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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2005 at 10:34am

Americancrusad(er)

First let me say God's peace and blessings be upon you and your family.

Bismi'llah ir-Rahmaan -ir-Raheem

First and formost we the majority are Muslims and you are most wlecome here as this website is for all those who wish to learn something about Islam. But let me warn you and though I'm not a moderator I assume that most here do not want evangelicals looking for a fight here. We may have disagreements here but I vouch for my brethren here in saying that most of us here want to talk about worship and love for God. I hope you can respect that. Second let me say that you use the term "Islamo-Jihadist" very loosely.

Let me remind you that "Islamo-Jihadist" is not a concept that makes sense Islamically. Jihad does not mean to kill Jews Christians or anyone who are innocent, in the name of God (Allah). Jihad means many things but it is not Islamo-Jihadist. Americancrusade many of us Muslims are on a Jihad everyday unlike the concept of Jihad you know but in the more spiritual sense. Jihad means to struggle, in the way of Islam. A mother giving birth is Jihad and if she dies in child birth she is considered a maytr (forgive my misspellings as I have been pullin all nighters). A scholar who dies writing a book for the pleasure of Allah is a maytr who has commensed in Jihad.

Also let me address to you Americancrusad(er) that "Islam does not police its people" the people police th people however we abide by Islam's ethical guidelines. I wish you would not use that loosely here either but its a free country in America and you are limitedly free to do as you wish . Also if you wish to have a healthy debate regarding spirituality I'm more than willing to do that personally with you. As sometimes the forums are sometimes not the best outlets to truly understand  a certain subject.

More importantly what you may already know now let me just again remind you that Islam is "submission to the will of God." We are the followers of Muhammad who is our prophet the last of the line of prophets of God. We worship Allah (God) the One God of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Jesus, Noah, Moses, David, Shuaib, Soloman and many others named and unnamed. Our God is neither moon, nor sun nor resembles anything in the universe.

Our Lord is the one who created everything in, around and in between the universe. As I understand there are many Catholics whom I have befriended who also share our beliefs and that is why we Muslims call them brothers in the Abrahamic faith. Christians and Jews are also our brothers and sisters in the Abrahamic faith despite our differences we all worship Rabbil Alamin, translation: The Lord of the worlds. I hope that your journey is not motivated by finding Al-Qaeda here, or Osama or any other terrorist group. We are mostly adults, mothers, fathers, students, teachers, doctors etc. even FBI agents LOL

I hope your stay is adventurous and full of knowledge and curiousity.

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Khadija1021
 
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Quote Khadija1021 Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2005 at 12:38pm

Americancrusader,

If you truly care to enlighten us as you claim you have come here to do, it would be far more effective if you replaced the word "Islamo-Jihadists" with the term “terrorists."  Despite your claim that only those who are sympathetic with terrorism would be offended by that phrase, I personally know of no Muslim who would not be offended by it simply on the grounds that it is a derogatory term which insults the very heart of Islam.   Maybe you are of the misconception that only Muslims are terrorist and that is why you insist on using that phrase to put emphasis on that point.  I would hope that your thinking is not that shallow however.  Even a good Catholic soul as yourself knows that terrorism is not the product of Islam but is the product of HUMAN ERROR. 

 

When a person of any faith be it Judaism, Christianity, or Islam takes it upon him/herself to perform an act of terrorism, in doing so, they step outside of their faith, not more deeply into it.  You tend to understand this fact when it comes to Christianity as you say “What we don't tolerate and will always expose are hate-mongering people who try to identify themselves as Christians.”  However, when it comes to the actions of those who claim to be Muslim and do such acts, you have this to say, “I look forward to the day when Islam will police their own and eradicate the hate-filled jihadists within their faith.”  Do you see how you twist the wording so that it appears that Christians are not responsible for the behavior of those who call themselves Christians; however, you do not grant that same charitable thought when it comes to Muslims in Islam?  The truth of the matter is that it is one way or the other Americancrusader, sorry but you can’t have it both ways and still say you are being “logical” or “ethical.”  So, which way will it be?

 

You know what I look forward to Americancrusader?  I look forward to the day when the rest of the world steps back and allows Muslims to enjoy the freedom that the Jews and Christians of this world enjoy.  That is what I look forward too.  I pray to Allah it will happen during my lifetime.  Ameen

 

Brother Israfil, Jazak Allah for you post.

