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Full of Hopes
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Posted: 16 October 2009 at 7:37am

Originally posted by JOUBERAR

You are such a wise men then come and tell me what is the characteristics of true Prophet was Muhammad a true Prophet or not and explain your answer.

Ok. if you really seek the truth. This question is answered by thousands of books and libraries. So I advise you to educate yourself about prophet Muhammed peace be upon him. Read about his life and his miracles, just in case you really want to know the truth. Even you can find these books written by non- Muslims because some historians tell the truth without being affected by their own believes or feelings. They have written the truth about my beloved prophet Muhammed peace be upon him. Believe me if you really want the truth God will guide you to it and make it clear to your heart.

And yes we believe in prophet Jesus peace be upon him miracles. We love him and the one who hates him or denies him is not considered a Muslim. We have been told of my beloved prophet Jesus peace be upon him miracles in Quarran. He is one of the five special prophets mentioned in Quraan. We, Muslims believe in all of the prophets without denying any one of them. we believe in all of the books without denying any one of them. We believe in Jesus as a great prophet who was created by a miracle form God to test the people's faith. Some passed the test while some failed. In stead of considering this a miracle, a son without a father, they thought he is the son of the God. God/Allah has no wife nor son, subhanah, He is The ONLY one, who is NEEDLESS.

God/Allah created Adam, peace be upon him, without a father nor a mother. Then Eve without a mother form Adam's body, then Jesus without a father, form the body of the blessed Virgin, Mary, peace be upon her.

And we say that Christianity used to be the truth but not after your scholars have changed it to be their own words and thoughts not God/ Allah's actual words. If it is the truth Allah told you about the prophet Muhammed peace be upon him in the book, and prophet Jesus told you of him.

One last point is that even prophet Jesus peace be upon him did not tell you to worship him and you all know this but still deny it.

Satan needs some company in the hell fire that is why he promised to mislead the human beings through denying the prophets or one of them, peace be upon them. Muslims have no problem with any prophet. Allah is GREAT.

Edited by Full of Hopes - 16 October 2009 at 8:10am

And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)

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JOUBERAR

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Posted: 23 October 2009 at 3:49pm

Originally posted by Full of Hopes

Originally posted by JOUBERAR

You are such a wise men then come and tell me what is the characteristics of true Prophet was Muhammad a true Prophet or not and explain your answer.

Obviously, God does not put conceptual contradictions within His communication system. Neither does He give later prophets an “erase” or “delete” button. The unchangeableness of God will be reflected in His revelations to men and women.

Isaiah notes that genuine prophets will be tested by their faithfulness to previously written revelations: “To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them” (chap. 8:20).

Many are the attempts in every generation to define the “truth” about man’s origin and destiny. Plentiful are the intellectual ventures that try to spell out the “rights” and “wrongs” for human conduct. But the Bible has endured the centuries as the great test for men and women everywhere, under all conditions, as to the truth about human origin and morality. The Bible is not only inspired truth, it is the final standard of any claim to inspiration.

Every successive prophet, in Old or New Testament times, has made all previous prophetic writings the benchmark for his or her own ministry. Each, in a sense, was a lesser light that pointed to the greater light. Paul succinctly summed up this relationship: “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work” (2 Tim. 3:16, 17).

This second test of a prophet’s authenticity is clear and inescapable. Though later prophets reveal additional insights as to God’s thoughts regarding the plan of salvation, they will not contradict the basic concepts already given.

The setting for the test of fruitage is found in the Sermon on the Mount, as it deals specifically with “false prophets”: “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. . . . Therefore by their fruits you will know them” (Matt. 7:15-20).

What kind of person do the prophet’s contemporaries see and hear? What is the general tenor of his or her life? Reliable or inconsistent? Worldly or godly? Faithful to commitments or unfaithful? Do his or her teachings exalt the written Word, or do they create new and exotic paths that do not find their basis in the Word? Above all else, Does the prophet reflect accurately the clear, consistent Biblical message? What is the result of the prophet’s leadership? Under his/her guidance, does the work of God prosper in ways that best fulfill the gospel mission? Do others see the prophet’s walk with the Lord as consistent? Do sinners find the Lord through his or her writings?

Unfortunately, through the years many have followed ecstatic, charismatic men and women who have assumed the credentials of a prophet. Great money-chests have been collected and massive religious empires have been created. But we must ask, Does the leader reflect the simple life style exemplified by Biblical prophets and by the Lord Himself? Most times, this test quickly categorizes self-promoted “prophets” as pretenders.

