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Interfaith Dialogue
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Nazarene
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Quote Nazarene Replybullet Topic: A Psychological Nightmare
    Posted: 27 September 2009 at 5:12am
salaams brothers and sisters!
 
Below is yet another challenge for the trinity people.
 
if God.Jesus and the Holy Spirit are ONE in the same EQUAL in everyway , what is the meaning of this!!
 

Matthew 12:32 (New International Version)

32Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

if the son of man Jesus and the holy spirit are ONE and EQUAL to each other in everyway. Why can one be forgiven for a sin against one and NOT THE OTHER. If they are ONE and EQUAL would not a sin against one be a sin against the other also?
 
i better stop tring to make sence of this. i fear i'll get alzhiemers.
leland
 



Edited by Nazarene - 27 September 2009 at 5:14am
love for all conquers all
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salahuddeen2009
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Quote salahuddeen2009 Replybullet Posted: 28 September 2009 at 3:43am

sister

I stopped trying to make sense of it   since i've been asked to believe that 1+1+1=1 bcz each one of the small  ones is part of the BIG ONE as the first 1 is the Father of the second 1,the second 1 is the merciful face of the big One ,while the third 1 represents its power,but all of the small ones still are equal parts of the Big One ,which should always be ONE&even all these small ones are doing different things,with different names ,characters& capabilities,even they call each other&one of them prays to the other &call himself his prophet,they should still be ONE !!!!
 
It's as simple as that Confused
 
you know sister,for more than 10years,I've never met 2 christians who understandTRINITY in the same way!!each one of them tries to MANAGE how to make it Palatable,for himself in his own wayErmm
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Pati
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Quote Pati Replybullet Posted: 28 September 2009 at 1:13pm
Originally posted by Nazarene

s

Matthew 12:32 (New International Version)

32Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

if the son of man Jesus and the holy spirit are ONE and EQUAL to each other in everyway. Why can one be forgiven for a sin against one and NOT THE OTHER. If they are ONE and EQUAL would not a sin against one be a sin against the other also?
 
i better stop tring to make sence of this. i fear i'll get alzhiemers.
leland
 



Hi,

Well, I will tell you one thing: my mother is my mother (1), my father wife (1), my grand mother daughter (1), her friends friend (1), her neighbours neighbour (1), her colleagues colleague (1), etc...

So let us think in a mathematical way:

Mother (1) + Wife (1) + Daughter (1) + Friend (1) + Neighbour (1) + Colleague (1) =....

Can you give me the answer, please? For me, the answer is 1, because it's the same person everytime, developing different roles.

That's the same with God, we don't mean God is Three in number or in physical way (I am sure I already said all that, but I am not tired of repeating). God is Father (Sense), Son (Heart) and Holy Spirit (Faith), so we don't mean that God is made by three components, we just make difference with each of His roles. Do you understand?

Regarding Matthew's Quote... well, in my Bible it's different:

30 < El que no está conmigo, está contra mí, y el que no recoge conmigo desparrama>
31 <Por eso os digo: Todo pecado y blasfemia se perdonará a los hombres, pero la blasfemia contra el Espíritu Santo no será perdonada.>
32 <Y al que diga una palabra contra el Hijo del Hombre, se le perdonará; pero al que diga contra el Espíritu Santo, no se le perdonará ni en este mundo ni en el otro>

Sorry to write it in Spanish, I will try to explain what that means: the meaning of this quote is that God can forgive the men when they are fighting, talking in bad way or bad things, etc. between them, because that's our natural way of being. But He cannot forgive us as human when we do it against Him, against the Holy Spirit or the Faith.

God can save anyone who makes a mistake, but He cannot forgive the worst mistake, which is to reject Him or to talk in bad way about Him.

When it says "The Son of Man", it's talking about the people, humanity, not about Jesus. God understand that people are fighting against each other, because we are equal at the end, but He cannot understand it when we don't respect Him and we insult Him, no matter how we do.

