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Basics of Islam
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Basics of Islam
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Noah
 
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Quote Noah Replybullet Posted: 24 July 2005 at 4:30pm
Transliteration Wa-in aradtumu istibdala zawjin makana zawjin waataytum ihdahunna qintaran fala ta/khuthoo minhu shay-an ata/khuthoonahu buhtanan wa-ithman mubeenan
Y.Ali But if ye decide to take one wife in place of another, even if ye had given the latter a whole treasure for dower, Take not the least bit of it back: Would ye take it by slander and manifest wrong?
R.Khalifa If you wish to marry another wife, in place of your present wife, and you had given any of them a great deal, you shall not take back anything you had given her. Would you take it fraudulently, maliciously, and sinfully?
Pickthal And if ye wish to exchange one wife for another and ye have given unto one of them a sum of money (however great), take nothing from it. Would ye take it by the way of calumny and open wrong?
Shakir And if you wish to have (one) wife in place of another and you have given one of them a heap of gold, then take not from it anything; would you take it by slandering (her) and (doing her) manifest wrong?
Literal And if you wanted exchanging (to exchange) a spouse (in) place (of a) spouse, and you (P) gave one of them (F) a ton , so do not take from it a thing, do you take it wrongfully/slanderfully, and an evident sin/crime?

Peace
Noah


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Arabian
 
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Quote Arabian Replybullet Posted: 24 July 2005 at 9:37pm
Noah,

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this in the case of a divorce?  You're leaving one woman and taking another woman for whatever reason; maybe you realized that you could not love both equally?

Really the only thing being said here is if you which to exchange one wife for another then do not take of the gifted dower.  We are not told exactly why you would be exchanging that wife.

With Peace,
Muhammad
...the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder, and We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?
(The Quran, 21:30)
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aisha
 
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Quote aisha Replybullet Posted: 25 July 2005 at 3:47am
salaam,yeah that seems like divorce procedure,i think thats different to a man wanting more wives,i think a man who does have more wives should definatly treat them the same in love and wealth,if he is taking a second wife because he doesnt love the first wife,then maybe he should divorce the first wife,before he marries the second,i think for a man to take more wives there should be a reason other than just having to wives(twice the fun) if you know what i mean.
aisha
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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 25 July 2005 at 5:38am

Polygamy is not a horrible institution as long as all parties are willing participants.  As a Mormon, we too are faced with this issue often.  We believe polygamy to be morally okay, if practiced right.  However, we are prohibited to practice it due to events in the late 19th century here in Utah.  Some excommunicated sects of the church still practice this, but they practice a perverted version forcing child brides and marriages to men much older.  We also have a problem with them casting out their teenage sons so there is no competition for the women.  This is where Polygamy becomes wrong, when men forget why there is a need for it and they use it for their own sick purposes. 

If practiced right, the first wife should be okay with the husband taking a second wife.  The second wife would understand she is equal to the first wife by law and the husband should treat them as such.  Neither wife should be subservient to the other.  And neither should be made to feel less. 

My husband and I have joked often about the issue, since I haven't always been a member and non mormons love to make jokes about the practice of Polygamy.  I cannot have children.  After all our trials, adoption will be the only answer.  But an adoption can cost between 10-40,000 USD.  In a Polygamist society, this would not be an issue.  He could marry a second wife and have his children through her.  Unfortunately, that will not be the case. 

Of course, with multiple wives, you always worry about the Sarah/Hagar fight when one is blessed and the other is not.  I mean, that's what led all of us to be divided nations instead of one brotherhood. 

One last comment, in 2002 or 2003, I read an article in Newsweek about a man who was from Africa.  He was a Muslim and had received refugee status with the US for him and his family.  There was a catch, though all were given status, he had two wives.  He was told, before they could get to the US, he had to divorce one of his two wives.  His first wife had given him 3 sons, all still very young.  His second wife, whom he had only married within the last year, was pregnant with their first child.  Which wife was he to choose?  He went with his first wife only because she had 3 children and she was his greater responsibility.  He loved his second wife and did not want to have to do it, but he must.  So, this poor woman had to come to a foreign country with no one to care for her and her unborn child.  I found this article heartbreaking and it brought up many issues concerning legal polygamy in other countries and the illegality of it here in the United States.  (Strange that Gay Marriage gets so much support, but a loving family must be broke up for the "moral" betterment of the nation.)

