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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: Is the Bible Still the Word of God? Post Reply Post New Topic
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Akhe Abdullah
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Quote Akhe Abdullah Replybullet Posted: 08 September 2009 at 9:00am
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt

Once again, point out the verses in the Old Testament that prophesy that God would send himself to earth in human form to be a blood sacrifice so that his perpetual covenants would no longer matter. And the verses that state that God gave the Laws to Moses ONLY to prepare for the coming of Jesus. </SPAN>

I'm waiting also to see this
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Quote Mansoor_ali Replybullet Posted: 08 September 2009 at 1:10pm

Originally posted by Shibboleth

PROOF THAT THE BIBLE BEEN ACCURATELY PRESEVED.

 

By studying the thousands of manuscripts extant in our time and comparing them with one another, we can see that the original text has been accurately passed down to us. A report published in 1971 shows that there are possibly 6,000 handwritten copies containing all or part of the Hebrew Scriptures; the oldest dates back to the third century B.C.E. Of the Christian Greek Scriptures, there are some 5,000 in Greek, the oldest dating back to the beginning of the second century C.E.

 

More than 13,000 manuscripts of the Greek Scriptures are said to be available today. A study of them shows that the original text of the Christian Greek Scriptures has also been preserved accurately, the oldest dating back to the beginning of the second century C.E.

 

For example, the Institute for New Testament Textual Studies in Germany has made about 95 percent of its approximately 5,300 handwritten copies of the Christian Greek Scriptures available for scientific study, either on microfilm or in photographs. A comparison of them shows just how exact the transmission of the Bible text down to our day has been. The interval of time between the original writing of the Christian Greek Scriptures and the writing of the oldest extant papyrus manuscripts is very short, not more than 25 years.

 Here are responses by muslims:
 
 Who Authored the New Testament By brother Bassam Zawadi
 
 Is the Bible Reliable? By brother Jalal Abualrub
 
 Examining The Bible By brother Dr. M S M Saifullah and his team
 
 Whose canon is divinely inspired? By brother Ibn Anwar
 
 Historical Inaccuracy of Luke By brother Ibn Anwar
 
 When did the Bible come to be? By brother Ibn Anwar
 
 The Bible By brother Osama Abdullah 
 
 

Originally posted by Shibboleth

What the Qur’ān Says About the Holy Scriptures

The Qur’ān calls the Torah and the Injīl “the Book of Enlightenment.” (Āl ‘Imrān [3]:184; Fāṭir [35]:25) Scores of Qur’ānic verses state that these books are from God. (Al-Baqarah [2]:89; Al-An‘ām [6]:92) Concerning both the Torah and Injīl, we read: “Wherein is guidance and a light.” (Al-Mā’idah [5]:44, 46, MMP) Furthermore, Al-Mā’idah [5]:46 says about the Torah: “Therein is the (plain) command of God.” Many of the great interpreters (such as Al-Jalālayn, Al-Fakhr Al-Rāzī, Al-Ṭabarī, and Al-Bayḍāwī) acknowledge that according to the Qur’ān, the Torah is called “the Book of God” (Āl ‘Imrān [3]:23) and “the Book which helps to make things clear.” (Al-Ṣāffāt [37]:117) Nevertheless, some still believe that the present-day Torah and Injīl have been corrupted and cannot be trusted. But if this were true, when did this falsification take place?

From a Qur’ānic viewpoint, no corruption could possibly have occurred BEFORE writing of the Qur’ān because many Qur’ānic verses call for faith in the Torah and the Injīl.

(For example, see Al-Baqarah [2]:136; Āl ‘Imrān [3]:84; Al-Nisā’ [4]:136.) The Qur’ān also recommends seeking out those versed in the Torah and the Injīl, saying: “If ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message.” (Al-Naḥl [16]:43; Al-Anbiyā’ [21]:7) Would it do so if these texts had been corrupted? Furthermore, many Qur’ānic verses call out to “People of the Book” (the Torah and the Injīl) to turn back to their books. (For instance, see Al-Mā’idah [5]:50, 71.) Surely, an invitation would not be given to turn back to corrupted books!

Likewise, no corruption could possibly have occurred AFTER the writing of the Qur’ān, since a comparison of our modern-day Holy Scriptures with manuscripts of the Torah and the Injīl written FOUR or FIVE centuries before the writing of the Qur’ān shows that there have been no changes, or corruption.

