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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Is the Bible Still the Word of God? Post Reply Post New Topic
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Hayfa
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Quote Hayfa Replybullet Posted: 28 August 2009 at 1:47am
Why do you care what Muslims believe or do not believe? it is SO odd...

maybe you are feeling a bit threatened... hmmm..

Do you go onto Jewish web sites and argue there too? What about Buddhist websites?? just curious... lol
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Shasta'sAunt
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 29 August 2009 at 8:53am

"Unfortunately, because the Quran contradicts the Bible, the Bible must be "corrupt."

WOW! Putting the 'cart' before the 'horse'

Real science!



Are you a true Muslim or a Muhammadan?
 
Yeah Natassia, answer the man/woman. Are you a true Muslim or a Mohammedan? 
With fellow Christian brain-trusts like this on the forum we'll be seeing mass conversions to Christianity in record time....
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Quote Mansoor_ali Replybullet Posted: 30 August 2009 at 7:46am
 
 "Unfortunately, because the Quran contradicts the Bible, the Bible must be "corrupt."
 
 Yes the Bible is corrupt.Even the Biblical scholar Dr.Bart Ehrman admits it.
 
 Recommended Link:
 
 
 
 
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_ALI_
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Quote _ALI_ Replybullet Posted: 30 August 2009 at 10:43am
Long story short Ali; was the Bible corrupt when Muhammad received the 'revelation of the Torah, Psalms and Gospel?' Just answer the question....
In short, yes. Because as the Quran says

002.079 فَوَيْلٌ لِلَّذِينَ يَكْتُبُونَ الْكِتَابَ بِأَيْدِيهِمْ ثُمَّ يَقُولُونَ هَذَا مِنْ عِنْدِ اللَّهِ لِيَشْتَرُوا بِهِ ثَمَنًا قَلِيلا فَوَيْلٌ لَهُمْ مِمَّا كَتَبَتْ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَوَيْلٌ لَهُمْ مِمَّا يَكْسِبُونَ
002.079 Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.
Al-Qur'an, 002.079 (Al-Baqara [The Cow])
Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910
And
002.075 أَفَتَطْمَعُونَ أَنْ يُؤْمِنُوا لَكُمْ وَقَدْ كَانَ فَرِيقٌ مِنْهُمْ يَسْمَعُونَ كَلامَ اللَّهِ ثُمَّ يُحَرِّفُونَهُ مِنْ بَعْدِ مَا عَقَلُوهُ وَهُمْ يَعْلَمُونَ
002.075 Can ye (o ye men of Faith) entertain the hope that they will believe in you?- Seeing that a party of them heard the Word of Allah, and perverted it knowingly after they understood it.
Al-Qur'an, 002.075 (Al-Baqara [The Cow])
Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910

BTW; 

Ibn Ishaq who wrote the earliest biography (Sirat) of Muhammad. He clearly indentifies the Gospel mentioned in the Qur'an as what Christians call the New Testament.

Yeah, I read what you quoted. It is REALLY out of context, but I got the general idea.  

 

Among the things which have reached me about what Jesus the Son of Mary stated in the Gospel which he received from God for the followers of the Gospel, in applying a term to describe the apostle of God, is the following.
Ibn Ishaq is trying to quote how Jesus described prophet Muhammad and he says here that my quotes have been extracted from the gospel of John.
It is extracted from what John the Apostle set down for them when he wrote the Gospel for them from the Testament of Jesus Son of Mary (Ibn Ishaq's "Sirat Rasulallah", translated as "The Life of Muhammad", by A. Guillaume, Karachi: Oxford, 1998, pp. 103-104, bold added.)

Now if Ibn Ishaq is quoting from the gospel of John (he probably quoted John 14:16, 15:26, 16:7 which foretell prophet Muhammad) that does not mean that Bible is not corrupt. When Muslim say that Bible is corrupt, we don't mean that each and every word has been changed completely. We say that many passages of the Bible are unauthentic though not all. So how do we differentiate between those passages. We group the Bible into 3 parts.
1) Those parts which match with the Quran may be the word of God. For example Duet 18:18, Ezakiel 18:20-21. They agree with Islam
2) Those parts which contradict Quran must have been added by human beings. For example prophet lot drinking wine....and then committing adultery..........with his own daughters.......twice. (Gen19:31-36). In Islam, prophets are the best of people and don't commit petty crimes. And no Muslim will ever agree that Jesus referred to Gentiles (non-Jews) as dogs (Mathew 15:25-27). And the illogical numerical/scientific contradiction also fall in this category.
3) Those parts which neither match nor contradict Quran. We don't know whether those are true or false.

So what Ibn Ishaq probably quoted was in accordance with Islam since it predicted prophet Muhammad.

All you new 19th century followers are just changing what was previously said centuries ago to fit your own belief belief, going against your own holy book and your own prophet and your own god.

On the contrary, we will go against Quran if we start believing that prophet lot committed incest i.e Bible is authentic.
Peace
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Mansoor_ali
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Quote Mansoor_ali Replybullet Posted: 31 August 2009 at 4:30am
 
 Only 1 verse of Quran is enough to prove that Bible is corrupt.
 
