different.This is why i said i need  a clear stand from you with regards to the Quran.We are not talking hadith here.We are talking about the Quran coz thats what we both believe in.Since you still are not taking up the challenge and declaring your stand on the Quran's completeness,there is no point in me trying to answer the questions.There is no debate here as far as im concerned.You dont have a solid postion on the Quran.Why dont you just declare that the Quran is incomplete and has no details?.Since you are reluctant to do that,we should put this matter to rest here.To you is your faith and to me is mine.
 
Peace!
 
ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!
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Quote Hayfa Replybullet Posted: 22 February 2010 at 10:15am
Hey Martha,

What are the "7 requirements to be muslim?" Are you talking on "basic beliefs?

Since there are 1.5 billion Muslims I found it easiest to use people I trust to find out information. And I don't use nonMuslim sources for sure.  This is how to avoid dubious sources.

And for me, I know that if something is part of Islam that is "hard" for me to "accept" i take it as me vs. the religion. I am a product of my life and so I will interpret things through that prism.  For instance, putting pictures of people up or statues etc is discouraged.  I don't think I am about to worship them, but OTHERS do. So hence the discouragement. Same with "mixing" of men and women, I won't sleep with them, but others DO. 

And there are actually very few things where things are not in agreement by the majority of Muslims. Now they may not act upon it, say drinking, but the agreement is fairly universal. In fact there are more agreements then non agreements. Typically within the "sects" has to do with "post" Sahaba time.. who is ruling etc. For instance some small groups go off tangent and follow another "prophet" after Prophet Mohammed (SAWS).

And if you read about disagreements sometimes they are on such obscure stuff, like the one in million situation that the arguments are often to argue for argue sakes.

There are very reputable sites that offer very good information and have reputable scholars. 

And if there is a particular area of Islam you want to improve for yourself there are ways to do that. Say you want to improve prayer or knowledge on history. There are classes you can take online.

May Allah reward you for your efforts.

Hayfa

 


When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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