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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
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delight
 
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Quote delight Replybullet Posted: 14 May 2005 at 2:41pm
Originally posted by ummziba

 .

 

Perhaps this helps explain why thousands of women all over the world are converting to Islam!

 

 

   And also the fact that they do not force others to follow their Religion.If you say someone,s religion is wrong,they reflexily refuse to understand your logic that follows next.

LOGIC IS SIMPLE OTHERWISE IT IS ARGUMENT.
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Ali Zaki
 
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Quote Ali Zaki Replybullet Posted: 16 May 2005 at 8:31am

Re: Divisions among the Muslims into groups, Here are the words of Imam Ali (a.s.) when he was asked about the reason for the divisions that appeared among the Muslims during his time,

" I wonder, and there is no reason why I should not wonder, about the faults of these groups who have introduced alterations in their religious pleas, who do not move on the footsteps of their Prophet nor follow the actions of the vicegerent. They do not believe in the unknown and do not avoid the evil. They act on the doubts and tread in (the way of) their passions. For them good is whatever they consider good and evil is whatever they consider evil. Their reliance for resolving distresses is on themselves. Their confidence in regard to dubious matters is on their own opinions as if every one of them is the Leader (Imam) of himself. Whatever he has decided himself he considers it to have been taken through reliable sources and strong factors. "

Nagul Balagha, Sermon No. 88

Salam

"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)
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new_muslimah
 
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Quote new_muslimah Replybullet Posted: 24 May 2005 at 1:11pm

dear brothers and sisters Salamun alaykum.I am a ne-revert to Islam after a long period of soul searching and reading. Islam is the most beautiful message of GOD.

After reading in-depth , after what happened after the demise of Holy Prophet (PBUH) , i concluded, that IMAM ALI is the rightly appointed successor to Holy Prophet and the followers of Imam Ali , have thus direct link to Holy Prophet.

Look at what Muawiyah did to Imam Ali....hundreds of people killed in Siffeen in the war against the RIGHTLY Appointed successor of Prophet. But I am amazed how my Sunni brothers and sisters just ignore this huge fact and still respect this person (muawiya)

Even if you look at the world today, True Islam is being represented by the teachings of Islamic Revolution in iran.

We have same book, same Allah, same Kaaba, same Prophet, but unfortunately, i have seen Salafis, curse and swear and label as Kafir 'other muslims". I have not met a single Shia brother or sister who will call others Kafir.

All this has led me to study Shia school deeply and I conlcuded that SHIAISM is the mainstream and the direct connection to Holy Prophet.

Another mind-boggling fact :

SON of Imam Ali, hussain gave up everything in karabala , when he was killed by Yazeed son of Muawiya.

But HOW MANY SUNNIS do we know who even respect and consider Imam hussain as a HERO of islam and condemn the killer army of yazid?

Despite the difference my shia -contacts urge me to join hands with other muslims based on our common points.

I just want to urge every one to be open and fair minded...esp "delight"

 

 

 

Allah is the Light of the Universe.
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najeeb
 
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Quote najeeb Replybullet Posted: 05 June 2005 at 2:37am
salam,
allow me to take my heart out to you please.
i was born a twelver shia'a and my wife was born a sunni maliki. we have all been conditioned to certain beliefs which have been engraved into our mind and accepted without questionning. when these beliefs are challenged, we feel insulted, betrayed, attacked. Because of our different beliefs (which i find very unfortunate), i have decided to research our differences: successor of the prophet, who are the ahlul bayt and what are their true virtues, the origins of adhan, the form of adhan, the correct wudu' ritual, the loyal companions and the disloyal ones, the taraweeh, salat al-janazat and countless other topics which have been debated for centuries to no avail. i must say that this research was enlightening and opened my eyes to many issues.