 Does Islam Endorse The Bible? By brother Bassam Zawadi
 
 Does the Quran confirm the Bible in it's whole? By Sami Zaatari
 
 The authenticity of the Bible according to the Quran,Corrupt or Uncorrupt:By brother Sami Zaatari
 
 
 
 
Originally posted by Shibboleth

These manuscripts are available in public libraries and museums.

If you have a copy of the Bible, you are far from alone. In whole or in part, the Bible has been published in more than 2,300 languages and thus is available to more than 90 percent of the world’s population. On the average, more than a million Bibles are distributed each week! Billions of copies of either the whole Bible or part of it have been produced. Surely, there is no other book like the Bible.

DO WE HAVE THE BIBLE IN ITS ORIGINAL FORM TODAY? UNEQUIVOCALLY, YES!

IS THERE AN “ORIGINAL BOOK” THAT SHOWS THE CORRUPTION OF GOD’S HOLY WRITINGS? EMPHATICALLY NO!

EVEN THE QUR’AN TESTIFIES TO THAT FACT!

 Bible Compared to Quran By brother Yusuf Esstes and & Dr.Gary Miller
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 08 September 2009 at 3:58pm
Shibbo and Moses,
its a fact shown on this forum that the Bible contradicts on the three main points that are its backbone.
God, Jesus, and Salvation. It contradicts on all three of those, period.
So any argument of its authenticity is of no value. That's just too bad for you.
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Moses Replybullet Posted: 09 September 2009 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt

"Again your incorrect Mo, Paul does not abrogate or cancel (Unlike the Quran, you will not find abrogating in God’s Holy Bible) but the Law was fulfilled, Judo-Christians were now no longer under the law covenant. It seems that you have been misinformed .
 

“”Isn't this EXACTLY what Paul did? Taught men to break, actually ignore, the Law.

Ask yourself, who do you believe? God? Jesus? Or Paul?””

You are waaaaay of course again Mo, after Jesus died a sacrificial death the law was fulfilled, completed. Paul was a Jew by birth but followed and practiced Christianity like Jesus 12 apostles and his many followers."

Actually I wrote this. At the time of Jesus there was no such thing as Judeo-Christian. There were no Christians. Jesus was not a Christian, he was a Jew.
 
I would ask that you simply correct me and put me back on course by posting the verses of the Bible where JESUS told his followers to abandon the Law. Then post the verses where JESUS stated that he was God. Then post the verses where GOD states He is a Triune or anything about the Trinity, period.   This should be very easy.

all over the verses of Bible you can find simple questions of Jesus that asked from jew people to show them that he is the real owner of law.
in Luke 5-33-35 you can find one of this simple evidences:
And they said unto him, Why do the disciples of John fast often, and make prayers, and likewise [the disciples] of the Pharisees; but thine eat and drink?
And he said unto them, Can ye make the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them?
 
what is the meaning of these verses?
Is he coming to tell us abandon the law? of course not, but explaining something that we shuld see as well: he is the law himself ! He is not talking as a human or a prophet, but the word of God (KALAMAH O ALLAH)
he is the one who we can see God in him. he is the image of unvisible God. then he is above the law.
 
and also in : Luke 6-6-10:
And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered.
And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him.
But he knew their thoughts, and said to the man which had the withered hand, Rise up, and stand forth in the midst. And he arose and stood forth.
Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy [it]?
And looking round about upon them all, he said unto the man, Stretch forth thy hand. And he did so: and his hand was restored whole as the other.
 
you know the sabbath , In Moses laws you can read it :(Deutonomy 5-14)
 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
 
and also in Luke 6, 1-5:
And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing [them] in [their] hands.
And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days? And Jesus answering them said, Have ye not read so much as this, what David did, when himself was an hungred, and they which were with him;How he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, and gave also to them that were with him; which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone? 
 And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
 
do you believe?! I don`t think so, the first thinking is : they changed this book !! but when ?? where ?? how??? who can change the eternal words of God?!!! our Almighty God is not powerful enough to save his own words?!!!!
 
