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Message Icon Topic: Is the Bible Still the Word of God? Post Reply Post New Topic
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Moses
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Quote Moses Replybullet Posted: 03 September 2009 at 7:54am
Originally posted by Mansoor_ali

 
 Only 1 verse of Quran is enough to prove that Bible is corrupt.
 
 004.157
YUSUFALI: That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
 Here is another explicit verse speaking of Bible corruption, the Quran states that if anyone believes that Jesus died and was crucified they then follow nothing but CONJECTURE which is corruption. Which book today tells us that Jesus died and was crucified? The Bible, so hence the Quran here does call the Bible corrupt. So it can't get anymore clear than that.

See the previous verses to know "We" refers to somebody, Bible did not say "they killed Jesus”, Bible explain that this was a prepared plan that has to be done, a plan from the first, for salvation. Not a simple Murderer story, as they believed that "they" killed him. But at present, you are not looking in these verses as a love message, you plan to use of them as tool for your own religious! Don`t you?!

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Quote Moses Replybullet Posted: 03 September 2009 at 8:13am
Originally posted by Shibboleth

 .......... Let us repeat a verse from the Qur’an. But now we will discuss it from a different angle. “After those prophets We sent forth Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the Torah already revealed, and gave him the Gospel, in which there is guidance and light, corroborating that which was revealed before it in the Torah, a guide and an admonition to the righteous. Therefore let the followers of the Gospel judge in accordance with what Allah has revealed therein. Evil-doers are those that do not base their judgements on Allah’s revelations.”—Sura 5, Al-Ma’ida [The Table], verses 46, 47.  (The Qur'an also accepts Jesus as the son of God,just as it does Adam)

 ..................

For a believer to Quran, these are clear, and they do not argue about these verses because they can not stand against the words of God. Each of them knows well that for response to your claim needs to explain the words of God in human way, but they afraid of anger of God. Then they will attack to u, by other tools. But obviously all of their efforts are against the Quran! And this is truly “corruption”! Not in word of God, but in mind of human! but still God love them and let them to continue.....

If not...., then from now , they will explain to you the Tafsir and explanation of these verses of Quran, not more!! because most of them are truly believers in God.


Edited by Moses - 03 September 2009 at 8:16am
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Akhe Abdullah
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Quote Akhe Abdullah Replybullet Posted: 03 September 2009 at 7:57pm
Salams,Moses and welcome to the forum I see that you already made yourself at home.You say and it seems that you are like a mediator for now:Then they will attack to u, by other tools. But obviously all of their efforts are against the Quran!Well most of us don't feel that we have to defend the truth wich we believe the Qur'an is.Some Christians come here on an Islamic Forum with fake intentions on learning and like all falsehoods they are exposed.

Edited by Akhe Abdullah - 03 September 2009 at 7:58pm
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Quote Moses Replybullet Posted: 04 September 2009 at 9:10am
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah

Salams,Moses and welcome to the forum I see that you already made yourself at home.You say and it seems that you are like a mediator for now:Then they will attack to u, by other tools. But obviously all of their efforts are against the Quran!Well most of us don't feel that we have to defend the truth wich we believe the Qur'an is.Some Christians come here on an Islamic Forum with fake intentions on learning and like all falsehoods they are exposed.
thanks, yes I made myself at home!
you do not feel that have to defend the truth, because you do not believe that you know the truth.
believers defends the truth of God, not thoes things that concerned to human thoughts. you have accepted human thoughts and follow them, because do not believe in the power of God , for talking with your heart directly. you can not come to the verses of Quran and explain them, because you feel alone without your leaders, if i made a mistake , made my mind clear please by explanation about the words of Quran at the first post, that u believe them.
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 04 September 2009 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by Moses

Originally posted by Shibboleth

 .......... Let us repeat a verse from the Qur’an. But now we will discuss it from a different angle. “After those prophets We sent forth Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the Torah already revealed, and gave him the Gospel, in which there is guidance and light, corroborating that which was revealed before it in the Torah, a guide and an admonition to the righteous. Therefore let the followers of the Gospel judge in accordance with what Allah has revealed therein. Evil-doers are those that do not base their judgements on Allah’s revelations.”—Sura 5, Al-Ma’ida [The Table], verses 46, 47.  (The Qur'an also accepts Jesus as the son of God,just as it does Adam)

 ..................