There are a number of ways in which Moses was like Jesus, but unlike Muhammad:
Moses had no known tomb, but died on Mount Nebo (Deut. 34:6).
Moses came out of Egypt at the Exodus, and Jesus went to Egypt as a baby and returned.
Moses was brought up by his mother as a nurse in Pharaoh's household, and Jesus was brought up by Mary, but Muhammad was an orphan. Moses was saved as a baby in the rushes; Jesus was saved when God told Joseph to take him to Egypt.
Moses was transfigured on Mt. Sinai (Exodus 34:29) and Jesus was transfigured in Matthew 17:1-6.
Moses offered to take the sins of Israel on himself in Exodus 32:30-32; Jesus was sacrificed for the sins of mankind.
Even at this level of argument there are more points of similarity between Jesus and Moses than there are between Muhammad and Moses. Not only that, but some of the points where Jesus seems to be different from Moses only appear because the Moslems have not considered the whole of the life of Jesus. For example, Jesus was rejected by his people and has not been accepted by them yet. But the time will come when they will look on him whom they have pierced (Zech. 12:10) and God will cleanse them (Ezek. 36:26-31). Similarly, Jesus will become a national leader and will encounter his enemies in battle (Zech. 14:3).
In Deuteronomy 18:18 God tells Moses to inform Israel that the prophet was to be from among their brethren, which means that he would have to be an Israelite. Moslems who dispute this assert that, as the Arabs are the brothers of the Jews, this refers to an Arab. However, there is no scriptural evidence to support this. The Arabs are never called the brethren of the Jews in the Bible. There are a few verses where Edom is described as the brother (singular) of Israel (e.g. Num. 20:14; Deut. 23:7; Amos 1:11), but the word brethren (plural) is never used. In any case, Muhammad is not a descendent of Edom (who joined the Jews in the second century BC), but of Ishmael, who is never referred to as the brother of Israel. This can only mean that the prophet like unto Moses was to be an Israelite.

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JOUBERAR

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Posted: 24 October 2009 at 11:11am

Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah

Originally posted by JOUBERAR

Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah

Originally posted by JOUBERAR

Who is the weee led the children of Isreal across the the sea was it God and Moses Allah and and Moses or Muhammad and Allah?This is also caravan camp fire story that Muhammad may have heard or his compannions this contradicts the the torah clearly Pharaoh is in no ways saved this show you Muhammad lied openly and muslims still believe him,Like Noah had a forth son who drown in the the flood because he wasn't muslim, once if you started lying the lies goes on and on, thats Muhammad did he lied so much he believed himself.

Astaghfirullah!When the Qur'an says "We" it is talking about Allah and his Angels or with the help of Allah his Prophets did so and so.You fail to understand.You have the verses above in your face.

O I thought Allah do not need intercessors to do his work Allah is nor begotten or beget this shows how Allah contradict himself and the Quran.

Astaghfirullah!Ok now you are still misunderstanding.look at it this way even in the Bible Allah sent an Angel to Mary and (Hagar)for example,And the Angel of the lord said unto her ,behold,thou art with child,and shalt bear a son,and shalt call his name Ishmael.this is a new low for you

Hagar concieved Ishmael form Abram not an Angel.

"Now Sarai, Abram's wife, bore him no children. She had an Egyptian maid whose name was Hagar; and Sarai said to Abram, "Behold now, The Lord has prevented me from bearing children; go in to my maid; it may be that I shall obtain children by her."

"And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai. So, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, Sarai, Abram's wife, took Hagar the Egyptian, her maid, and gave her to Abram her husband as a wife. And he went in to Hagar, and she conceived; and when she saw that she had conceived, she looked with contempt on her mistress."

"And Sarai said to Abram, "May the wrong done to me be on you! I gave my maid to your embrace, and when she saw that she had conceived, she looked on me with contempt. May The Lord judge between you and me!"

