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Pati
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Quote Pati Replybullet Posted: 05 June 2010 at 2:22am
Hi,
 
I saw posts like this one, talking about "the contradictions of the Bible" lot of times, and I respect them.
 
But after time, I realize that the "contradictions of the Bible searchers" are not reading the Bible, but just taking the information. That's a big mistake, in my opinion.
 
As believers, we should accept and respect the Holy Books of each religion, and whenever we have a doubt coming from any of the Books, just look for the answer asking to the people who may know this answer.
 
To read the Bible just looking for mistakes or contradicitions is for me a time losing, and against all God Commandements. And at the same time, if any Christian is reading the Quran just to talk in bad way about it, is against God wish.
 
We really don't respect each other, when instead of increasing our knowledge just keep fighting and defending our "truth" as the best and the only one. There is nothing absolutely true but the existance of only one God.
 
Regards
No God wants the killing, but the peace.
The weapons are carried by people, not by religions.
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Quote Mansoor_ali Replybullet Posted: 05 June 2010 at 9:17am
Originally posted by Larry

Hasan, To belive that the Holy Bible contains contradictions is correct, any work done by the hand of man, even under Divine guidance, is subject to error and contradiction.


 God's words contain contradiction?Absolutely not but if yes then it is not word of God.

Originally posted by Larry

The Holy Qur'an itself (I read it in it's entirety also) contains contradictory elements when dealing with the treatment of "Peoples of the Book", the role of the Jews and their relationship with God as His chosen people, etc.


 It is your misunderstanding.Quran doesnot contain such kind of contradiction.

Originally posted by Larry

Does this make the Holy Qur'an valueless? Of course not, but anyone saying that every word and thought in the Qur'an is without ANY error or contradiction is deceiving themself.


 How we are deceiving ourself?explain please?

Originally posted by Larry

The thing I noticed about the Holy Qur'an is that it is very different from the Holy Bible in style and form, but the overall picture is that the Holy Bible and the Holy Qur'an are in substantial agreement on most subjects and topics. Both books are worthy and deserving of respect from any believer in God, especially the spiritual descendents of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Ishmael.


 There are some similarities between Quran and Bible and i agree.Because both are from same God.

 But Bible of today is not real Bible of Jesus Christ.

 We only believe in those parts of Bible which agree with Quran.

 Muhammad in mentioned in Bible as a Prophet so you must follow him.

 Visit:Isaiah prophecises Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.
        Prophet Muhammad was foretold by the name in the Old Scriptures!
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Quote Larry Replybullet Posted: 05 June 2010 at 3:58pm
How are you deceiving yourself? Because you claim that the Bible has errors but state that the Qur'an is perfect and anyone who has read the Qur'an knows that there are contradictions within it, especially the many statements regarding the beliefs and practices of the "People of the Book." But just because you say there are no contradictions in the Qur'an doesn't make it so. You act as if everyone should accept the Qur'an without question. But in Islam it is forbidden to question the Qur'an under any circumstances.

"But Bible of today is not real Bible of Jesus Christ." I don't know where you came up with this idea, perhaps you can explain what you mean.

Muhammad is mentioned in Bible as a Prophet so you must follow him." If you are saying that Muhammad is specifically mentioned in the Bible then you must have a Bible that I have never heard of, Muhammad is never mentioned or named in the Bible. If Muslims want to distort the Bible to fit their theology that is their thing. Perhaps you can quote the passages in the Bible that mention the Prophet Muhammad?
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Quote JOUBERAR Replybullet Posted: 05 June 2010 at 8:28pm
Originally posted by Mansoor_ali

Originally posted by Larry

Hasan, To belive that the Holy Bible contains contradictions is correct, any work done by the hand of man, even under Divine guidance, is subject to error and contradiction.


 God's words contain contradiction?Absolutely not but if yes then it is not word of God.

Originally posted by Larry

The Holy Qur'an itself (I read it in it's entirety also) contains contradictory elements when dealing with the treatment of "Peoples of the Book", the role of the Jews and their relationship with God as His chosen people, etc.


 It is your misunderstanding.Quran doesnot contain such kind of contradiction.