I find it unfortunate that we (sunnis and shias) differ on very basic things such as the ablution rituals and the adhan. these two rituals were performed over 5 times a day for 23 years with the prophet! how is it that today the shia believe that the feet should be wiped while the sunnis believe that they should be washed! what the adhan? the shia'a believe that "hayya a'ala khayrul a'amal" was part of it while the sunnis deny it. what about salat al-taraweeh? there are clear hadith about it not being a sunnah but an innovation of umar.

these differences should have never existed ever? since they exist, they should have been resolved a long time ago.

the sunnis praise mu'awaiyah and some praise yazeed when these 2 perverts and tyrants were clearly the enemies of ahlul bayt, just like abu sufyan was the enemy of muhammad! it tears my heart apart when i hear a sheikh or a'alim say "radiyallah a'anhu" after saying the name of mu'awiyah. how can you praise the enemies of ahlul bayt who are the beloved pure family of the prophet??? this is very shocking and i can't stay quiet about it.

here is my advice to all of you: you have to open your mind and believe in the possibility that you may be wrong instead of clinging to the beliefs you have been conditioned to. you must read and rationalize. HOW IS IT POSSIBLE THAT ALL 5 SCHOOLS OF THOUGHT USE THE QURAN AND THE SUNNAH TO GET THEIR ANSWERS, AND YET, THEY REACH CONTRADICTORY ANSWERS.

HERE IS A SIMPLE QUESTION: WHO ARE AHLUL BAYT in VERSE 33:33? SOME SUNNIS BELIEVE THEY ARE SOLELY THE WIVES OF TE PROPHETS, OTHERS ADD TO THEM ALI, FATIMA, HASSAN AND HUSSEIN. THE SHIA (12ERS) BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE ALI, FATIMA, HASSAN AND HUSSEIN. WHERE/HOW DID THIS DIFFERENCE COME FROM? CAN WE RESOLVE IT? you may wonder how the answer will benefit us. well, there is a reason why it is in the quran and why allah has purified them from uncleaness. knowing the answer to this question will resolve several other controversies. it is also our duty to attribute this purification to the right people.

salam
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Abu Hadi
 
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Quote Abu Hadi Replybullet Posted: 05 June 2005 at 4:33am

Salams to najeeb and others.

If you have some time, please review the hmmmm! topic if you have not done so already. I believe it would be very enlightening to you, since you are interested in this debate.

I consider myself to be a muslim and I aspire to be a mu'min (although I probably don't deserve the latter). A mu'min is the best title we could ever give ourselves. But what does it mean to be a mu'min ? That is the question. In my opinion, and the opinion of many other, it simply means that when we take Shahada " Ashadu an La Ilaha IllAllah wa ahshad anla Muhammed RasoullAllah" we belive this in an unconditional and absolute sense and attempt to apply it in our daily lives. The beauty of the phrase is that it is enough to guide you to the right path, if your (niyyat) intention is pure.

All of the problems and divisions that have occured in the Ummah of Muhammed after his death have been the result of muslims not being true to their Shahada. The first part "Ashadu an La Illaha IllAllah..." would prevent us from worshiping anything except Allah(s.w.a). It is unfortunate that some of the Prophet's companions began worshipping other that Allah(s.w.a) after the Prophet's(p.b.u.h) death. Of course, they didn't do this in a literal sense, but in a figurative sense. They began to worship wealth and position in place of Allah(s.w.a). This lead to the violation of the second part of Shahada "Ashadu anla Muhammed RasoullAllah". They began to call into question what the Prophet(p.b.u.h) had made clear on The Day of Ghadir. The Prophet's(p.b.u.h) nomination of Imam Ali to suceed him as leader of the muslims was not only made at Ghadir , but at many other times and occasions and is recorded in many of the Sunni saheeh (Such as Bukhari and Muslim). This , in tern, lead to the tragedy of the events of the Sakifa and ultimately to the tragedy of Karbala, and to the unfortunate events of our time such as the creation of the Zionist state of Israel and the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

Today the Ummah of Muhammed(p.b.u.h)  is in a very unfortunate situation. Some of our muslim brothers and sisters say, "We'll let's just forget about the leadership question and focus our I'badat(worship). This never made sense to me, as if any leader will do. If that is the case then think about this; Imagine if our leader in the first 23 years of Islam had been anyone other the RasoulAllah(p.b.u.h) ? Would the religion of Islam even exist today ?