Regards,
Patricia

No God wants the killing, but the peace.
The weapons are carried by people, not by religions.
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salahuddeen2009
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Quote salahuddeen2009 Replybullet Posted: 28 September 2009 at 5:08pm
SALAM PATI
YOU R WRONG,IAM SORRY TO SAY IT AS HARD AS THIS,
 
SON OF MAN IS USED IN THE BIBLE=NEWTESTAMENT TO POINT TO JESUS IN PARTICUAR
SEE THIS
Mt 12:40 -
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth
Mt 13:41 - The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.
Mt 16:13 - When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
Mt 16:27 -  
For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.

ALSO,REGARDING SPLITTING GOD INTO 3 ACCRDING TO HIS RULES,LET'S BE LOGIC;

WHAT WOULD U SAY WHEN I TELL U THAT   YOUR MOTHER CAME TO YOUR FAMILY HOUSE AND SHE WAS SITTING DOWN ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF YOUR FATHER'S WIFE  AND THEY SPOKE TOGETER FOR SOME TIME,THEN YOUR FATHER'S WIFE ORDERED YOUR MOTHER TO BRING SOME GOODS FROM THE MARKET, AND SHE SENT  YOUR GRANDMOTHER'S DAUGHTER WITH HER  TO MAKE  HER MISSION EASIER

ISN'T THIS THE TRINITY STORYConfused,GIVING A NAME FOR EACH ROLE OF THE SAME PERSON,AND MAKE THIS ROLE ACT INDEPENDENTLYWacko
 
DO YOU MEAN THAT FATHER ALONE REPRESENTS
 A GOD WITH SENSE BUT WITOUT HEART OR FAITHDisapprove
 
 DOES THE SON HAS NO SENSE NOR FAITH,AND ONLY HAS A HEART
DOES TRINTY MAKE ANY SENSE
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Nur_Ilahi
 
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Quote Nur_Ilahi Replybullet Posted: 29 September 2009 at 6:58am
That's the same with God, we don't mean God is Three in number or in physical way (I am sure I already said all that, but I am not tired of repeating). God is Father (Sense), Son (Heart) and Holy Spirit (Faith), so we don't mean that God is made by three components, we just make difference with each of His roles. Do you understand?

In that case Son of God is metaphorical right? However many Christians take it literally.

Regarding Matthew's Quote... well, in my Bible it's different: -

This is the crux of the problem in Christianity. There are so many different versions that instead of uniting, it is dividing people. There is no 1 Bible that is the same. Some belief in God and Jesus as Prophet, some belief in Jesus as God or Son of God.  God is One. Therefore His Choice of His Holy Scripture should be One too.


God can save anyone who makes a mistake, but He cannot forgive the worst mistake, which is to reject Him or to talk in bad way about Him.

There is a similarity in Islam. The reason why we say the Shahadah - LAILAHA ILALLAH - THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH - is that we are acknowledging that there is no other God worthy of being worshipped but Allah. To reject Him and to accept other than Allah - The Creator of the Whole Universe, is the worst kind of sin. It is like equating Him - The Creator of the Whole Universe with His Absolute Power with another Creation of Him.

When it says "The Son of Man", it's talking about the people, humanity, not about Jesus. God understand that people are fighting against each other, because we are equal at the end, but He cannot understand it when we don't respect Him and we insult Him, no matter how we do.

That is what Christianity is doing to Allah - God of the Whole universe. Not giving due respect to The Being that created the air for us to breathe, the water for us to drink, the food for us to eat and so on. Instead, believing in a Creation of the Creator - Jesus - is showing disrespect to the utmost.



Edited by Nur_Ilahi - 29 September 2009 at 7:00am
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Hayfa
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Quote Hayfa Replybullet Posted: 29 September 2009 at 9:59am

Mother (1) + Wife (1) + Daughter (1) + Friend (1) + Neighbour (1) + Colleague (1) =....