Angela

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aisha
 
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Quote aisha Replybullet Posted: 25 July 2005 at 10:33am
unfortunatly there are sad occasions like this that happen,i think what you said is right angela,polygramy is good if used right.its a shame your husband cannot use ploygram,i feel for you both.inshallah i hope things turn for the best.
aisha
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jibreel
 
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Quote jibreel Replybullet Posted: 25 July 2005 at 12:25pm
Peace all

There is no evidence that a brother has to even tell the first wife if he has
taken a 2nd bride.

This also should be islamic reasons, like Piety and support for each other,
and not because she is a hot babe.

This is as far as i understand it .
The Qur'an is the only book on the planet that states how many wives you
can have, 4., and no other book and i mean the Bible has ever stated this,
Solomon (PBUH) had hundreds of wives., its also known that Kings used to
have hundreds if the least 20 mistresses or more.
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Noah
 
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Quote Noah Replybullet Posted: 25 July 2005 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by Arabian

Noah,

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this in the case of a divorce?  You're leaving one woman and taking another woman for whatever reason; maybe you realized that you could not love both equally?

Really the only thing being said here is if you which to exchange one wife for another then do not take of the gifted dower.  We are not told exactly why you would be exchanging that wife.

With Peace,
Muhammad


Peace brother

"Marry off those who are single among you and those of your male and female servants who are righteous. If they are poor, God will enrich them of his grace, for God is bounteous and all-knowing."

Pay close attention to the fact that it says male and female, so this verse is for everybody, as men cannot marry men. So the rule is, marry those unmarried. If a man has a wife, he is not unmarried.

so youre right this verse

If you wish to marry another wife, in place of your present wife, and you had given any of them a great deal, you shall not take back anything you had given her. Would you take it fraudulently, maliciously, and sinfully?

is about divorce. From the wife youre with, before you take on another wife, as outlined in the first verse. It does not say wifes, or one of your wifes. The verse strongly on its own suggest that there is only one wife to deal with at all.

Im willing to debate that polygamy is ONLY allowed if there is orphans involved and it is to protect them and their mothers, and for no other purpose at all.

"You shall hand over to the ORPHANS* their rightful properties. Do not substitute the bad for the good, and do not consume their properties by combining them with yours. This would be a gross injustice. If you fear that you will not be equitable towards the ORPHANS, then you may marry their mothers. You may marry two, three, or four. If you fear lest you become unfair, then you shall be content with only one, or with what you already have. Additionally, you are thus more likely to avoid financial hardship." (4/2-3)

"They consult you concerning women: say, "GOD enlightens you regarding them, as recited for you in the scripture. The mothers of ORPHANS* that you wish to marry but do not give them their due dowries, you shall be just. The rights of young boys must also be protected. You shall treat the orphans equitably. Whatever good you do, GOD is fully aware thereof." (4/127)

"Do not give those who are immature the money which God has ENTRUSTED you with. You shall provide for them from it and cloth them, and say to them what is just. You shall test the orphans when they reach puberty. As soon as you find them mature enough, GIVE THEM THEIR PROPERTY..." (4/5-6)

You must be the GUARDIAN to these Orphans and caretaker to their inheritance BEFORE even considering Polygamy. It is not just for a man to just pick children off the street and claim that he will marry their mother. The man must be the Guardian to the children appointed by their deceased father or because they (the Orphans) are from his blood i.e

"You can NEVER be equitable in dealing with more than one wife, no matter how hard you try. Therefore, do not be so biased as to leave one of them hanging. If you correct this situation and maintain righteousness, GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful." (4/129)

1. Orphans placed in our guardianship are to be treated fairly.
2. If we fear biased-ness or unfairness in treatment, we MAY marry their mother.
3. We MUST pay their mother her dowry as in the case of a normal marriage.
4. We MUST NOT be biased in our dealings with either wife.

So to me it is clear as daylight, that this is just another sign of love from our Rabb, alhamdulilah. It is to protect the weakest in any society, the orphans. Nothing else, because we cannot be equally fair to 2 wifes, as much as we would love to. Not even when we marry to protect the children.

Peace
Noah







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Noah
 
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Quote Noah Replybullet Posted: 25 July 2005 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by aisha

salaam,yeah that seems like divorce procedure,i think thats different to a man wanting more wives,i think a man who does have more wives should definatly treat them the same in love and wealth,if he is taking a second wife because he doesnt love the first wife,then maybe he should divorce the first wife,before he marries the second,i think for a man to take more wives there should be a reason other than just having to wives(twice the fun) if you know what i mean.


Peace sis

I hear you, i just always figured it would be twice the amount of work, for the same pleasure hehe

Peace
Noah
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