Originally posted by Larry

Does this make the Holy Qur'an valueless? Of course not, but anyone saying that every word and thought in the Qur'an is without ANY error or contradiction is deceiving themself.


 How we are deceiving ourself?explain please?

Originally posted by Larry

The thing I noticed about the Holy Qur'an is that it is very different from the Holy Bible in style and form, but the overall picture is that the Holy Bible and the Holy Qur'an are in substantial agreement on most subjects and topics. Both books are worthy and deserving of respect from any believer in God, especially the spiritual descendents of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Ishmael.


 There are some similarities between Quran and Bible and i agree.Because both are from same God.

 But Bible of today is not real Bible of Jesus Christ.

 We only believe in those parts of Bible which agree with Quran.

 Muhammad in mentioned in Bible as a Prophet so you must follow him.

 Visit:Isaiah prophecises Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.
        Prophet Muhammad was foretold by the name in the Old Scriptures!
 
What parts of the bible agree with the Quran come please show me.
 
If you think this was a prophecy than you and all the professors must go and ask your money back and read this properly and don't make any accusations of any prophecy.

Isa 21:6 For thus hath the Lord said unto me, Go, set a watchman: let him declare what he seeth:

 As you can read you will every horse camel and asses is more then and was when the Jews was at war this is a so called prophecy of your false prophet.

Isa 21:7 and when he seeth a troop, horsemen in pairs, a troop of asses, a troop of camels, he shall hearken diligently with much heed.

Isa 21:8 And he cried as a lion: O Lord, I stand continually upon the watch-tower in the day-time, and am set in my ward whole nights;

Isa 21:9 and, behold, here cometh a troop of men, horsemen in pairs. And he answered and said, Fallen, fallen is Babylon; and all the graven images of her gods are broken unto the ground.

Isa 21:10 O thou my threshing, and the grain of my floor! that which I have heard from Jehovah of hosts, the God of Israel, have I declared unto you.

Isa 21:11 The burden of Dumah. One calleth unto me out of Seir, Watchman, what of the night? Watchman, what of the night?

Isa 21:12 The watchman said, The morning cometh, and also the night: if ye will inquire, inquire ye: turn ye, come.

 The "lost people of Israel" are the people of Afghanistan and Kashmir today what a laugh muslims will bend over backwards to forge and force thier false believes in the bible with thir so called prophecies of Muhammad.

Muhammad was predicted to come in the Gospel of John:

Just a quick note, the Arabic word "Muhammad" is an expression which means "The honorable one" or "The glorified one" or "The admirable".  Prophet Muhammad was the first in the Middle East to be named "Muhammad".  Below, you will see how Jesus in today's Gospel of John had called this human Prophet which he predicted his comming "The honorable one".

Jesus in the Greek Bible used the Greek word "Periklytos" which means the admirable or glorified one. He called that predicted human prophet "Periklytos".  This word corresponds exactly to the Arabic word "Muhammad" which also means the "admired one" or "glorified one." In other words, "Periklytos" is "Muhammad" in Greek.

Let us start...

In the Bible we can find the following four passages wherein Jesus (peace be upon him) predicts a great event:

John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever"

John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me"

John 14:26 "But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

John 16:7-14 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you."

In these four verses, the word "comforter" is translated from the word "Paraclete" ("Ho Parakletos" in Greek). Parakletos in Greek is interpreted as "an advocate", one who pleads the cause of another, one who councils or advises another from deep concern for the other's welfare (Beacon Bible commentary volume VII, p.168). In these verses we are told that once Jesus (peace be upon him) departs, a Paraclete will come. He will glorify Jesus (peace be upon him), and he will guide mankind into all truth. This "Paraclete" is identified in John 14:26 as the Holy Ghost.

It must be pointed out that the original Greek manuscripts speak of a "Holy pneuma." The word pneuma {pnyoo'-mah} is the Greek root word for "spirit." There is no separate word for "Ghost" in the Greek manuscripts, of which there are claimed to be over 24,000 today. The translators of the King James Version of the Bible translate this word as "Ghost" to convey their own personal understanding of the text. However, a more accurate translation is "Holy Spirit." More faithful and recent translations of the Bible, such as the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV), do indeed now translate it as "Holy Spirit." This is significant, and will be expounded upon shortly.