Can you give me the answer, please? For me, the answer is 1, because it's the same person everytime, developing different roles.


Yes, but not to the same person...  my mother is my mother. She is never my wife or my daughter. So what you are saying is that God is the spirit to some but to others the 'heart.'

And no matter.. one must dominate. We have one biological mother. She may or may not become my friend. But she will always be my mother. One takes precedence.
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Pati
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Quote Pati Replybullet Posted: 29 September 2009 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi

That's the same with God, we don't mean God is Three in number or in physical way (I am sure I already said all that, but I am not tired of repeating). God is Father (Sense), Son (Heart) and Holy Spirit (Faith), so we don't mean that God is made by three components, we just make difference with each of His roles. Do you understand?

In that case Son of God is metaphorical right? However many Christians take it literally.

I know, and that's a problem. Also, lot of Christians are talking wrong things about our own religion, and giving wrong ideas about it. That's the real nightmare. By my side, when I don't know anything, I accept it and just try to find the right answer. But I have to accept that I don't have all the answers (I wish).

Regarding Matthew's Quote... well, in my Bible it's different: -

This is the crux of the problem in Christianity. There are so many different versions that instead of uniting, it is dividing people. There is no 1 Bible that is the same. Some belief in God and Jesus as Prophet, some belief in Jesus as God or Son of God.  God is One. Therefore His Choice of His Holy Scripture should be One too.

I completely agree with you. But at the same time, the some of the wisest people in Vatican are Spanish, and they are controlling every Bible printed here. Spain is one of the countries where the Catholicism is really a tradition and we keep in our mind most of the traditional ideas (actually, my parents still remember when the Ceremony was said in Latin, just 30 years back). I think that the controls we have in Spain are quite important as to prefer the Spanish version of the Bible (printed) than any other Bible we may find through internet.

God can save anyone who makes a mistake, but He cannot forgive the worst mistake, which is to reject Him or to talk in bad way about Him.

There is a similarity in Islam. The reason why we say the Shahadah - LAILAHA ILALLAH - THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH - is that we are acknowledging that there is no other God worthy of being worshipped but Allah. To reject Him and to accept other than Allah - The Creator of the Whole Universe, is the worst kind of sin. It is like equating Him - The Creator of the Whole Universe with His Absolute Power with another Creation of Him.


I know, that's why I believe our religions are more similar than what we really realize.


When it says "The Son of Man", it's talking about the people, humanity, not about Jesus. God understand that people are fighting against each other, because we are equal at the end, but He cannot understand it when we don't respect Him and we insult Him, no matter how we do.

That is what Christianity is doing to Allah - God of the Whole universe. Not giving due respect to The Being that created the air for us to breathe, the water for us to drink, the food for us to eat and so on. Instead, believing in a Creation of the Creator - Jesus - is showing disrespect to the utmost.

That's your opinion. In my opinion the problem is not with Christianity or Islam, but with people who belong to that religions, and even with the people who are not part of them. We have to make difference between prayers and God, because there is a very big difference.


Salams
No God wants the killing, but the peace.
The weapons are carried by people, not by religions.
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Pati
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Quote Pati Replybullet Posted: 29 September 2009 at 1:49pm
Originally posted by Hayfa


Mother (1) + Wife (1) + Daughter (1) + Friend (1) + Neighbour (1) + Colleague (1) =....

Can you give me the answer, please? For me, the answer is 1, because it's the same person everytime, developing different roles.


Yes, but not to the same person...  my mother is my mother. She is never my wife or my daughter. So what you are saying is that God is the spirit to some but to others the 'heart.'

And no matter.. one must dominate. We have one biological mother. She may or may not become my friend. But she will always be my mother. One takes precedence.


Hi Hayfa,

Sure, and the most important is God Himself, be sure of that. But I believe one thing and another are not a contradiction.

Salams
No God wants the killing, but the peace.
The weapons are carried by people, not by religions.
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