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SteppeNomad
Senior Member
Joined: 08 July 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 113 |
![]() Topic: Cultural Muslims???Posted: 07 November 2009 at 12:03pm |
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Salam I wanted to share something with all of you. I dont know how many of you want to hear me out, but Insallah I know some real brothers without issues will understand what im trying to get at hopefully. I am Muslim Alhamdulillah, Insallah die as such, but I wanted to talk about this issue of culture and identity. Yes ive been going on a lot about it lately, you must see it in a lot of my posts, because I see some people with serious issues of identity around me. I want to ask these Muslims, who blame culture for all there miseries, why do you live? What exactly are you? or is it you just want to be an attention seeker and a ghost as and when it suits you? Ive never understood this impression Muslim have, especially in the West among some converts and South Asians mainly by the looks of it, but generally speaking applies to most people here, I am not discriminating, just telling people what I think of my experience, you may disagree if you wish and please do contribute what you think. Anyway, I know Islam is perfect, but by acknowledging, loving, keeping hold of my culture and identity, does that make me less of a Muslim? Am I doing something contrary to Islamic teachings? I am not claiming superiority over any race, nore am I claiming cultural superiority, however why is liking ones culture, history, past, grandfather such an issue for people? Especially Muslims of most the people. Do not get me wrong, I am not endorsing nationalism or tribalism, but I think loving ones own is different from hating others who are different. As in, I think one can be happy with the community, land, country, social structure they belong to without having a slight feel of dislike to another. I would like to ask these people who hate culture so much, and claim they want to be “Just Muslim”, do they never look at the Islamic history they are so proud of and see that even the greatest Muslims never gave there identity up? Do these people think Islam came to destroy culture? Did the pervious Arabs, Persians, Turks, Berbers, Africans, South Asians etc give up there culture? I dont think so. I think they just gave up there ignorance, us Turks stopped building mountains of skulls every time we conquered our enemies. I dont know the exact ignorant practices that were among Arabs, Persians, Africans, South Asians, and dont want to say, so none of our brothers get offended, but am I wrong in saying, it was just the wrong practices, inhumane practices that were given up? And the beautiful culture we carried on endorsed and developed? Did Arabs reject poetry, the camel, story telling and trying to be something there not? Did Persians abandon there beautiful arts, culture, buildings and try be something there not? Did Turks abandon there lifestyle around warfare, horses and flags to try be something there not? Did the Chinese leave inventing and there lovely dresses? Did Africans or Asians give up there beautiful languages, colours and way of life? Did Allah create us to be something we are not? Then why do we have people trying to be something they are not? Why do we have black trying to be white and white trying to be black, or brown and yellow etc. Were we made to be a boring monotone society with no differences and colour, with no different way of life, no different sounds, no different likes and tastes? Why cant people just be who they are instead of suffering serious identity issues, people who suffer and think they are something else because they know one or two words of that language, or they are 1/5 of whatever, be yourself! As Allah created you. Am I against mixing and matching? No, I think it is amazing, we should mix and match both culturally and racially, through marriage etc. There are many such example countries, Im Turkish, I love my history, I love my peoples Nomadic past, I love the way they swept across Siberia and Central Asia into Europe, Persia, China, South Asia, Middle East etc, I love the difference in my peoples dresses, sounds, way of life. My people have had wars in every part of the world, we every peoples, do i hate them? No, most are now my brothers in Islam and Humanity, however will I give up my dresses, my language, culture and tastes? No, because Islam did not come to destroy such things, however will i give up ignorance then yes.
