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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Basis of Sunni_Shia discord Post Reply Post New Topic
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delight
 
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Quote delight Replybullet Posted: 11 May 2005 at 2:23pm

Salam zaki,

        Many newmuslims become shia,because of the preaching of shia on the net.Most of the sites are shia.Sunni being in majority do not care much about counterattack.

  What I found strange was.

 The reason I say this is strange is because, within mainstream Shiism there is not distinction of which "School of Law" you follow

Never heard of usoli and akhbari athna ashris?Both call each other kafir.

 



Edited by delight
LOGIC IS SIMPLE OTHERWISE IT IS ARGUMENT.
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Ali Zaki
 
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Quote Ali Zaki Replybullet Posted: 11 May 2005 at 3:02pm

Salam Delight,

Thank you for your contribution.

Let me explain this statment. The vast majority of Shia (and Shia websites) present one point of view, namely the 12er (Ithnan Ashera) perspective. This perspective is not, strictly speaking considered a "School of Law" because the only Shia that say they are anything but Shia are those in the tiny minority (such as Ismali's, Alawi's, etc.). I cannot think of any discussion I've had with a Shia (from many different parts of the world) where any sub-identification was given. Shia simply identify themselves as such, and 12er is assumed.

In contrast, Sunni's usually further segregate themselves based on the Mathhab which they follow. You don't find educated Sunnis (in intellectual discussions) just saying "I'm a Sunni" and not being challenged or asked for their Mathhab. Of course, the Wahabi's do try to just identify themselves as "Muslim", but this is disengenous as most Muslims certainly do not share the Wahabi perspective (unless you consider eveyone else to be Kafirs, but that's a different subject).

I am not very educated on the differences between the Sunni Schools of Law, however, I assume there must be significant differences.

Salam

"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)
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delight
 
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Quote delight Replybullet Posted: 12 May 2005 at 12:25pm

Salam,

 These athna ashri represent usooli shiaism.This shiaism became predominant after 1979 Irani revolution.Most followers are Iranian.

      But in other countries,like Indo pak,Akhbari dominate.

If you want to get a little deeper in this,go to ahbari.org.

The shias present a United front.But infact they are divided on basic principals of shiaism. 

   Sunni are divided in minor diffrences in practice only,we do not fight on basic principals.Usooli shias are even more segregated on the basis of thousands of marjas.

   You will find in akbari site,that their fatwas on Islamic rules,differ greatly.Sistani allow eating some birds,which are haram in the eyes of other marjas.

   The defence of usooli,that marjas are responsible,is absurd.Because in front of Allah,shia will be answerable for their deeds,not their marjas.If a marja give correct fatwa he will get full Thwab,if wrong half.But the poor follower will go to hell.

   Salafism is a movement.Like that of Martin luther in christanity.It is not a separate madhab.Because it is a movement,it is a bit extreme.You will admit that getting a Pope,s letter and going to heaven was a much easier way than that of luther. 

   

   

    Su

LOGIC IS SIMPLE OTHERWISE IT IS ARGUMENT.
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Ali Zaki
 
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Quote Ali Zaki Replybullet Posted: 12 May 2005 at 12:57pm

Salam delight,

With respect to you, someone who would post a topic called, "Hate Game of the Shia" does not seem like a respectful, intellectual person to have a dialogue with (of couse, I could be wrong and Allah (s.w.a.) is al-Alim (the judge)).

From an academic point of view, your arguments are weak and annecdotal and lack evidence of scholarly research.

Salafism is not a Mathab or a school of jurisprudence and is not accepted by either Sunni's or Shia's as. Your examination of the system of Wilayat and Marjaiyah according to the Shia is incorrect , "on it's face" and is not worth responding to in any serious way.

Please do not continue in this Fitna that you are creating, or at least educate yourself about those that you wish to criticize. Maybe the 'Hate Game' is being played by someone other than the Shia.

"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)
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delight
 
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Quote delight Replybullet Posted: 13 May 2005 at 2:48pm

 

     Shias are eloquent when talking about diffrences among sunnis.But become silent when fighting among akhbari and usooli athna ashri is cited.lol.

  Maybe if shia just remain shia and donot try to prove sunni wrong,there will be no fitna.

    I always say to shias,less preaching and more practising of Islam will save them,not their Imams. 

LOGIC IS SIMPLE OTHERWISE IT IS ARGUMENT.
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ummziba
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Quote ummziba Replybullet Posted: 13 May 2005 at 3:02pm

Assalamu alaikum,

Just a comment -  Allah gave us the perfect religion, simple, easy to follow, easy to understand, open to all.  Why is it that humans (it seems to me mostly men, as they are the "scholars") want to go and make Islam so complicated?  This has led to so many fractures in the ummah.  What a pity.

Peace, ummziba.

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~
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delight
 
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Quote delight Replybullet Posted: 14 May 2005 at 4:02am

Salam,

   ummziba.Answer is simple.Money.

Large group means less devotion,small group means more devotion so more khums and zakath.

  These priests represent the oldest religion of world.The feed on fears and doubts of beleivers.

 Islam,in which there is no concept of clergy,finally sucsumbed to them.

 Women are more realistic,they can see the real simplicity of Islam.

 While we men,try to find hidden meanings in Islam.

LOGIC IS SIMPLE OTHERWISE IT IS ARGUMENT.
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ummziba
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Quote ummziba Replybullet Posted: 14 May 2005 at 4:53am
Originally posted by delight

 Women are more realistic,they can see the real simplicity of Islam.

Perhaps this helps explain why thousands of women all over the world are converting to Islam!

Peace, ummziba.

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~
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