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KanzunQALAM
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Posted: 16 December 2009 at 9:51pm

Prophet Muhammad [pbuh] said:

"Allâh selected Ishmael from the sons of Abraham, Kinana from the sons of Ishmael, Quraish from the sons of Kinana, Hashim from the sons of Quraish and He selected me from the sons of Hashim." [Muslim 2/245; Tirmidhi 2/201]

The first part: Muhammad bin ‘Abdullah bin ‘Abdul-Muttalib (who was called Shaiba) bin Hashim, (named ‘Amr) bin ‘Abd Munaf (called Al-Mugheera) bin Qusai (also called Zaid) bin Kilab bin Murra bin Ka‘b bin Lo’i bin Ghalib bin Fahr (who was called Quraish and whose tribe was called after him) bin Malik bin An-Nadr (so called Qais) bin Kinana bin Khuzaiman bin Mudrikah (who was called ‘Amir) bin Elias bin Mudar bin Nizar bin Ma‘ad bin ‘Adnan. [Ibn Hisham 1/1,2; Talqeeh Fuhoom Ahl Al-Athar, p. 5-6; Rahmat-ul-lil'alameen 2/11-14,52]

The second part: ‘Adnan bin Add bin Humaisi‘ bin Salaman bin Aws bin Buz bin Qamwal bin Obai bin ‘Awwam bin Nashid bin Haza bin Bildas bin Yadlaf bin Tabikh bin Jahim bin Nahish bin Makhi bin Aid bin ‘Abqar bin ‘Ubaid bin Ad-Da‘a bin Hamdan bin Sanbir bin Yathrabi bin Yahzin bin Yalhan bin Ar‘awi bin Aid bin Deshan bin Aisar bin Afnad bin Aiham bin Muksar bin Nahith bin Zarih bin Sami bin Mazzi bin ‘Awda bin Aram bin Qaidar bin Ishmael son of Abraham [Rahmat-ul-lil'alameen 2/14-17]

Prophet Muhammeds Lineage is:

Muhammad Rasulullah bin Abdullah bin Abdu Muthalib bin Hasyim (Bani Hasyim) bin Abdu Manaf bin Qushay bin Kilab bin Murrah bin Ka'ab bin Lu'ay bin Ghalib bin Fihr (Quraisy Clan) bin Malik bin Al Nadhar bin Kinanah (Bani Kinanah) bin Khuzayma bin Mudrikah bin Ilyas bin Mudhar bin Nizar bin Ma'ad bin Adnan bin Add bin Humaisi‘ bin Salaman bin Aws bin Buz bin Qamwal bin Obai bin ‘Awwam bin Nashid bin Haza bin Bildas bin Yadlaf bin Tabikh bin Jahim bin Nahish bin Makhi bin Ayd bin ‘Abqar bin ‘Ubayd bin Ad-Da‘a bin Hamdan bin Sanbir bin Yathrabi bin Yahzin bin Yalhan bin Arami bin Ayd bin Deshan bin Aisar bin Afnad bin Aiham bin Muksar bin Nahith bin Zarih bin Sami bin Wazzi bin ‘Awda bin Aram bin Qaidar bin Ismail 'The Prophet' bin Ibrahim 'The Prophet'

Source :
http://www.quranandscience.com/his-b...mily-tree.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bani_Assad

A Samaritan Cohen
http://miriamhakedosha.blogspot.com/

The R1b-ht35 that has been found in Jewish populations may be the true levitical and cohen dna. The so-called famous Cohen Modal Haplotype (CMH) of the J haplogroup is in fact the Samaritan and Saducee cohanim (priests) (J1 and J2) not the cohanim and leviim descended from Aaron and Levi (R-ht35). Dna studies also demonstrate that the y-dna of Mohammed the Muslim prophet is also J1e and thus he was descended from the Ishmaeli ....

Edited by KanzunQALAM - 16 December 2009 at 10:38pm

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Shibboleth

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Posted: 23 February 2010 at 6:50am

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Originally posted by shibboleth

The genealogy fabricated by Ibn-Ishak contradicts the sayings of Mohammed, who expressed his ignorance about his ancestors prior to his 17^th ancestor. Ibn Ishak was considered by the Muslim scholars of his time as being guilty of forgery and fabricating false genealogies. **Mohammed, himself, rejected all of these false genealogies, and he put limits regarding the genealogy of his ancestors. Regarding Mohammed’s own rejection of the false genealogies, Amru bin al-As wrote: Mohammed genealogized himself regarding his ancestors until he reached al-Nather bin Kinaneh, then he said, “anyone who claimed otherwise or added further ancestors, has lied.” By this, Mohammed confessed that neither he, nor anyone else, knew about his ancestors beyond al-Nather bin Kinaneh. Nather bin Kinaneh is the 17th ancestor in the genealogy which Mohammed recognized as true. Other narrations of the customs, or sayings, of Mohammed, called Hadiths, show Mohammed refused to be genealogized prior to Maad, معدwho some suggested, was the 4th ancestor prior to al-Nather bin Kinaneh.