All Bibles in existence today are compiled from "ancient manuscripts," the most ancient of which being those of the fourth century C.E. Any scholar of the Bible will tell us that no two ancient manuscripts are exactly identical. All Bibles in our possession today are the result of extensive cutting and pasting from these various manuscripts with no single one being the definitive reference.

What the translators of the Bible have done when presented with such discrepancies is to do their best to choose the correct version. In other words, since they can not know which "ancient manuscript" is the correct one, they must do a little detective work on the text in order to decide which "version" of a given verse to accept. John 14:26 is just such an example of such selection techniques.

John 14:26 is the only verse of the Bible which associates the Parakletos with the Holy Spirit. But if we were to go back to the "ancient manuscripts" themselves, we would find that they are not all in agreement that the "Parakletos" is the Holy Spirit. For instance, in the famous the Codex Syriacus, written around the fifth century C.E., and discovered in 1812 on Mount Sinai by Mrs.Agnes S. Lewis (and Mrs. Bensley), the text of 14:26 reads; "Paraclete, the Spirit"; and not "Paraclete, the Holy Spirit.".

 Look how the muslims are using the scripture that they are slandering with corruption and evil is now good enough for a false prophecie

There had been many cases of deliberate modification of the Biblical text by members of the Christian clergy themselves, as well as deliberate large scale projects to "correct" the Bible, and the writings of "the early fathers," (such as the deliberate insertion of the verse of 1 John 5:7 which is now universally discarded) It is, therefore, possible that either:

1) The word "Holy" could have been dropped by a careless copyist., or

2) Someone could have inserted the word "Holy" to convey his personal understanding of the text.

Which was it? In order to arrive at the answer we must follow the same path of detective work the Biblical scholars themselves do. We must study the characteristics of the "Paraclete" and compare them to both the "Holy Spirit" and to a "Spirit." Muslims believe that Muhammad (peace be upon him) was the one intended and not the Holy Ghost. In the Christian's own "Gospel of Barnabas" Muhammad is mentioned by name here. The Trinitarian church, however, has done its utmost to obliterate all existing copies of "The Gospel of Barnabas," and to hide it from the masses or to label it a forgery (see chapter 7). For this reason, it becomes necessary to show that even the Gospels adopted by Paul's church also originally spoke of Muhammad (peace be upon him).

How could it be if Muhammad didn't even know the exact place in the the where his so called prophecies was, he and his so called angel should have known in which texts in the bible his prophcies must have originated but nowadays The muslims try thier utmost best to find a so called prophecy or a look  like prohecy in the bible JUST to restore thier false prophet's name.
 
 
 
The power of this indwelling "paraclete" gives us the ability to "live by the Spirit so that we will not gratify the desires of the sinful flesh" and "Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit (Galatians 5:16, 25). We, then, can have the "fruit of the Spirit" produced in our own lives (Galatians 5:22, 23) to the glory of God the Father. What a blessing to have the Holy Spirit in our lives as our "paraclete," our Comforter, our Encourager, our Counselor, and our Advocate. Thank you, Father, for your wonderful gift!
 
As you can read this is the spirit of God the holy spirit and not the unholy false prophet Muhammad.

 

 


 
 
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Quote Mansoor_ali Replybullet Posted: 08 June 2010 at 9:41am
Originally posted by Larry

How are you deceiving yourself? Because you claim that the Bible has errors but state that the Qur'an is perfect and anyone who has read the Qur'an knows that there are contradictions within it, especially the many statements regarding the beliefs and practices of the "People of the Book."


 Show me where is contradiction?

Originally posted by Larry

But just because you say there are no contradictions in the Qur'an doesn't make it so. You act as if everyone should accept the Qur'an without question. But in Islam it is forbidden to question the Qur'an under any circumstances.


 Where you read that it is forbidden to question the Quran?


Originally posted by Larry

"But Bible of today is not real Bible of Jesus Christ." I don't know where you came up with this idea, perhaps you can explain what you mean.


 You also agree with me that Bible contains contradiction.So my question is how God's words contain contradiction?We agree with those parts of Bible which donot contradict with Quran.For muslims Quran and Sunna is standard.