There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error...
Quran Ch.2 Verse 256
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najeeb
 
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Quote najeeb Replybullet Posted: 05 June 2005 at 2:17pm
salam, thanks for your input.
indeed many of the companions have become disloyal to islam. many hadith prove this fact, some of which i am providing below:

Narrated Ibn Abbas: The Prophet said, "You will be gathered (on the Day of Judgment), bare-footed, naked and not circumcised." He then recited: 'As We began the first creation, We, shall repeat it: A Promise We have undertaken: Truly we shall do it.' (21.104) He added, "The first to be dressed on the Day of Resurrection, will be Abraham, and some of my companions will be taken towards the left side (i.e. to the (Hell) Fire), and I will say: 'My companions! My companions!' It will be said: 'They renegade from Islam after you left them.' Then I will say as the Pious slave of Allah (i.e. Jesus) said. 'And I was a witness Over them while I dwelt amongst them. When You took me up You were the Watcher over them, And You are a witness to all things. If You punish them. They are Your slaves And if You forgive them, Verily you, only You are the All-Mighty, the All-Wise." (5.120-121)
References:
ref: Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 568, Book: Ahadith al-Anbiya'; Page 705, Number 3349 (Arabic version)

Narrated 'Uqba bin 'Amir: One day the Prophet went out and offered the funeral prayers of the martyrs of Uhud and then went up the pulpit and said, "I will pave the way for you as your predecessor and will be a witness on you. By Allah! I see my Fount (Kauthar) just now and I have been given the keys of all the treasures of the earth (or the keys of the earth). By Allah! I am not afraid that you will worship others along with Allah after my death, but I am afraid that you will fight with one another for the worldly things."
ref: Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 23, Number 428 - Funerals (al-Janaa'iz); Page 282, Number 1344 (Arabic version)

Narrated Anas:
The Prophet said, "Some of my companions will come to me at my Lake Fount, and after I recognize them, they will then be taken away from me, whereupon I will say, 'My companions!' Then it will be said, 'You do not know what they innovated (new things) in the religion after you."
ref: Sahih Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 76, Number 584 - To make the Heart Tender (ar-Riqaq) - (English version)

Narrated Jarir: The Prophet said to me during Hajjat-al-Wada', "Let the people keep quiet and listen." Then he said (addressing the people), "Beware! Do not renegade as disbelievers after me by striking (cutting) the necks of one another."
ref: Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 88, #201, Book: al-Fitan; Page 1493, #7080 (Arabic version)

the prophet was fully aware of what would happen after his demise. that is how many of his followers will turn back their heels to religion. he was also aware of the threats that the persian and byzantins empires were posing to the ummah, of the hypocrites who infiltrated islam to destroy from within. having said this, how can someone believe that the prophet never fulfilled the basic duty of appointing his successor, while the first four caliphs did?

yes, indeed, if all the companions remained faithful to islam, we would have been in a much better shape today. we would have had the same interpretation of the quran, and the sunnah would have not been polluted with fabrications. the prophet spent his life fighting oppression, tyranny and injustice.

yet, the majority of the muslims allowed people like mua'awiyah, yazeed and his likes to be leaders of the ummah. these are the people who disrupted the ummah, corrupted the sunnah and distorted the meaning of the quran. these are the people who brainwashed the weak believers with lies such as ahlul bayt are the wives of the prophet and ulil amr are mu'awiyah and his likes. who stood up against such tyrants except the followers and supporters of ahlul bayt? who fought them except ali, al-hassan, al-hussein, their descendants and their supporters? where were the majority of the muslims? who spent 80 years insulting ali on the pulpits of the mosques? was not mua'awiyah the author of this evil tradition, which his successors carried on for 80 years?
the faithful companion abu dharr al-ghifari did not stop fighting the injustice of mu'awiyah, marwan ibn al-hakam and his likes. let alone Ali who fought him in siffin!