It’s a proven fact that the Torah n’ the Injil does not support that theory n’ other Islamic references. Ishmael never mentioned a Muhammad in general; Ishmaels 12 chieftains never mention any Muhammad or prophet. No wonder Muhammad himself never accepted it, is that so hard to for Muslims to understand and accept? Do you accept what Muhammad said or what others after him want you to believe?

Also note; The following hadith tells us:

Ma`n Ibn `Isa al-Ashja`i al-Qazzaz (silk-merchant) informed us; he said : Mu`awiyah Ibn Salih informed us on the authority of Yahya Ibn Jabir who had seen some Companions of the Prophet and said : The people of Banu Fuhayrah came to the Prophet and said to him : You belong to us. He replied : Verily, (the archangel) Gabriel has informed me that I belong to Mudar. (Ibn Sa`d, "Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir", Vol. I, p. 4)

Thus, Muhammad's genealogy was not common knowledge. In fact, the people of Banu Fuhayrah did not know that Muhammad was a descendent of Mudar. It was Muhammad who claimed that Gabriel told him that he was descended from Mudar. This may form the basis of some hadiths:

Narrated Kulaib:

I was told by the Rabiba (i.e. daughter of the wife of the Prophet) who, I think, was Zainab, that the Prophet (forbade the utensils (of wine called) Ad-Dubba, Al-Hantam, Al-Muqaiyar and Al-Muzaffat. I said to her, 'Tell me as to which tribe the Prophet belonged; was he from the tribe of Mudar?'' She replied, "He belonged to the tribe of Mudar and was from the offspring of An-Nadr bin Kinana. " (Sahih Bukhari 4.698)

"In pre-Islamic times Ishmael was never mentioned as the Father of the Arabs." (W. Aliyyuddin Shareef, In response to Robert Morey's Islamic Invasion, pp. 3-4; bold emphasis ours)

Ibn ‘Abbas is also reputed to have said when he traced back lines of descent as far as ‘Adnan: "The genealogists have LIED. TWICE OR THRICE." And that (scepticism) is even more characteristic of Ibn Mas‘ud, whose (attitude) was like that of Ibn ‘Abbas.

‘Umar b. al-Khattab stated, "We carry back the genealogy ONLY AS FAR AS ‘ADNAN."

The next section comes from Ibn Sa‘d:

.. he on the authority of Ibn ‘Abbas; he said: Verily the Prophet (may peace be upon him), WHENEVER he related his genealogy, DID NOT GO BEYOND MA‘ADD IBN ‘ADNAN IBN UDAD, then he kept quiet and said: The narrators of genealogy ARE LIARS, since Allah says: "There passed many generations between them."

Ibn ‘Abbas says: The Prophet would have been informed of the genealogy (prior to Adnan by Allah) if he (Prophet) had so wished.

.. he on the authority of ‘Abd Allah. Verily he recited "(The tribes of) ‘Ad and Thamud and those after them; NONE SAVETH ALLAH KNOWETH THEM." The genealogists ARE LIARS.

If you have to use outside sources other than God’s words to trace ANY prophet of God genealogy back to their ancestors, that in itself should tell you that it’s not base on fact but on fiction - the class of literature comprising works of imaginative narration.

And you believe it because someone told you to believe.

1 John 4:1 Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world.

Greetings

Edited by Shibboleth - 23 February 2010 at 6:59am

“If you doubt what we have revealed to you, ask those who have read the Scriptures before you.” (Sura 10, Yunis [Jonah], verse 94) & (Surah Al ‘Imran: 84-85)

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Shibboleth

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Posted: 26 October 2010 at 10:06am

Even if Muhammad was a descendant of Ishmael would that make him a Prophet or a Messenger to the Nations? No. Why?

Because even though Ishmael became a mighty nation the God of Israel established a covenant with Sarai Abraham's wife not Hagar Abraham's servant.

Genesis 17:19-21 says to this God said: “Sarah your wife is indeed bearing you a son, and you must call his name Isaac. And I will establish my covenant with him for a covenant to time indefinite to his seed after him. 20 But as regards Ish′ma·el I have heard you. Look! I will bless him and will make him fruitful and will multiply him very, very much. He will certainly produce twelve chieftains, and I will make him become a great nation. 21 However, my covenant I shall establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you at this appointed time next year

Here is another instance where not Muhammad but his followers misapplied the scriptures. Muhammad could not trace his ancestry that far as he himself admitted to.