 Now how i came up with this idea?Do you know many authors of Bible are unknown so how can i believe that your Bible is written by real disciples of Jesus Christ?Even you have no any original documents.Even christian community is not agreed on same type of Bible e.g Protestant and Catholic donot have common Bible.This is not a case with Sunni and Shia.Quran is same for every sect of Islam but it is not a case with Bible.

Originally posted by Larry

Muhammad is mentioned in Bible as a Prophet so you must follow him." If you are saying that Muhammad is specifically mentioned in the Bible then you must have a Bible that I have never heard of, Muhammad is never mentioned or named in the Bible. If Muslims want to distort the Bible to fit their theology that is their thing. Perhaps you can quote the passages in the Bible that mention the Prophet Muhammad?


 There are many debates over this issue.But let's suppose Muhammad is not mentioned then its mean he is not Prophet?No because for muslims Quran and Sunna is standard not Bible.

 But there are some passages where it is indication for Muhammad.

 For excample:John 14:16,John 15:26,John 16:7-14 etc

 
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Quote Mansoor_ali Replybullet Posted: 08 June 2010 at 10:47am
Originally posted by JOUBERAR

What parts of the bible agree with the Quran come please show me.


 For example:

 Qur'an 17:23 
 Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him . . . 

 Exodus 20:3 
 You shall have no other gods before Me
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
Qur'an 17:33
 Nor take life which Allah has made sacred . . .

 Exodus 20:13
 You shall not kill

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Qur'an 17:32
 Nor come nigh to adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils).

 Exodus 20:14 
 You shall not commit Adultery

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 There are many but those are enough.

 
Originally posted by JOUBERAR

The power of this indwelling "paraclete" gives us the ability to "live by the Spirit so that we will not gratify the desires of the sinful flesh" and "Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit (Galatians 5:16, 25). We, then, can have the "fruit of the Spirit" produced in our own lives (Galatians 5:22, 23) to the glory of God the Father. What a blessing to have the Holy Spirit in our lives as our "paraclete," our Comforter, our Encourager, our Counselor, and our Advocate. Thank you, Father, for your wonderful gift!
 
As you can read this is the spirit of God the holy spirit and not the unholy false prophet Muhammad.


 Shabir Ally beautifully mentioned this point whether it is spirit or Holy spirit in his debate.

 Click here Muhammed In The Bible? Shabir Ally vs Anis Shorrosh  
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Quote JOUBERAR Replybullet Posted: 08 June 2010 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by Mansoor_ali

Originally posted by JOUBERAR

What parts of the bible agree with the Quran come please show me.

 For example:

 Qur'an 17:23 
 Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him . . . 

 Exodus 20:3 
 You shall have no other gods before Me
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
Qur'an 17:33
 Nor take life which Allah has made sacred . . .

 Exodus 20:13
 You shall not kill

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Qur'an 17:32
 Nor come nigh to adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils).

 Exodus 20:14 
 You shall not commit Adultery

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 There are many but those are enough.

 
Originally posted by JOUBERAR

The power of this indwelling "paraclete" gives us the ability to "live by the Spirit so that we will not gratify the desires of the sinful flesh" and "Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit (Galatians 5:16, 25). We, then, can have the "fruit of the Spirit" produced in our own lives (Galatians 5:22, 23) to the glory of God the Father. What a blessing to have the Holy Spirit in our lives as our "paraclete," our Comforter, our Encourager, our Counselor, and our Advocate. Thank you, Father, for your wonderful gift!
 
As you can read this is the spirit of God the holy spirit and not the unholy false prophet Muhammad.


 Shabir Ally beautifully mentioned this point whether it is spirit or Holy spirit in his debate.

 Click here Muhammed In The Bible? Shabir Ally vs Anis Shorrosh  
 
Where did the bible agree with Quran it never ever agreed with Quran because it was writen long before Muhammad apeared in the lime light and the QURAN disagree with the bible cos it mentioned that the bible was corrupted,  I do not want fracments of his self imposed laws that he never obeyed. 
 
 
Mathew 24 make it very clear that Muhammad was a deceiver of mankind.
 
