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Prophets - Jesus
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Prophets - Jesus
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Topic: 'Niño Dios"
    Posted: 25 December 2009 at 6:02pm
I live here in south Texas and frequently travel to Mexico. I happen to see some of the Catholic practices that help me understand their belief system. There are similarities in what we look for in life and in the hereafter, and there are huge differences in how we see God.
One of these Catholic practices that puzzles me is their depiction of Mary(pbuh) as, according to their traditions has appeared in various places around the world, in particular in Latin America. Even more puzzling is the the ways Jesus is depicted.
Recently, before Christmas I happen to pass by a business that seem busier  than the rest. Upon my inquiry, I saw people buying what looked like a doll lying on his back. A baby doll, very similar to one my daughter plays with. One difference I noticed was that all these figurines looked exactly alike and both hands and one foot raised up. There were cloths hats, socks and other accessories  people were buying as well to  decorate the figurine doll. I was told that this is "Niño Dios" or " baby God"
During Christmas celebrations Catholics decorate in their houses the scene of "Nativity" when Jesus was born, and they place this doll/figurine as "baby God" as they mark the birth of Jesus, who they believe to be "son of God, and/or God."
For a Catholic it may seem nothing out of norm, just part of their worship, but for me as a Muslim, who believes in God that is not born, nor dies. God that does not beget nor He is begotten, and that we believe its forbidden to make figurines or images of God and prophets, it seemed way out of norm.

The Protestants do believe pretty much the same as Catholics with some differences, but they, or I should say the ones I know do not make any figurines or statues of anyone in their worship. And they are known as Christians in Latin America. There are many Catholics who are now leaving their belief and  becoming Christians and they regard these Catholic practices as Idol worshiping.

Hasan





Edited by honeto - 25 December 2009 at 7:18pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Pati
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Quote Pati Replybullet Posted: 03 January 2010 at 6:13am
Happy New Year Honeto!
 
Well, as Catholic, I remember my whole life waiting for the Christmas time, because of the feeling you get during this period.
 
I remember when we were singing songs to worship God (Christmas special songs called "Villancicos" in Spanish). Everyplace becomes special during Christmas.
 
At home, we were placing what in Spain we call "Belén" (yes, it's Bethelem but in Spanish): the whole family performing something close (or what we think is close) to the real environment of Virgin Mary and Saint Joseph when Jesus borned.
 
We use the same figurines than my parents used lot of years back. Sometimes the size is bigger, and other times it's smaller, but you can be sure that it's a very special moment in every Cathilic family (at least in Spain) to perform the Belén. We sing, we pray, we explain to the children the story and we show how beautiful the story is.
 
I understand that for you as Muslim it's difficult to understand it, as far as Islam is against representation of God or Prophets, but it's a very old costume we have, and the meaning is bigger that a simple representation. Is a way to unify the family around something religious. It's really special, believe me.
 
But when it's becoming just a business matter, I hate it. I don't understand the people who are spending dozens of euros per year in this kind of figurines, because the special  thing of it is to use the same every year, and to remember when you were putting it with family members who already passed away, or are living outside. That's something I do every year, remembering my dead uncle (descanse en paz), or my brother who is living outside and working in something that doesn't allow him to spend Christmas here since few years back.
 
I would like to explain you it in better way, I am sorry. But believe me, it's not a business, it's a deep believe, and we are just celebrating Jesus born.
 
Regards,
Patricia
No God wants the killing, but the peace.
The weapons are carried by people, not by religions.
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 05 January 2010 at 10:10am
Hi Pati,
I understand how dear and romantic it seems and can be what we grow up with regardless of its being right or wrong.
One question that I ask my /catholic friends and ask you is that how you live by this tradition of making figurines, physical representation and statues of Saints, Mary and Jesus (pbut) kneeling and bowing down to them and at the same time hold the ten commandments sacred and holy, where the first few commands clearly forbid such actions.
Also, I would like to know how this is any different than what Hindus do when they kneel and bow down to the what they claim to be representation of the holy.

