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Saladin
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Quote Saladin Replybullet Posted: 27 December 2009 at 8:19pm
Originally posted by martha

JihadX,

...I will never forget the Beslan seige in Chechnya. HOw sisters can kill hundreds of little children is totally beyond me.

...The black widows of the Beslan Seige were not true muslimahs despite wearing the hijab. They had their own personal grievances. THey will not see Jannah for their evil deeds. If you ask why I say that then it is really very obvious. You don't have to be a scholar to understand it.

...though obviously not in the case of these moronic women.

 
 
And BTW...
 
(27:65) Say: "None in the heavens or on the earth has knowledge of the Unseen save Allah...."
 
 
'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'
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Chrysalis
 
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Quote Chrysalis Replybullet Posted: 28 December 2009 at 1:58am
Originally posted by JihadX

Niqab is more of sunnah for women anyways. Not wearing even hijab is just shameful and immodest. < id="gwProxy" ="">< ="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" ="">


Only Allah can judge us Bro. Smile
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Hayfa
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Quote Hayfa Replybullet Posted: 28 December 2009 at 7:12am
Salaams

Martha how can you say:THey will not see Jannah for their evil deeds. If you ask why I say that then it is really very obvious. You don't have to be a scholar to understand it.


How do WE know? I ma surprised you would see this? And remember they took hostages and the Russian govt fired on the school.  Who exactly killed whom is quite debatable.
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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martha
 
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Quote martha Replybullet Posted: 28 December 2009 at 11:01am
Walaikum asalam,

We are taught, are we not, that wrongdoers do not get to Jannah? I am just re-enforcing that. I also firmly believe it too with regards to this topic.

It is irrelevant who actually killed the children. The muslims went in with the intention of murder, with bombs strapped to their bodies, with feet on detonators.

I am aware of the grievances these people had, that the Russians knew about it etc etc, but no one can say the Russians told them to actually go ahead and beseige the school.

This is not a case of saying I know what Allah knows. Of course I do not. But black is black, white is white, there is no grey area for this as far as I am concerned.




some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
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Hayfa
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Quote Hayfa Replybullet Posted: 28 December 2009 at 2:13pm
We are taught, are we not, that wrongdoers do not get to Jannah?
 
 
Yes but you are saying YOU know for SURE That THEY all those people are going to hell???? Even if we take your argument.. we don't know. They may have been mentally ill for all we know.. WE DON't know.
 
I have to say Martha it is unusual to hear from you this . As you know Allah is MOST merciful.  You often seem eager to condemn any Muslim you perceive did something wrong.  When in fact as Muslims we should do our best to give each other the benefit of the doubt.  And without FULL information it is never our place to say anyone is going to hell... this is just as dangerous as many other acts.
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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wisdomseeker
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Quote wisdomseeker Replybullet Posted: 28 December 2009 at 5:16pm
Assalamu alaikum,

Well..I think we are none to decide who is going to hell and who is going to heaven. I am not saying that what those muslims did was right....but what they did, how they did and why they did is a matter between them and Allah, when it comes to the matters of this world, we may use our sense of judgment and all the available evidences and then arrive at a decision or conclusion about that particular event,.....but when it is about an eternal judgment, that of the last day, of heaven and hell...then we can just not say who goes to heaven and who goes to hell....that is between that person and Allah. We do not know and hence must not arrive at conclusions.

Can we tell for sure, if we are going to heaven? No we cannot, if one does, then one blasphemes....coz he is trying to claim knowledge to that, which is with Allah alone.

May Allah guide us all surely He guides whom He wills.
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Chrysalis
 
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Quote Chrysalis Replybullet Posted: 29 December 2009 at 1:17am
Originally posted by wisdomseeker

Assalamu alaikum,

Well..I think we are none to decide who is going to hell and who is going to heaven. I am not saying that what those muslims did was right....but what they did, how they did and why they did is a matter between them and Allah, when it comes to the matters of this world, we may use our sense of judgment and all the available evidences and then arrive at a decision or conclusion about that particular event,.....but when it is about an eternal judgment, that of the last day, of heaven and hell...then we can just not say who goes to heaven and who goes to hell....that is between that person and Allah. We do not know and hence must not arrive at conclusions.

Can we tell for sure, if we are going to heaven? No we cannot, if one does, then one blasphemes....coz he is trying to claim knowledge to that, which is with Allah alone.


Good points !!! Infact reminds me of some ahadith - even Prophet Muhammad used to say about himself, that I shall not go into Jannah except with Allah's mercy ! subhanAllah.

Also, just like we should not be saying whether someone is going to hell - I have read that we should not also say that.. "so & so is going to heaven" - bcz that is like saying we have knowledge of the unseen, which only Allah has. Once read a hadith (which was sahih as far as i remember) that once a person died in battle, and the sahaba were saying So & So is definitely going straight to Jannah, he fought so bravely. To which Prophet Muhammad said, how do you know for sure? I was just told that while he was lying in the battlefield, he could'nt stand the pain and killed himself. And suicide is haraam in islam. !!! Cry


"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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martha
 
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Quote martha Replybullet Posted: 29 December 2009 at 3:09am
Walaikum asalam,

wisdomseeker, I hear what you are saying and you have explained it really well. My comment that these people would not see Jannah..I did not say I would decide that.

sister Hayfa..yes sure, Allah is most merciful. He is also just. He has to be because if He was not then all of us can excuse ourselves of our bad deeds. Allah can and will forgive who He choses, but for those judged guilty or at fault then there is also a punishment. Maybe I do not explain myself well these days. BUt It is unlikely that all the people involved in the Beslan seige had mental problems as the act was premeditated. BUt I agree that in certain instances people can be mentally unstable and interpret things wrong. So these people we should help if we can. And ALlah will judge them accordingly.
Hayfa, you said I often condemn other muslims. No, I am critical of muslims. Many times this is because we should not be so judgemental of non-muslims and should be patient. I have no need to be critical of Christians and we should help them understand about Islam,for those that reject it we can feel sorry for them. BUt it is not wrong to point out errors of our own brothers and sisters. So..it is not a case of condemning. Instead I would see it as helping. If we have Islam then we have fewer excuses to get it wrong.
Abraham Lincoln said 'he has a right to criticise who has a heart to help' So I do love my brothers and sisters in Islam. If I did not then I would bother less with my replies here. Of course people matter to me, but Allah is also just and I trust in Him most of all. Perhaps this is why I worded my previous post in that way.

Sister Chrysalis...I am grateful to you for your words. BUt I am disturbed when our brothers and sisters in Islam call non-muslims infidels and say they will go to hell. Do we try to correct them? We are no different to anyone in this life no matter what religion we follow. Yet I am corrected here for my comments it seems because I was critical of muslims not christians? It is all complex.

The main issue it seems is my own personal view? I guess we don't need to worry ourselves on that.
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