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oxbow
 
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Quote oxbow Replybullet Topic: On American Muslims and political action
    Posted: 18 March 2005 at 10:58am

Muslims make up less than 1% of the population in America (about 1 million out of over 200 million). For their rights and concerns to be heard, it is imperative that American Muslims join with others under common interests. This includes joining partnerships with members of the religious left and secular humanist foundations.

The religious right makes up between 33 and 40% of the American population. They are well organized, media savvy and have their infrastructure already set up. They have Rush Limbaugh and FOX news and other media outlets spreading their message every day while simultaneously drowning out all opposing voices. We on the other side have none of this, and that's why we are losing the battle for respect and tolerance.

"It is an old cliché that politics makes strange bedfellows, and nowhere is that more clear than in the odd relationship between the Religious Left and left-leaning political activists. Together, these groups helped ignite the Civil Rights movement in the 1950s and 1960s, proving that massive social and political change was possible through the combined efforts of seemingly contrary entities."

http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/exclusive/anthony_03_ 04.htm

It has been done once before, and it can certainly be done again. The next few years are a time for organization. They are a time for mobilization and networking in preparation for the great political battles coming ahead in 2006 and 08. If we don't act now, things will only continue to get worse for all who believe in peace and progress in America. I urge all of you to get involved in the political process, because no one else is going to protect your interests for you.

 

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Quote Yusuf. Replybullet Posted: 18 March 2005 at 6:35pm

From the Second Point of the Sixteenth Letter of the Risale-i Nur:

"Since the truths of belief and the Qur'an are each like diamonds, if I was polluted by politics, the ordinary people who are easily deceived, would wonder about those diamonds I was holding, "Aren't they for political propaganda to attract more supporters?" They might regard the diamonds as bits of common glass. Then by being involved with politics, I would be wronging the diamonds and as though reducing their value."

As for alliance with the militant atheists (humanists):

3:28 Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah. except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.

3:118 O ye who believe! Take not into your intimacy those outside your ranks: They will not fail to corrupt you. They only desire your ruin: Rank hatred has already appeared from their mouths: What their hearts conceal is far worse. We have made plain to you the Signs, if ye have wisdom.

Allah 'Alim



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Quote oxbow Replybullet Posted: 19 March 2005 at 1:33am

Who will save your rights then? Who will save the innocents dying in Iraq and Palestine? Who will stand up for them if not the muslim community in America? And how can American Muslims' voices be heard when they are a tiny fraction of the population? There is no other way. The enemy of my enemy becomes my friend.

Baghdad was once the jewel of the islamic empire, and the greatest city in the world. But the empire became xenophobic, cutting itself off from outside influences that were changing the region. Arts and Science in the empire degenerated because of intellectual incest, and the Renaissance passed by an Islamic world focused solely on its own culture. A culture that considers itself too superior to work with others is bound to stand still. Cross-pollination is the key to cultural progress.

A people that don't stand up for their interests are also doomed to be trodden upon. It is possible to share common interests, and agree to disagree on other issues. Political action is a Spiritual action; it is the conversion of hearts and minds. The Civil Rights movement showed us that clearly, as did the acomplishments of Gandhi for India. Societies were changed as a result of the religious convictions of those people, and their willingness to work together to realize them.



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Quote Yusuf. Replybullet Posted: 19 March 2005 at 9:32am
Originally posted by oxbow

Who will save your rights then? Who will save the innocents dying in Iraq and Palestine? Who will stand up for them if not the muslim community in America? And how can American Muslims' voices be heard when they are a tiny fraction of the population? There is no other way.

There is another way: hijra (emigration).

Originally posted by oxbow

Baghdad was once the jewel of the islamic empire, and the greatest city in the world. But the empire became xenophobic, cutting itself off from outside influences that were changing the region. Arts and Science in the empire degenerated because of intellectual incest, and the Renaissance passed by an Islamic world focused solely on its own culture. A culture that considers itself too superior to work with others is bound to stand still. Cross-pollination is the key to cultural progress.

I agree that the Islamic world suffered a material decline because the rejected all of western society. However, this does not lead to the conclusion that one must accept all of western society. Science, technology, must and will be integrated into the Islamic world to improve their condition. But the values of the west: decadance, greed, consumerism, and atheism, must be rejected. We have the Qur'an to guide us in these areas. 