Please tell me what your personal understanding is Pati, of figurines or statues used in Catholic worship, in particular to what is referred as " Nino Dios" or the kissing, kneeling, and bowing to "Baby God".

Thanks for your input.

Hasan




Edited by honeto - 05 January 2010 at 10:14am
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Pati Replybullet Posted: 05 January 2010 at 12:15pm
Hi Hasan,
 
Sorry, but I cannot agree with you in what you said, that the first commandment is forbiding the physical representation of the people. What it's forbiding is to worship them, and normally we are not doing.
 
When in my family, we finish placing everything in the Belén, we pray to God, and only to Him, asking him, first of all, to take care of our relatives and friends who already were called by Him, and secondly for forgiveness and for his protection in every moment of our lives. But we are not praying to the figurine which represents Jesus, or María or José, we are praying to the Creator of all of them/us.
 
By my side, I have to recognise that I don't like the Churchs too much, mainly the churchs which are full of representations of Christs, Saints, Virgins... I don't feel confortable with that. But I have at the same time to accept that I cry every Holy Week in my birthtown, when I see what we call "procesiones", where we take images representing part of Jesus Calvary while praying and signing old songs dedicated to them. But that's the same, we are worshiping the Creator, God, we are just remembering through the images what the Humanity did with Jesus, His best creation.
 
But I have never kissed any image, or praying to, nor my family did. We are against this actually, and we believe that it's not necessary to go to the Church daily, or to tell our sins to the pastor, or to have the house full of religious images. We believe that the Faith is something between God and ourselves (and we are lot of Catholics thinking this way).
 
I don't know if I already answered your question... I hope so.
 
Kind regards,
Patricia
 
No God wants the killing, but the peace.
The weapons are carried by people, not by religions.
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 15 January 2010 at 7:51pm
a

Edited by honeto - 15 January 2010 at 8:04pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 15 January 2010 at 8:03pm
Originally posted by Pati

Hi Hasan,
 
Sorry, but I cannot agree with you in what you said, that the first commandment is forbiding the physical representation of the people. What it's forbiding is to worship them, and normally we are not doing.
 
When in my family, we finish placing everything in the Belén, we pray to God, and only to Him, asking him, first of all, to take care of our relatives and friends who already were called by Him, and secondly for forgiveness and for his protection in every moment of our lives. But we are not praying to the figurine which represents Jesus, or María or José, we are praying to the Creator of all of them/us.
 
By my side, I have to recognise that I don't like the Churchs too much, mainly the churchs which are full of representations of Christs, Saints, Virgins... I don't feel confortable with that. But I have at the same time to accept that I cry every Holy Week in my birthtown, when I see what we call "procesiones", where we take images representing part of Jesus Calvary while praying and signing old songs dedicated to them. But that's the same, we are worshiping the Creator, God, we are just remembering through the images what the Humanity did with Jesus, His best creation.
 
But I have never kissed any image, or praying to, nor my family did. We are against this actually, and we believe that it's not necessary to go to the Church daily, or to tell our sins to the pastor, or to have the house full of religious images. We believe that the Faith is something between God and ourselves (and we are lot of Catholics thinking this way).
 
I don't know if I already answered your question... I hope so.
 
Kind regards,
Patricia
 



Hi Pati,
good to hear that you don't feel good around those practices of the Catholic Church. Its natural, what God has put in us as our natural belief, plus God has guided us with His guidance throughout humanity and last time in form of the Quran.
They just seem wrong, when I see Catholics bowing and kissing the feet and kneeling to man made statues of "baby God" and others. It seems no different than other Pagan beliefs like Hinduism for example.
Also, the first few commandments actually forbid representation of any living thing. Here is the quote from the Bible:
KJV Exodus 20:
 "3
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

 4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;"

Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Marine Guide Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2010 at 5:51am
Lamp Mmmm interesting when people create images they feel the need to worship them, according to the bible it is forbidden to worship any image or idol, but people have always had a need to make physical representations of what they cannot see or understand.


Edited by Marine Guide - 11 November 2010 at 4:19am
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