3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

 4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,a]'>[a]' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

The Comforter:

Muslims claim that the Bible has been corrupted. One of their chief arguments refers to the Greek rendering for Comforter "paracletos" which means "advocate" or "helper". Their scholars translate this "paraclytos" and use this to point to Mohammed. The Muslims see Jesus' reference to the coming of the Comforter or helper (the paraclete) as fulfilled by Mohammed. They base this on quaran 61:6 where Mohammed is reckoned to be ahmad ("paraclytos"), "Jesus, the son of Mary, said 0 children of Israel! I am the apostle of God ... giving glad tidings of an apostle to come after me whose name shall be ahmad."
In all 5,366 manuscripts of the New Testament there is no reference to paraclytos (praised one,) so there is no textual evidence for this claim.
In sura 16:102 and sura 26:192-194 Mohammed's call was issued by the Holy Spirit who according to their teaching is the angel Gabriel. In contrast according to the Bible the Comforter is the Holy Spirit (John 14:26) who is God. This conflict certainly shows the Biblical illiteracy of the Koran's author.
What's more according to the Bible the very purpose of the coming of this helper is to bear witness to the truth who is Jesus (c/f John 14:6). And furthermore this helper whom Jesus and the Father would send would be in Christians and would abide with them forever (John 14:17). How can Mohammed be said to be living in Christians today after being dead 13 centuries?
In John 16:13 Jesus tells us that the Holy Spirit will not speak on His own authority but that. He will glorify Christ (v. 14) and will take what is Jesus' and declare it unto you.
In Sura 33:40 Mohammed says of himself that he is the apostle of God, the seal of the prophets. This means that he supersedes Jesus who is an inferior prophet. He is speaking on his own authority, which is something that Jesus said his helper would not do. (Jesus also said that John the Baptist is the greatest prophet ever among men - Matt 11:11.).
One of the arguments for Mohammed being the helper is that Jesus promised to send another of the same kind (like Himself). Since Muslims look upon Jesus as being only a man, a prophet, to them this had to mean that He was going to send another man. They reject Jesus' deity and the fact that He pre existed as God's Son, who is spirit and that this was His eternal nature. He took upon Himself a human nature as an addition but He always existed as God's Son. The Bible clearly teaches that the Holy Spirit is also God and that when Jesus said that He would send another like Himself it was to be of the same kind (eternal) in like nature. The Spirit would be with us forever which is something only God can promise and perform.
The timing of when the helper would be sent certainly contradicts the Koran. Jesus said that it "would not be many days from now" - see Acts 1:4-5. This was to be at the close of the 40 days, that he appeared after His resurrection. We know that this was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost, 50 days after His crucifixion. Mohammed did not come until 600 years later so this would mean that the disciples did not have the Comforter (paraclete) nor do we today since Mohammed is no longer here.
Another Biblical event that makes this claim by Muslims even more illogical is that the paraclete, who is identified as the Holy Spirit, was brooding over the waters in Genesis 1 and taking part in creation. It is obvious that this could not be Mohammed. Further it was by the same Holy Spirit that the egg inside Mary was impregnated so that she conceived. This certainly is not Mohammed! In addition we are told that the Comforter would be in us. Christians will all have in them the same Holy Spirit. How could this be Mohammed? He was a flesh and blood person who is no longer alive. How could he inhabit Christians , of all people, who do not believe in His teachings? Despite all this evidence, Muslims insist that the paraclete is a person of flesh and blood and not the Holy Spirit who is God Himself.

In conclusion:

The fact that Mohammed said that Jesus was a prophet is a very strong argument that can be used by Christians in their dialogue with Muslims. Just ask the question, "Is Jesus a prophet?" The answer will be "Mohammed said he was." "Can a true prophet lie? Muslims will answer in the negative.
"Well if Jesus is a true prophet then whatever he said should be heeded. Jesus claimed to be the only way to God. If Jesus is right then Mohammed is wrong. If Jesus is wrong, Mohammed is still wrong, because he said that Jesus was right."

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Quote Larry Replybullet Posted: 08 June 2010 at 9:43pm
Blah Blah Blah......I haven't got the slightest idea of what all that psychobabble is about but I think you have too much time on your hands and too limited a mind to ber able to express yourself clearly. BTW, were you ever abducted by aliens?
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