Originally posted by oxbow

A people that don't stand up for their interests are also doomed to be trodden upon. It is possible to share common interests, and agree to disagree on other issues. Political action is a Spiritual action; it is the conversion of hearts and minds. The Civil Rights movement showed us that clearly, as did the acomplishments of Gandhi for India. Societies were changed as a result of the religious convictions of those people, and their willingness to work together to realize them.

Politics requires one to make alliances with impious people who coincidentally share a single interest, and to oppose pious people who coincidentally do not share that interest. Am I to oppose my brother for a miserable gain?

16:95 Nor sell the covenant of Allah for a miserable price: for with Allah is (a prize) far better for you, if ye only knew.

Politics corrects nothing: it is what is in the hearts of the people that guides society. Only when the spirit of God, subhanahu wa ta'ala, is alive in the hearts of the people will there be a just society.

Allah Hafiz



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Quote oxbow Replybullet Posted: 19 March 2005 at 11:57pm
Originally posted by Yusuf

There is another way: hijra (emigration).

The West is far more powerful than anywhere you might emigrate to, and right now it is on the war path. Those who live in the west have the opportunity to change the hearts of its people away from war and and fear, and should take advantage of that opportunity.

 

I agree that the Islamic world suffered a material decline because the rejected all of western society. However, this does not lead to the conclusion that one must accept all of western society. Science, technology, must and will be integrated into the Islamic world to improve their condition. But the values of the west: decadance, greed, consumerism, and atheism, must be rejected. We have the Qur'an to guide us in these areas. 

Agreed. The whole concept of cross-pollination involves cultures taking what is useful and relevant from other cultures, and leaving the rest behind. I repeat that you can work with others towards common goals and still maintain your integrity.

Politics corrects nothing: it is what is in the hearts of the people that guides society. Only when the spirit of God, subhanahu wa ta'ala, is alive in the hearts of the people will there be a just society.

I totally agree! But what was the civil rights movement, if not a changing of the people's collective heart? What was Gandhi's civil disobedience, if not the same thing? All of these political movements were inspired by the religious convicitions of their followers. They spoke truth, they showed people how their society was at odds with the laws of God, and the people were converted to their way of thinking by the power of truth, which is the power of God.

And who is this brother that you would turn against by allying yourself with secular humanists? Is he in the religious right? The neo-conservatives?

They would not ask you to support their atheism you know, only to help them oppose the war and support minority rights. Those in the left are generally very tolerant of others, as long as youre not trying to force your beliefs on them through law. That is what they're fighting, and their goals are ours in this case.

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Quote semar Replybullet Posted: 20 March 2005 at 1:56am

Just not too overestimate or under estimate, even though there is no specific census about religion, the popular estimate of muslim in america is ranging between 4-7 millions, here som sources:

http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=6 264
CAIR puts their number at seven million; the State Department at just over four million

http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Park/6443/Fastest/sea ttle_mia.html

http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_numb.htm

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/jazayerli/010919.html

 

Salam/Peace,
Semar
The Prophet said: "Do not eat before you are hungry, and stop eating before you are full"
"1/3 of your stomach for food 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"
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Quote Yusuf. Replybullet Posted: 20 March 2005 at 10:15am

Please see next post.



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Quote Yusuf. Replybullet Posted: 20 March 2005 at 10:32am

The current war is not the result of politics, but rather of the Spirit of the American people. Indeed, if Bush had not followed his current course the people would have replaced him with someone who represented their will.

 

Muslims must return to the teachings of their faith. Then Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, will reward them, and there will be nothing the Americans can do about it:

 

7:137 and We made a people, considered weak (and of no account), inheritors of lands in both east and west, - lands whereon We sent down Our blessings. The fair promise of thy Lord was fulfilled for the Children of Israel, because they had patience and constancy, and We levelled to the ground the great works and fine buildings which Pharaoh and his people erected (with such pride).

 

The aggressors on both sides will face the fate of so many generations in the past who chose their path:

 

30:10 in the long run evil in the extreme will be the End of those who do evil; for that they rejected the Signs of Allah, and held them up to ridicule.

 

I encourage you to read the following:

 

http://www.saidnursi.com/words/w22.html

Yusuf
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