Muhammad does not even mention Ishmael as being the one whom Abraham was going to sacrifice, surely he would have if he was inspired by the God of Israel.

Here is another instance where not Muhammad but his followers misapplied the scriptures to fit Ishmael.

If this is incorrect please explain why this would not be the case.......

“If you doubt what we have revealed to you, ask those who have read the Scriptures before you.” (Sura 10, Yunis [Jonah], verse 94) & (Surah Al ‘Imran: 84-85)

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Mansoor_ali
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Posted: 27 October 2010 at 5:06pm

To Shibb

Shibb is trying to show that Muhammad is not an Ishmaelite.Here are Islamic responses:

1.Prophet Muhammad Family Tree

2.Response to Sam Shamoun's "Ishmael is not the father of Muhammad"

3.Further comments on "Ishmael is not the father of Muhammad" revisited

May be Shibb argu that no no these are muslim sources and cannot be trusted.

So Mr.Shibb your own christian Arab evangelist Mr.Anis Shorrosh admit in his book "Islam Revealed" that Muhammad was an descendant of Ishmael.

Here you can purchase his book.

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Shibboleth

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Posted: 01 November 2010 at 9:32am

Originally posted by Mansoor_ali

Shibb is trying to show that Muhammad is not an Ishmaelite

Not Shibboleth, Muhammad! And I agree because their is no genealogy of him in his own book, the Quran. Don't you think it would be there if it were true? If you have to go outside the Quran to figure this out, that alone tells me that it's not inspired of God but of men!

The genealogy fabricated by Ibn-Ishak contradicts the sayings of Mohammed, who expressed his ignorance about his ancestors prior to his 17^th ancestor. Ibn Ishak was considered by the Muslim scholars of his time as being guilty of forgery and fabricating false genealogies

**Mohammed, himself, rejected all of these false genealogies, and he put limits regarding the genealogy of his ancestors. Regarding Mohammed’s own rejection of the false genealogies, Amru bin al-As wrote:

Mohammed genealogized himself regarding his ancestors until he reached al-Nather bin Kinaneh, then he said, “anyone who claimed otherwise or added further ancestors, has lied.”

That's enough evidence for me!! But here's more. .... .

By this, Mohammed confessed that neither he, nor anyone else,knew about his ancestors beyond al-Nather bin Kinaneh. Natherbin Kinaneh is the 17th ancestor in the genealogy which Mohammed recognized as true. Other narrations of the customs, or sayings, of Mohammed, called Hadiths, show Mohammed refused to be genealogized prior to Maad, معدwho some suggested, was the 4th ancestor prior to al-Nather bin Kinaneh.

SAYYID - a descendent of Muhammad, refering to his household. Since Fatima is the only child of Muhammad who survived him, and the only one who had children herself, the term refers to the descendents of Fatima and Ali, the 4th caliph.

Great honor is given to these people in all Islamic communities.

The title Sayyid is passed on from a man to his sons and daughters, so that there are male and female Sayyids. However, a woman cannot pass this title on to her children.

This is somewhat ironic, since there is no purely male line of descendency back to Muhammad, and the only way anyone can be a Sayyid is through the female link of Fatima.

This is one of many ways how men in the male-oriented and male-dominated system of Islam have secured privileges for themselves, even though by this rule, they couldn't legitimately own their own title.

The following hadith tells us:

Ma`n Ibn `Isa al-Ashja`i al-Qazzaz (silk-merchant) informed us; he said : Mu`awiyah Ibn Salih informed us on the authority of Yahya Ibn Jabir who had seen some Companions of the Prophet and said : The people of Banu Fuhayrah came to the Prophet and said to him : You belong to us. He replied : Verily, (the archangel) Gabriel has informed me that I belong to Mudar. (Ibn Sa`d, "Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir", Vol. I, p. 4)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122669909279629451.html

http://religionresearchinstitute.org/Mohammad/ishmael.htm

Edited by Shibboleth - 01 November 2010 at 10:12am

“If you doubt what we have revealed to you, ask those who have read the Scriptures before you.” (Sura 10, Yunis [Jonah], verse 94) & (Surah Al ‘Imran: 84-85)

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