For a believer to Quran, these are clear, and they do not argue about these verses because they can not stand against the words of God. Each of them knows well that for response to your claim needs to explain the words of God in human way, but they afraid of anger of God. Then they will attack to u, by other tools. But obviously all of their efforts are against the Quran! And this is truly “corruption”! Not in word of God, but in mind of human! but still God love them and let them to continue.....

If not...., then from now , they will explain to you the Tafsir and explanation of these verses of Quran, not more!! because most of them are truly believers in God.
 
 
 
Dear Moses,
Shibbo has misquoted the verse and you followed his trap, sorry, but let me correct you and him, and guide you to the truth.
Please read, here is the correct translation:
5:46 (Y. Ali) And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah."
 
The key word is وَمُصَدِّقًا  which is best tarnslated as confirmation.
 
Take care,
Hasan 


Edited by honeto - 04 September 2009 at 4:43pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 04 September 2009 at 7:24pm

"Have you ever try to understand several side of a shape? Do u know, each side hiding the other, because this is one thing, and you will not find the truth if you don’t try for understanding all of sides.

All of prophets are agree to each other, people are fighting to each other for them!

Law is not against the love, and love is not disappearing the law. They are one program in righteousness, for salvation. Do you need that?"

 
Let's try to get an understanding of all sides just by using the Bible.
 
Biblically God states that His covenants: the Law, are perpetual and everlasting. Jesus reaffirms this by following the Law himself, telling his disciples to follow the Law, and stating he did not come to change the Law. After Jesus dies, Paul abrogates the Law, making it null and void.
 
Even if, as some Christians say: Jesus fufilled the Law. In what way did he fulfil the Law? By his own words: "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."
 
Everything was "not accomplished" because he did not fulfil all of the prophesies. That is why Christians claim there will be a "second coming". So that Jesus can accomplish everything that was left undone.
 
Jesus then goes on to say:
 
Matthew 5:19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
 
Isn't this EXACTLY what Paul did? Taught men to break, actually ignore, the Law.

Ask yourself, who do you believe? God? Jesus? Or Paul?

“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Quote Shibboleth Replybullet Posted: 06 September 2009 at 2:03pm

PROOF THAT THE BIBLE BEEN ACCURATELY PRESEVED.

 

By studying the thousands of manuscripts extant in our time and comparing them with one another, we can see that the original text has been accurately passed down to us. A report published in 1971 shows that there are possibly 6,000 handwritten copies containing all or part of the Hebrew Scriptures; the oldest dates back to the third century B.C.E. Of the Christian Greek Scriptures, there are some 5,000 in Greek, the oldest dating back to the beginning of the second century C.E.

 

More than 13,000 manuscripts of the Greek Scriptures are said to be available today. A study of them shows that the original text of the Christian Greek Scriptures has also been preserved accurately, the oldest dating back to the beginning of the second century C.E.

 

For example, the Institute for New Testament Textual Studies in Germany has made about 95 percent of its approximately 5,300 handwritten copies of the Christian Greek Scriptures available for scientific study, either on microfilm or in photographs. A comparison of them shows just how exact the transmission of the Bible text down to our day has been. The interval of time between the original writing of the Christian Greek Scriptures and the writing of the oldest extant papyrus manuscripts is very short, not more than 25 years.

What the Qur’ān Says About the Holy Scriptures

The Qur’ān calls the Torah and the Injīl “the Book of Enlightenment.” (Āl ‘Imrān [3]:184; Fāṭir [35]:25) Scores of Qur’ānic verses state that these books are from God. (Al-Baqarah [2]:89; Al-An‘ām [6]:92) Concerning both the Torah and Injīl, we read: “Wherein is guidance and a light.” (Al-Mā’idah [5]:44, 46, MMP) Furthermore, Al-Mā’idah [5]:46 says about the Torah: “Therein is the (plain) command of God.” Many of the great interpreters (such as Al-Jalālayn, Al-Fakhr Al-Rāzī, Al-Ṭabarī, and Al-Bayḍāwī) acknowledge that according to the Qur’ān, the Torah is called “the Book of God” (Āl ‘Imrān [3]:23) and “the Book which helps to make things clear.” (Al-Ṣāffāt [37]:117) Nevertheless, some still believe that the present-day Torah and Injīl have been corrupted and cannot be trusted. But if this were true, when did this falsification take place?

