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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Is the Bible Still the Word of God? Post Reply Post New Topic
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iec786
 
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Quote iec786 Replybullet Posted: 22 November 2013 at 8:28pm
Originally posted by Placid

Hi iec,

The discrepancies in the OT are of dates, numbers and places, and make no difference to the historyIt makes all the difference the people that wrote this and made all these mistakes were liers. of Noah, Abraham and Moses, who are recorded in the Quran about the same as in the OT.
These OT verses you mention have nothing to do with the prophecies that are fulfilled in the NT, --- I wonder, have you studied these Books and found these, or would you have ‘copy and pasted’ it from some other critic? --- So it is not worth the time it check them. --- However, if you want to pursue it, then find a Jewish fellow to answer what is in the OT. All that is in the OT and the NT is in the Bible with these interpolations in it are in your hands right now.
--- The NT is where things were fulfilled and since Gabriel ‘confirmed’ the Torah and Gospel as true,I don't think Jesus or Gabriel had seen these anonymous books.Both Gabriel and Jesus would have killed them for mutilating the teachings of Jesus. in the Quran, --- then that is authoritative enough, is it not?

(g) Jesus lost "None" of his disciples JOHN 18:9
Contradicted by: He lost only "One" JOHN 17:12 The difference between one and non is infinite.

Response: --- Because it said earlier that Judas was a thief, and then he betrayed Jesus, he was really never one of the Apostles, though he was numbered with them. It suggests that Judas had a different agenda. He was a disciple and could have been converted, but it seemed He was expecting Jesus would set up an earthly kingdom to overthrow the Roman Government.
It seemed that it was after this, --- “From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.”
--- When Judas realized that Jesus was not talking about an earthly kingdom where the disciples would become rulers in the new Government, --- He may have asked himself, “What is in it for me?”

--- It says this, “Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread drew near, which is called Passover. 2 And the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might kill Him, for they feared the people.
3 Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve. 4 So he went his way and conferred with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray Him to them. 5 And they were glad, and agreed to give him money. 6 So he promised and sought opportunity to betray Him to them in the absence of the multitude.
--- So, under the cover of darkness, it says in John 18:
3 Then Judas, having received a detachment of troops, and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, came there with lanterns, torches, and weapons. 4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that would come upon Him, went forward and said to them, “Whom are you seeking?”
5 They answered Him, “Jesus of Nazareth.”
Jesus said to them, “I am He.” And Judas, who betrayed Him, also stood with them.
8 Jesus answered, “I have told you that I am He. Therefore, if you seek Me, let these go their way,” 9 that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, “Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none.”
--- So this fulfilled a prophecy that said, ‘one of His disciples would betray Him,’ --- and notice the wording, “Of those WHOM YOU (God) GAVE ME.” --- So Judas was not one ‘chosen of God,’ though up until that time he was numbered with them.

Quote: Now the acid test.
Revelation 22:18-19 “For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”

Response: --- The Book of Revelation is a Book of prophecies that are being fulfilled as life on earth goes on. --- Some have professed to understand it from their point of view and they have written Books without the discernment of the Holy Spirit of God. --- The Revelation is not written in chronological order but covers history from Genesis through to the present day and beyond. It is full of symbolism that makes it a sequel to the Book of Daniel.

If you read it properly you will see that it says in two places, “the words of the PROPHECY of this book.” --- It refers to the ‘End Time Prophecy’ in the Revelation.

It is to warn critics and false teachers not to tamper with it because they will bring judgment on themselves.
--- This can be a warning for any part of the Bible as well, so critics should be aware that God is watching and recording whatever you do and say against His word.Placid i suggest that you write to your church fathers and tell them that you have problems in the Bible and they need to read the Quran which is the only book in its original form inshaallah you will get hidayah.
iec

Placid



   
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iec786
 
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Quote iec786 Replybullet Posted: 23 November 2013 at 11:54pm
The discrepancies in the OT are of dates, numbers and places, and make no difference to the history of Noah



Why do you have discrepancies in the book of God??? God does not make mistakes in any book of his.
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Placid
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 25 November 2013 at 7:28am
I agree, God doesn't make mistakes, but people do.

Since God approved the Scriptures through Gabriel in 625 AD as true, we don't judge them, we either accept them and believe in God, or we reject both God and His word.

Realize too that the New Testament is the New Covenant that God made with mankind, and said, "I will put My law in their minds and write it on their hearts."

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1914
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Quote 1914 Replybullet Posted: 01 December 2013 at 5:11pm

Originally posted by iec786

The Bible is damaged beyond fixing.This book has been tempered with and these errors are so serious that they had to revise it.In the revision it is impossible to repair. . . You see if we take the Bible as we see it today you have to admit that there are so many errors in it,for example:  

Iec, everyone is entitled to an opinion but I’m at a lost, according to Muhammad there are no errors in the Holy Scriptures. There are dozens of scriptures in the Quran that proves there are no errors. Here are just a few . . .


Are you going against your Quran? It must be your interpretation of the scriptures. Besides, as I said earlier . . .