Ive always like what ive seen of brothers from Anyway long story short, cant people just be who they are? Instead of begging to be people they are not. Because your skin colour aint going to change, nore is your skull structure, nore is your fathers race is going to change overnight, nore are people going to call you what you are not behind closed doors. You are what Allah created you, be happy with it instead of begging off others and choosing yourselves masters. Cant people just be good Muslims without rejecting there second identity? Dont you remember it was your "cultural" Muslim fathers and mothers who kept you away from drugs, gambling and harram? and your "cultural" leaders of the past who spread Islam throughout the world? I know the people who have identity crises wont understand this, dont expect them to, but at least refrain from pulling others your way. Islam is perfect, Culture is beautiful and ignorance must be ridden of, but ignorance is not culture, its ignorance. Would like to know your views on this.
May Allah protect us, and help us.
Edited by SteppeNomad - 07 November 2009 at 12:16pm |
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Gibbs
Senior Member
Joined: 29 April 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 136 |
![]() Posted: 07 November 2009 at 1:30pm |
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I personally don't think there is nothing wrong with being proud of your culture, but when you indoctrinate your kids, relatives, children with the exclusivist mentality that you should only be around those of similar culture e.g. marriage, friendship then you may cross those ethical boundaries of being proud of your own culture to being prejudice. Don't confuse proud and prejudice because you can be proud of the positive things in your culture and dislike some negative things in your culture. With prejudice you may justify both positive and negative things (assuming if there are negative things).
I disagree with your separation of ignorance and culture. If parents teach the generational belief that women are inferior e.g. must walk behind a man or must be silent when a man speaks then its not ignorance separate from culture but ignorance within the culture. Or if a family teaches children that their ethnic group or culture is superior and this has been going on for hundreds of years its not ignorance by itself but ignorance within the culture. when you are calling something ignorant its your mental capacity to elevate yourself above what is unethical. Steppe you said: "Im Turkish, I love my
history, I love my peoples Nomadic past, I love the way they swept
across Siberia and Central Asia into Europe, Persia, China, South Asia,
Middle East etc, I love the difference in my peoples dresses, sounds,
way of life." every culture should be proud of their history but also every human culture at least what is known in the history books should know of their dark history. Osman I didn't gain his empire through reason nor through simply convincing people. The Ottoman empire which was one of the greatest empires known to man with all its enriched histories of man being enlightened and all that it showed us, enslaved humans took kids away from their parents, and killed millions of people. Be proud of your culture but also acknowledge the things that can be changed (and challenged) within your culture. |
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SteppeNomad
Senior Member
Joined: 08 July 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 113 |
![]() Posted: 07 November 2009 at 2:23pm |
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Originally posted by Gibbs every culture should be proud of their history but also every human culture at least what is known in the history books should know of their dark history. Osman I didn't gain his empire through reason nor through simply convincing people. The Ottoman empire which was one of the greatest empires known to man with all its enriched histories of man being enlightened and all that it showed us, enslaved humans took kids away from their parents, and killed millions of people. Be proud of your culture but also acknowledge the things that can be changed (and challenged) within your culture. I think I explained that the bad things in culture are ignorance rather then the beautiful thing called culture.
Regarding killings, war was normal, and you dont hear Turks moaning about Mercenary/Slave Turks taken by the Byzantines/Europeans and Umayads/Mamluks...Again lets not get into a history to much, we can have a different thread for that.
Lets not get into a debate about history, we are talking about Identity and cultural crises, why people try to be something they are not. Or why is hated so much by some.