From a Qur’ānic viewpoint, no corruption could possibly have occurred BEFORE writing of the Qur’ān because many Qur’ānic verses call for faith in the Torah and the Injīl.

(For example, see Al-Baqarah [2]:136; Āl ‘Imrān [3]:84; Al-Nisā’ [4]:136.) The Qur’ān also recommends seeking out those versed in the Torah and the Injīl, saying: “If ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message.” (Al-Naḥl [16]:43; Al-Anbiyā’ [21]:7) Would it do so if these texts had been corrupted? Furthermore, many Qur’ānic verses call out to “People of the Book” (the Torah and the Injīl) to turn back to their books. (For instance, see Al-Mā’idah [5]:50, 71.) Surely, an invitation would not be given to turn back to corrupted books!

Likewise, no corruption could possibly have occurred AFTER the writing of the Qur’ān, since a comparison of our modern-day Holy Scriptures with manuscripts of the Torah and the Injīl written FOUR or FIVE centuries before the writing of the Qur’ān shows that there have been no changes, or corruption.

These manuscripts are available in public libraries and museums.

If you have a copy of the Bible, you are far from alone. In whole or in part, the Bible has been published in more than 2,300 languages and thus is available to more than 90 percent of the world’s population. On the average, more than a million Bibles are distributed each week! Billions of copies of either the whole Bible or part of it have been produced. Surely, there is no other book like the Bible.

DO WE HAVE THE BIBLE IN ITS ORIGINAL FORM TODAY? UNEQUIVOCALLY, YES!

IS THERE AN “ORIGINAL BOOK” THAT SHOWS THE CORRUPTION OF GOD’S HOLY WRITINGS? EMPHATICALLY NO!

EVEN THE QUR’AN TESTIFIES TO THAT FACT!

“If you doubt what we have revealed to you, ask those who have read the Scriptures before you.” (Sura 10, Yunis [Jonah], verse 94) & (Surah Al ‘Imran: 84-85)
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Quote Moses Replybullet Posted: 07 September 2009 at 6:27am
Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by Moses

Originally posted by Shibboleth

 .......... Let us repeat a verse from the Qur’an. But now we will discuss it from a different angle. “After those prophets We sent forth Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the Torah already revealed, and gave him the Gospel, in which there is guidance and light, corroborating that which was revealed before it in the Torah, a guide and an admonition to the righteous. Therefore let the followers of the Gospel judge in accordance with what Allah has revealed therein. Evil-doers are those that do not base their judgements on Allah’s revelations.”—Sura 5, Al-Ma’ida [The Table], verses 46, 47.  (The Qur'an also accepts Jesus as the son of God,just as it does Adam)

 ..................

For a believer to Quran, these are clear, and they do not argue about these verses because they can not stand against the words of God. Each of them knows well that for response to your claim needs to explain the words of God in human way, but they afraid of anger of God. Then they will attack to u, by other tools. But obviously all of their efforts are against the Quran! And this is truly “corruption”! Not in word of God, but in mind of human! but still God love them and let them to continue.....

If not...., then from now , they will explain to you the Tafsir and explanation of these verses of Quran, not more!! because most of them are truly believers in God.
 
 
 
Dear Moses,
Shibbo has misquoted the verse and you followed his trap, sorry, but let me correct you and him, and guide you to the truth.
Please read, here is the correct translation:
5:46 (Y. Ali) And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah."
 
The key word is وَمُصَدِّقًا  which is best tarnslated as confirmation.
 