Originally posted by 1914

. . . none of the prophets said the Torah (Law) was incorrect or tampered with, not even Jesus or his Apostles. They all spoke in favor of the Torah. That's all that matters, right?

Should “WE” believe God and his word, Jesus and the Prophets (Muhammad) or people like you and I?

In any event, the Hebrew Scriptures was fixed by the end of the fifth century B.C.E. How do we know?

Jewish tradition credits Ezra ((Ezra 7:1-11)) with beginning the compiling and cataloging of the canon of the Hebrew Scriptures not the church fathers, and it says that this was completed by Nehemiah. Ezra was certainly well equipped for such a work, being one of the inspired Bible writers himself as well as a priest, scholar, and official copyist of sacred writings.

The following is the list of the 24 books according to the traditional Jewish canon:

 The Law (The Pentateuch)

 1. Genesis

 2. Exodus

 3. Leviticus

 4. Numbers

 5. Deuteronomy

The Prophets

 6. Joshua

 7. Judges

 8. Samuel (First and Second together as one book)

 9. Kings (First and Second together as one book)

10. Isaiah

11. Jeremiah

12. Ezekiel

13. The Twelve Prophets (Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, and Malachi, as one book)

The Writings (Hagiographa)

14. Psalms

15. Proverbs

16. Job

17. The Song of Solomon

18. Ruth

19. Lamentations

20. Ecclesiastes

21. Esther

22. Daniel

23. Ezra (Nehemiah was included with Ezra)

24. Chronicles (First and Second together as one book)

 

This was the catalog, or canon, that was accepted as inspired Scripture by Christ Jesus and the early Christian congregation. It was only from these writings that the inspired writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures quoted, and by introducing such quotations with expressions like “as it is written,” they confirmed these as being the Word of God.

Edited by 1914 - 01 December 2013 at 5:43pm
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iec786
 
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Quote iec786 Replybullet Posted: 03 December 2013 at 7:54am
Hi 1914,

Thank you for your answer.

I will let you decide,

Should “WE” believe God and his word, Jesus and the Prophets (Muhammad) or people like you and I?


CONTRADICTIONS : In the Bible -
(a) The "Lord" tempted David . . . 2 SAMUEL 24:1
or "Satan" provoked David . . . 1 CHRONICLES 21:1
(b) 700 or 7000? "Horsemen" or "Footmen" . . .? 2 SAMUEL 10:18 vs 1
CHRONICLES 19:18
(c) Solomon had 2000 baths or 3000 baths? 1 KINGS 7:26 vs 2
CHRONICLES 4:5
(d) Solomon had 4000 stalls of horses or 40000? 2 CHRONICLES 9:25 vs
1 KINGS 4:26
(e) Did Saul enquire of the Lord or didn't he? 1 SAMUEL 28:6 vs 1
CHRONICLES 10:13-14
(f) Heaven, no man hath ascended JOHN 3:13
Contradicted by: 2 KINGS 2:11 Elijah ascended, and GENESIS 5:24
Enoch ascended.
(g) Jesus lost "None" of his disciples JOHN 18:9
Contradicted by: He lost only "One" JOHN 17:12

(h) "ALL" are sinners 2 CHRONICLES 6:36
Contradicted by: "Whosoever is born of God DOTH NOT
commit sin . . ." 1 JOHN 3:9

regards
Ismail.
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Quote 1914 Replybullet Posted: 06 December 2013 at 8:45pm
Tell us, who said they contradict, when and why, 19 Century critics? Why did it take centuries if true? None of these scriptures contradicts, only your lack of understanding, comprehension and interpretation. You are a non-believer, therefor not a true Muslim. Why does 'modern' Muslims reject the Holy Scriptures? Don't believe me but believe your own book at least.

S 34:31 Unbelievers refuse to believe it
S 3:84 S 4:136 Muslims SHOULD believe it
S 40:70 Judged for rejecting it.

Could it be that you're not grounded in knowledge? According to S 4:162 those who do not believe are a lost people (Meccans)

Originally posted by 1914

. . . none of the prophets said the Torah (Law) was incorrect or tampered with, not even Jesus or his Apostles. They all spoke in favor of the Torah. That's all that matters, right?


What I'm really asking is why did no other prophet contradict the previous scriptures, only Muhammad? Why is that?
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 12 December 2013 at 7:31am
Hi 1914,

Quote: What I'm really asking is why did no other prophet contradict the previous scriptures, only Muhammad? Why is that?

Response: --- Not sure what you are referring to in the Quran because the Quran confirms the former Scriptures as being true, does it not?
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Quote mutakallim Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2013 at 8:09am
Salaam.

Jesus son of Maryam  was/is a Messenger and Prophet. Muhammad Rasulullah was/is also a Messenger and a Prophet. As Prophets they will all confirm what previous Messengers taught and practiced. As Messengers they could receive a code of conduct not known before. That is Muhammad could receive a code of conduct not known to all of them.  For example, the Levis read the Torah alone. With Muhammad all are to read the Torah/Qur'an.
How did Moses and Jesus son of Maryam differentiated between a Messenger and a Prophet?

Mutakallim formerly Friendship.
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