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Khadija1021
 
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Quote Khadija1021 Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2005 at 10:19am

Originally posted by Rezz

Mockba, you said in another discussion

The answer surely is that no man has the right to take another human's life, whatever the circumstances.

Rezz, does you statement mean that you believe a person does not have the right to self defense?

Say: 'My prayer and my rites, my living and my dying, are for Allah alone, the Lord of all the worlds. (Qur'an, 6:162)
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Quote b95000 Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2005 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by DavidC

This misperception of Islam will continue as long as Al-Quaeda continues to
murder innocents in the name of Islam and organizations such as CAIR
respond only with press releases.



It's clear that there must be more than words in response to tragically, recklessly misguided Muslims (whether in Baghdad or London).  Islam, Muslims, must respond by opposing extremist rhetoric and teaching within her schools.  Islamic leaders and persons of influence must remove from positions of influence those imams and teachers that promote any such ideologies..hate and murder speech and acts MUST NOT be tolerated no matter who is doing it to whom.
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Quote b95000 Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2005 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by Khadija1021

Originally posted by Rezz

Mockba, you said in another discussion

The answer surely is that no man has the right to take another human's life, whatever the circumstances.

Rezz, does you statement mean that you believe a person does not have the right to self defense?



How would you define self defense?
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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2005 at 8:06am

British public are about the best we could find in our world at any time. They just refuse to be fooled by any BS or spin while our American friends are forced to ask stupid questions like "How do you define self defense"?

It's an English expression. You should be able to translate it for us. I think, it means something like that when you are invaded or occupied then you should not just sit back for the pleasure of the Washington gang, but fight back as hard as possible - exactly like what's happening in Afghanistan and Eyerak.



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Quote Rezz Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2005 at 11:34am


[/QUOTE]

Rezz, does you statement mean that you believe a person does not have the right to self defense?

[/QUOTE]

What is "self defence"?

If a man attacks my family or me with a stick can I be-head him with a sword?

How do I know for sure that I could not have saved myself or my family without killing the aggressor?

In English law we have concept of "Reasonable Force".

This prevent people from killing and claiming "Self Defence" as mitigation in Law.

Does Islam have an equivalent safe-guard?


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Quote Khadija1021 Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2005 at 12:46pm

Originally posted by Rezz

What is "self defence"?

If a man attacks my family or me with a stick can I be-head him with a sword?

How do I know for sure that I could not have saved myself or my family without killing the aggressor?

In English law we have concept of "Reasonable Force".

This prevent people from killing and claiming "Self Defence" as mitigation in Law.

Does Islam have an equivalent safe-guard?


Originally posted by Whisper

British public are about the best we could find in our world at any time. They just refuse to be fooled by any BS or spin while our American friends are forced to ask stupid questions like "How do you define self defense"?

 

And, just to take attention off their flag.

 

It means that when you are attacked or occupied you fight back. That is self defense. Comprende?

 

 

Oops Whisper, I guess Rezz just proved you wrong on that one.  Or is there something uniquely different about an American who asks the same question as someone from the UK?  I’m sure you probably have one of your twisted little “justifications” stuck up your sleeve to help you keep your stanch opinion of Americans tightly under your foot.  But you aren’t a black/white thinker, right?  And you don’t hate Americans, right?

 

Rezz, I guess I will have to say that it depends on the circumstances around the situation of the man with the stick.  If you were all at a park trying to brake a Piñata and the man is blind folded with the stick in his hand and he is mistakenly swinging it at you/your family, I think cutting his head off with a sword would be a bit drastic, don’t you?  However, if he has broken into your house and is swinging a baseball bat at one of your children’s heads, I hope you would do something more than say, “Excuse me sir, you are swinging that in the wrong direction.”  Or, that you would not take the time to access the situation to see what would case the man the least amount of damage…unless you prefer to assess the damage to your child’s skull as well.  If someone came into my house and was swinging a bat at one of my children’s heads, I sure would feel justified in using a sword to stop him.  Actually, it would probably be a butcher knife since I don’t own a sword or a gun.  And, I probably would aim for a vital organ instead of trying to cut off his head.  That would be much easier for me (I’m short) and it would probably create far less of a messy.  It’s one thing to have to protect my family yet another to have to clean up the mess left hind…yuck!

 

Below is the definition for self-defense:

 

1.  Defense of oneself when physically attacked.

 

2.  Defense of what belongs to oneself, as one's works or reputation.

 

3.  Law The right to protect oneself against violence or threatened

violence with whatever force or means are reasonably necessary.

 

We also have laws in the US which are meant to keep a person from unjustly killing someone and then screaming “self-defense;” unfortunately, GWB doesn’t seem to believe those laws applies to him and his army…but then again, neither do the Blairs and Ben Ladens of this world.    

 

PAZ, Khadija

 

Say: 'My prayer and my rites, my living and my dying, are for Allah alone, the Lord of all the worlds. (Qur'an, 6:162)
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Quote MOCKBA Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2005 at 7:44pm

Bismillah

Rezz, as with death punishment there are some strict conditions to be met before killing becomes acceptable.  

We can come up with volumes of definitions of "self-defence", "liberty", "freedom", "justice"... to suit everyone's stand. As far as killing is concerned, i am still puzzled as to how conveniently people refuse to see the worngdoing they commit upon others which occasionally hits them back.

We've heard of innocent Americans suffering from their President's phobias, we'ver heard of Londoners who are in no way related to Mr. Blair... however those very same people refuse to hear the message of Islam condemning suicide attacks? 

Where are you when your leaders mutilate humans with tons of explosives on countries far away... claiming to be looking for weapons they will never find. Why do you begin questioning killing only when it comes as a retaliation for slaughter? Why not pause for a moment and work harder to stop slaughter? Perchance it will stop killing.

 

 

  

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Submit to Alah
 
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Quote Submit to Alah Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2005 at 6:16am
dd

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