 004.157
YUSUFALI: That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
 Here is another explicit verse speaking of Bible corruption, the Quran states that if anyone believes that Jesus died and was crucified they then follow nothing but CONJECTURE which is corruption. Which book today tells us that Jesus died and was crucified? The Bible, so hence the Quran here does call the Bible corrupt. So it can't get anymore clear than that.
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Quote Meditations Replybullet Posted: 31 August 2009 at 10:46pm
Originally posted by Shibboleth

On the other hand, there exist manuscripts of the Bible written four hundred or five hundred years before that time that are on public display in museums today.


If your statement is true , this would mean that these manuscripts were written around the years 115 - 215

Where are these manuscripts , which museums , which language is it written in , and what it's percentage compared with the current bible ?

Originally posted by Shibboleth


When comparing our modern Bibles with these ancient manuscripts, it is easily seen that there is no significant difference. The Bible is substantially the same.


Which language were these ancients mauscripts written in , and which 'modern' bible are you comparing it with ?

This foundation is trying to translate the bible from aramic straight to english ,
http://www.noohra.com/
They found numerous differences between the 'modern' king james version and their translation

examples of the differences :

Job 12:6

The tabernacles of robbers prosper, and they that provoke God are secure; into whose hand God bringeth abundantly. (KJV)

The tents of robbers shall perish, and the assurance of those who incite God because there is no God in their hearts. (Errico -- Aramaic text)

Job 31:10

Then let my wife grind unto another, and let others bow down upon her. (KJV)

Then let my wife grind (meal) for others and let her bake bread at another man's place. (Errico -- Aramaic text)

Psalm 7:11

God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day. (KJV)

God is a just judge and He is not angry every day. (Errico -- Aramaic text)

Psalm 23:2

He maketh me to lie down in green pastures; he leadeth me beside the still waters. (KJV)

And he makes me to dwell in pastures of strength. He guides me by refreshing waters. (Errico -- Aramaic text)

Psalm 23:6

Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life; and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever. (KJV)

Your loving kindness and compassion have pursued me all the days of my life; and I shall live in the house of the Lord for the length of days. (Errico -- Aramaic text)

Psalm 46:10

Be still and know that I am God! (KJV)

Return to me and know that I am God! (Errico -- Aramaic text)

Isaiah 43:28

Therefore I have profaned the princes of the sanctuary, and have given Jacob to the curse and Israel to reproaches. (KJV)

You princes have defiled the holy place (the sanctuary); therefore I have given Jacob to the curse and Israel to shame. (Errico -- Aramaic text)

Jeremiah 4:10

Then said I, ah Lord God; surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; wheras the sword reacheth unto the soul. (KJV)

Then I said, I implore you, O Lord God, truly, I have deceived this people and Jerusalem exceedingly because I have said, You will have peace, and behold, the slain sword reaches as far as the soul. (Errico -- Aramaic text)

Matthew 5:3

Blessed are the poor in spirit; for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (KJV)

Delighted are those who surrender to God, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Errico -- Aramaic text)

Matthew 6:34

Take therefore no thought for the morrow; for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. (KJV)

Now do not worry about tomorrow, because tomorrow will take care of itself. Enough for the day is its own trouble. (Errico -- Aramaic text)

John 1:14

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten son of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (KJV)

And the Word took human form and dwelt (tented) among us; and we saw his preciousness (glory), a preciousness like that of an only beloved son of the Father, who is filled with loving kindness and justice. (Errico -- Aramaic text)

2 Timothy 3:16

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. (KJV)

All scripture that is written by the Spirit is useful for teaching, correction, right action, and for instruction in justice (piety). (Errico -- Aramaic text)

2 Peter 1:21

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. (KJV)

For prophecy at no time ever came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke when they were impelled by the Holy Spirit. (Errico -- Aramaic text)

1 Corinthians 7:18

Is any man called being circumcised? Let him not become uncircumcised. (KJV)

If any man were circumcised when he was called, let him not turn to the party of the uncircumcised. (Errico -- Aramaic text)




Edited by Meditations - 01 September 2009 at 4:31pm
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Akhe Abdullah
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Quote Akhe Abdullah Replybullet Posted: 01 September 2009 at 7:28am
It is different

Edited by Akhe Abdullah - 02 September 2009 at 5:42am
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 01 September 2009 at 3:53pm
Yes,
I agree brother AKA. its very different in fact. I particularly like to mention this one:

John 1:14

And the Word took human form (Like we say the Prophet (pbuh) was a walking talking Quran) and dwelt (tented) among us; and we saw his preciousness (glory), a preciousness like that of an only beloved son of the Father, who is filled with loving kindness and justice. (Errico -- Aramaic text)

"Like" is the key word here. It is so clear and different to say "Like an only beloved son" vs " Only begotten of the Father."

Omitting, adding and subtracting surely messes up things, and simply misleads.

May God guide those, who truly seek His guidence.
 
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 01 September 2009 at 3:57pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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