ok, u can find him in Quran also:
ٱلَّذِينَ يَتَّبِعُونَ ٱلرَّسُولَ ٱلنَّبِىَّ ٱلۡأُمِّىَّ ٱلَّذِى يَجِدُونَهُ ۥ مَكۡتُوبًا عِندَهُمۡ فِى ٱلتَّوۡرَٮٰةِ وَٱلۡإِنجِيلِ يَأۡمُرُهُم بِٱلۡمَعۡرُوفِ وَيَنۡہَٮٰهُمۡ عَنِ ٱلۡمُنڪَرِ وَيُحِلُّ لَهُمُ ٱلطَّيِّبَـٰتِ وَيُحَرِّمُ عَلَيۡهِمُ ٱلۡخَبَـٰٓٮِٕثَ وَيَضَعُ عَنۡهُمۡ إِصۡرَهُمۡ وَٱلۡأَغۡلَـٰلَ ٱلَّتِى كَانَتۡ عَلَيۡهِمۡ‌ۚ فَٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ بِهِۦ وَعَزَّرُوهُ وَنَصَرُوهُ وَٱتَّبَعُواْ ٱلنُّورَ ٱلَّذِىٓ أُنزِلَ مَعَهُ ۥۤ‌ۙ أُوْلَـٰٓٮِٕكَ هُمُ ٱلۡمُفۡلِحُونَ (١٥٧
Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who is innate, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honour him, and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him: they are the successful. (157)
 
here is talking about a messenger, not owner of law, but this is the same that Jesus was doing by his authority of God, means he could change the law, can you believe? NO!!!!! because you do not believe in authority of God on his own laws and on what he created himself! actualy I don`t think that u have questions and wanting to "come on course" , no, you have something restricted in your mind which is too hard to be broken, and you need God to confirm that! but God is such as you can find in his book, nothing ealse.
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 09 September 2009 at 4:21pm
Moses,
I just don't see any point in most of your posts,  just emphasis that somehow you are right, yet you don't produce a clear and short proof, rather your own interpretations with quotes that go against it. So, I don't get it. And then you also seem to be on the offensive against Islam in your posts. You seem to ask a question, but answer it on basis of speculation and think you have a point, just read what you wrote above with incomplete reference. You are wasting your time and ours as well. Write less, but to the point and my English is not good, but yours need some imporvement. So first get a better hand at English, then at your knowledge of Islam. And don't come with the attitude that you are a scholar. Come as a student like we all are and just present your solid points, short and clear.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 09 September 2009 at 4:34pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Shibboleth Replybullet Posted: 09 September 2009 at 9:47pm
Husan, Ali and others explain this fact.....................
39: 1
       The revelation of this Book is from Allah the Exalted in Power Full of Wisdom. 2        Verily it is We Who have revealed the Book to thee in Truth: so serve Allah offering Him sincere devotion.

If the
Quran is CONFIRMATION of all Previous Revelations, then these Revelations could not have been corrupted prior to or in the days of Muhammad otherwise this verse - like many others like it - would make no sense and would render it blasphemous.

Agree or Disagree?


Why didn't ancient Muslims find some of these "corrupt" manuscripts and save them?

All these links, statements and quotes don't mean a thing without proof of the version that's been "un-corrupted" wouldn't you agree. Now that's PROOF of course if there is one.

BUT LET ME SAVE YOU THE TROUBLE, IT ISN'T, SORRY! IT WOULD HAVE TO BE OLDER THEN DIRT Wink


Edited by Shibboleth - 09 September 2009 at 9:59pm
“If you doubt what we have revealed to you, ask those who have read the Scriptures before you.” (Sura 10, Yunis [Jonah], verse 94) & (Surah Al ‘Imran: 84-85)
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 10 September 2009 at 4:46am
Luke 6:3And Jesus answering them said, Have ye not read so much as this, what David did, when himself was an hungred, and they which were with him;

 4How he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, and gave also to them that were with him; which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone?

 5And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Jesus is comparing himself to David, not God.
 
And then Jesus went onto the mountain and prayed to God:
 
Luke 6: 12And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.
 
Who is the God of God?
 
These are not the verses I asked for.
 
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 10 September 2009 at 5:03am
Shibboleth:
 
Please answer me from the Bible, which was created first man or beast? Adam or Eve or were they created together?
 
Perhaps you can tell me which is the true uncorrupted account?
 
Genesis 1:24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

 25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

 26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

 27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

OR
 
Genesis 2: 7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
 
18And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

 19And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

 20And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

 21And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

 22And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt
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