Thank you for keeping it relavant. |
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martha
Senior Member
Joined: 30 October 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 769 |
![]() Posted: 09 November 2009 at 2:14am |
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Salams SteppeNomad,
Thank you for your lovely post. You know, I have always believed that no one is superior to another when it comes to culture and colour. I am white. I am also British. ANd of course I am muslim. Since reverting to Islam I have had troubles from all people regarding my nationality, colour and religion. I did not have such problems before. I love all people, I especially love other cultures. BUt I also love my own. I have never been racist and I am not racist now, but I try hard to keep my identity every single day. And sometimes I have had to really stick my neck out to do that. I reverted to Islam as a divorced woman of 3 children. It was my choice. Only later did I marry a man from another culture. For me it was not a problem. THe Prophet(pbuH)said there is no caste system in Islam. I remember this every day. I do not try to be something other than what I am. BUt by dOing that has isolated me completely from others and I am tired of trying with people..to help them see that at the end of the day I am a person. I am tired of others critising my country. How am I personally responsible for stuff that happens within my culture? I alway acknowledge in the forum that changes need to happen for all to live in peace and harmony, especially I feel a responsibility to do this in my culture. I have tried that...it doesn't work..many others aren't interested. I always say that people, regardless of their faith and culture should live here. Unfortunately I do rather get upset when I am expected to change for the sake of others that come. I just want all people to be fair with others. I keep life simple because it is better that way. We should all get along. Sometimes I see the injustices of the world by individuals. FOr example I have posted that I do not agree with how the Saudi's are building this huge hotel in Mecca. This is not aimed at their culture, rather at them as individuals who as muslims should not be so materialistic and detract from the Islam that the Prophet(pbuH) taught. I don't want this reply to be longer. But I hope you understand my view on this. Thank you brother. HAve a good day |
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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
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Akhe Abdullah
Male Islam Senior Member
Joined: 19 November 2008 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1203 |
![]() Posted: 09 November 2009 at 11:10am |
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As Salamu Alaikum brother Steppenomad,JazakAllah Kheiran for the topic.We are all Muslim first before we are Arabs,African,Asian,European,Afgani,Paki,Malay ect.We all accepted The Deen of Al-Islam by our on admissions,and I think that it is the change of learning about something that was or is new to us that is the difference. Islam is a way of life and it is a big change.You incorporate Islam into your life and not your life into Islam as I have been told because many of us comes from a Kafir back ground.Many of us lose contact with our families and people who we use to call friends,by simply chosing Islam.Who do we blame? us or them all we can do is be possitive examples of this change and InshAllah Allah will do the rest.I think that all of you have valid points in there own way thank you for your time. May Allah Bless you.
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martha
Senior Member
Joined: 30 October 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 769 |
![]() Posted: 09 November 2009 at 2:16pm |
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Salams Akhe,
I can understand that reverts might come from a kafir background and so being muslim could be foremost in the mind. But how do born muslims feel? Are they different to us, not being from kafir backgrounds? It is something I have never understood. Ask a muslim which is most important he/she will say his religion. Then they observe some strange traditions that contradict Islam completely. I find it complicated. |
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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
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Gibbs
Senior Member
Joined: 29 April 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 136 |
![]() Posted: 10 November 2009 at 11:58am |
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As far as being muslims before anything that is a matter of opinion. Frankly after what I've seen in my wife's family I think culture supercedes religion. If religion especially Islam is important to those living in the Medeterranian area, perhaps the non-racial, cultural actions of Islam would supercede their culture which has been in existence longer than the historical existence of Islam.
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Akhe Abdullah
Male Islam Senior Member
Joined: 19 November 2008 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1203 |
![]() Posted: 12 November 2009 at 11:16am |
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Originally posted by martha Wa Alaikum As Salam,Martha.I dont know how to quite answer your question,I love all my Muslim brothers and sisters no matter where they are from for Allahs sake. Salams Akhe, I can understand that reverts might come from a kafir background and so being muslim could be foremost in the mind. But how do born muslims feel? Are they different to us, not being from kafir backgrounds? It is something I have never understood. Ask a muslim which is most important he/she will say his religion. Then they observe some strange traditions that contradict Islam completely. I find it complicated.
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martha
Senior Member
Joined: 30 October 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 769 |
![]() Posted: 12 November 2009 at 1:16pm |
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Salams Akhe,
Oh sure, I love them all too :) BUt do they say the same about us when then are stuck culturally? |
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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
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Akhe Abdullah
Male Islam Senior Member
Joined: 19 November 2008 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1203 |
![]() Posted: 13 November 2009 at 10:00am |
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Salams Martha.Allah Knows
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