Take care,
Hasan 
Thanks , you are kind to me. But not to the words of Quran! if we can change the words only by our thoughts, what will happend for Quran after awhile?!!
you can see the word of "Altthorah" in the same verse 5-46near the end of that,
 وَقَفَّيۡنَا عَلَىٰٓ ءَاثَـٰرِهِم بِعِيسَى ٱبۡنِ مَرۡيَمَ مُصَدِّقً۬ا لِّمَا بَيۡنَ يَدَيۡهِ مِنَ ٱلتَّوۡرَٮٰةِ‌ۖ وَءَاتَيۡنَـٰهُ ٱلۡإِنجِيلَ فِيهِ هُدً۬ى وَنُورٌ۬ وَمُصَدِّقً۬ا لِّمَا بَيۡنَ يَدَيۡهِ مِنَ ٱلتَّوۡرَٮٰةِ وَهُدً۬ى وَمَوۡعِظَةً۬ لِّلۡمُتَّقِينَ
 
and what about this one:(46-11)
 وَمِن قَبۡلِهِۦ كِتَـٰبُ مُوسَىٰٓ إِمَامً۬ا وَرَحۡمَةً۬‌ۚ وَهَـٰذَا كِتَـٰبٌ۬ مُّصَدِّقٌ۬ لِّسَانًا عَرَبِيًّ۬ا لِّيُنذِرَ ٱلَّذِينَ ظَلَمُواْ وَبُشۡرَىٰ لِلۡمُحۡسِنِينَ
isn`t it about "Althorah" again?!then what is the book of Moses?!
and what about this one:(7-144&145)
قَالَ يَـٰمُوسَىٰٓ إِنِّى ٱصۡطَفَيۡتُكَ عَلَى ٱلنَّاسِ بِرِسَـٰلَـٰتِى وَبِكَلَـٰمِى فَخُذۡ مَآ ءَاتَيۡتُكَ وَكُن مِّنَ ٱلشَّـٰكِرِينَ (١٤٤) وَڪَتَبۡنَا لَهُ ۥ فِى ٱلۡأَلۡوَاحِ مِن ڪُلِّ شَىۡءٍ۬ مَّوۡعِظَةً۬ وَتَفۡصِيلاً۬ لِّكُلِّ شَىۡءٍ۬ فَخُذۡهَا بِقُوَّةٍ۬ وَأۡمُرۡ قَوۡمَكَ يَأۡخُذُواْ بِأَحۡسَنِہَا‌ۚ سَأُوْرِيكُمۡ دَارَ ٱلۡفَـٰسِقِينَ
and says: the lesson to be drawn from all things and the explanation of all things, then: Hold it fast; and command thy people (saying): Take the better therein ....
and this one:
أَفَمَن كَانَ عَلَىٰ بَيِّنَةٍ۬ مِّن رَّبِّهِۦ وَيَتۡلُوهُ شَاهِدٌ۬ مِّنۡهُ وَمِن قَبۡلِهِۦ كِتَـٰبُ مُوسَىٰٓ إِمَامً۬ا وَرَحۡمَةً‌ۚ أُوْلَـٰٓٮِٕكَ يُؤۡمِنُونَ بِهِۦ‌ۚ وَمَن يَكۡفُرۡ بِهِۦ مِنَ ٱلۡأَحۡزَابِ فَٱلنَّارُ مَوۡعِدُهُ ۥ‌ۚ فَلَا تَكُ فِى مِرۡيَةٍ۬ مِّنۡهُ‌ۚ إِنَّهُ ٱلۡحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّكَ وَلَـٰكِنَّ أَڪۡثَرَ ٱلنَّاسِ لَا يُؤۡمِنُونَ
means:Such believe therein, and whoso disbelieveth therein of the clans, the Fire is his appointed place.
what is she talking about? you know she is talking about the book of Moses and in that time, there is in the Jweish people hands. that they covered some of that and talked about some. and what are you doing today? do you obey and Hold it fast and command your people take that for themselves? or are you covering the meaning of these verses of Quran by replacement the words?! then, judge yourself please, before coming to the end of this world story! 


Edited by icforumadmin - 07 September 2009 at 3:07pm
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