you want to praise companions, praise ammar ibn yassir, abdullah ibn al-abbas and his father, abu dharr al-ghifari, salman al-farisi, jabir ibn abdullah, abdullah ibn mas'ud, bilal, muhammad ibn abu bakr and many others who remained faithful to the prophet and his pure progeny. not the ones who turned their heels to islam and joined hands with mua'awiyah and his likes and remained quiet when the progeny of the prophet was being mistreated, denigrated and vilified!

what has happened to the muslims in those days, is still happening today. we are still governed by oppressors, we are still brainwashed with falsehoods, the enemies of ahlul bayt are still praised. how can we become united again when the great scholars have failed to reconcile our differences???

i can write and speak for hours, but the truth will hardly sink in. the facts are everywhere in the books of hadith, of history and interpretation of the quran.

i challenge any honest muslim to prove to me that what i have said is false, and let allah be our witness.

READ, READ AND READ WITH AN OPEN MIND.
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Fuhad
 
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Quote Fuhad Replybullet Posted: 06 June 2005 at 5:17pm

Salaam:

Can anyone provide a list of leading 'Western Scholars of Islam in University's of UK, USA, Europe and Australia ( I mean converts, I dont want Iranian, Indians or Egyptians etc ) who have choosen to follow Jafari Madhab i.e shia version of Islam eg Hamza Yusuf who choose Maliki Madhab ,Sunni version of Islam to follow.

This will be helpful for my comparative comparative.

Regards

Fuhad

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Ayubi1187
 
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Quote Ayubi1187 Replybullet Posted: 07 June 2005 at 1:40am
Originally posted by najeeb

salam, thanks for your input.
indeed many of the companions have become disloyal to islam. many hadith prove this fact, some of which i am providing below:

...ref: Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 568, Book: Ahadith al-Anbiya'; Page 705, Number 3349 (Arabic version)
..ref: Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 23, Number 428 - Funerals (al-Janaa'iz); Page 282, Number 1344 (Arabic version)
..ref: Sahih Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 76, Number 584 - To make the Heart Tender (ar-Riqaq) - (English version)

..ref: Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 88, #201, Book: al-Fitan; Page 1493, #7080 (Arabic version)


Thank you for revealing the true believes of shiism. Why twist and say "many" instead of the true shia believe that the overwhelming majority(99%) of sahaba became renegades and apostates after the prophets death or are you scared that people would call you a lunatic?

Why don't you read the sharh for this hadith instead of giving your own interpretation. It certainly can be twisted by any one who have enmity and hatred to sahaba, what prevents that some one uses this hadith to clime that it refers to Ali(ra). Amongst the people who this hadith refers to are non other than the tribes that the first rightly guided caliph Abu bakr sadiq(ra) have fought after prophets(saw) death which is known in the history of islam as the war against the apostates.


yes, indeed, if all the companions remained faithful to islam, we would have been in a much better shape today. we would have had the same interpretation of the quran, and the sunnah would have not been polluted with fabrications.


Any one who uses this argument of "if this and that didn't happen" should check his mind first its illogical it would lead as in an endless circle because if something happened other way even then some one can say "if this and that didn't happen" this would not take us any ware. We ahlul-sunnah believe that all sahaba remained faithful unlike your cult who believes that all sahaba(99%) became renegades except 6 or 9. About the arguments of interpretation and fabrication their is no sect more fames than yours for mass producing fabricated hadith and atrubiting to ahlul-bayt and the pious salaf

yet, the majority of the muslims allowed people like mua'awiyah, yazeed and his likes to be leaders of the ummah. these are the people who disrupted the ummah, corrupted the sunnah and distorted the meaning of the quran...


So now your accusing imams Hassan(ra) for wrong doing? He turned over the caliphat to Muawiya(ra) who according to you corrupted the quran and the sunnah? who will people trust you or Imam Hassan ibn Ali(ra)?


you want to praise companions, praise ammar ibn yassir, abdullah ibn al-abbas and his father, abu dharr al-ghifari, salman al-farisi, jabir ibn abdullah, abdullah ibn mas'ud, bilal, muhammad ibn abu bakr and many others who remained faithful to the prophet..


So this is the only companions who remained faithful to islam? naudobillah

Edited by Ayubi1187
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