 

PAZ, Khadija

 

Say: 'My prayer and my rites, my living and my dying, are for Allah alone, the Lord of all the worlds. (Qur'an, 6:162)
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2005 at 1:49pm

Shukran Sister Khadija what I say is something brief that many of us believers believe

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americancrusade
 
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Quote americancrusade Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2005 at 2:35pm

Brothers Israfil and Khadija,

Israfil,

Thank you for your gracious hospitality and forwarning.  I too appreciate and value your stated concept of Jihad and view it to be of a noble nature and wholly support it.  It is not my intent to evangelize or confront anyone for the sake of confrontation and intend to respect all who contribute.  Thank you for your praise and patience with my limited knowledge of the Q'ran.

Khadija,

My same thanks to you for your graciousness and kind words.  To respond to your assertion that I do not hold Islam to the same standard when it comes to 'hate-mongering".  I clearly stated as Christians, we do not tolerate this and call it for what it is.  In effect, we identify them and denounce them as a Christian community.

You point out that I do not afford Islam the same courtesy.  I may be wrong and very much desire to be wrong.  I would hope to NOT see Muslim Clerics on television hailing acts of terrorism and suicide bombings as acts of Martyrdom.  As you state, these are not acts of Islam, yet I see no one from the Islamic hierarchy remove a Clerics authority after making such statements!  I believe I have heard of it happening in Lodi, California and that was done by those from within the community.  This Cleric is free to go and preach hate at any other Mosque.  

Conversely, imagine a Catholic Cardinal (Modern day, mind you) or Bishop standing up and calling for violence against Muslims?  Our Catholic authority, (Pope, Vatican, Rome etc..) as well as the Catholic community would immediately remove someone like this from power and denounce them unfit to serve our Father, or ANY OTHER Catholic community.  I do not wish to offend, only to understand..As such, I am fearful of offending all if I continue on with this subject and will yield to all the last word on it.  

With much Peace and respect to all.

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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2005 at 3:07pm

Americano Crusader, my friend, I like your smell. I am glad you could not find the hate-filled atmosphere here that is attributed to and spun about these poor Mozlems by certain admins, possibly, to mask their own crimes of oppression of Muslims, which has been rampant through the tenure of the British empire and, then they passed the mantle on to their English Speaking cousins on the other side of the Pond.

May I request you please to explain what you mean by; Now, that does not mean every Catholic wants to forgive the evil done to Christians by Islamo-Jihadists,

What evil was done to the Christians by the "Islamo-Jihadists"?

I have seen Muslims, Christians and Jews living in perfect harmony for far far far longer than the Brit intelligence would want us to believe. They have worked together, like the brothers they are, in el-Andalus and in Ottoman Turkey.

Saint John was a drinking companion of Haroon ur Rasheed and they obviously discussed a fairly wide range of topics besides toasting a glass of red or the other to each other. In those days Islam was taken as a string of Christianity. My friend, the Muslims I have met do not seem to consider Christianity or the Christians as any threat.

Only our master want us to consider each other as a threat. Ever heard of the great Divide and Rule formula?

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rocitreal
 
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Quote rocitreal Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2005 at 8:17pm
Originally posted by Khadija1021

I personally believe one of the biggest problems Muslims face today is the phrase "Islamic terrorism."  To refer to the violence that some individuals have brought about in the world today as "Islamic terrorism" is simply ludicrous. 

 

I see your point, but to me one of the biggest problems are all these people going around calling america imperialist.  Saying they accually want to colonize the world with imperialistic desires this is simply ludicrous to me.  This is fuel for the hatred and misconseption just as you feel the term Islamic Terrorism does.

 

Nice to have you on board american crusade.  Your name is a bit of a question to me, what is it you mean by this name ?

 

I to am very pleased with this board and feel there are very many nice people here.  I must say, i was looking for the same kind of hate filled boards you were when finding it.  I wanted to speak out against the ignorance, to my liking most people on this board are not closed minded and a joy to discuss issues with.



Edited by rocitreal
Peace, its more than a word its a dream.
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 21 July 2005 at 6:22am
I think one of the biggest problems the world faces today is the ignorance of mankind. Until that is resolved we will always continue to fight, have wars, kill each other, rape etc etc.
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rocitreal
 
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Quote rocitreal Replybullet Posted: 21 July 2005 at 10:49am

Originally posted by Israfil

I think one of the biggest problems the world faces today is the ignorance of mankind. Until that is resolved we will always continue to fight, have wars, kill each other, rape etc etc.

Thats so true,   Humans are not all good or bad in any part of the world.  Ignorance is bliss.



Edited by rocitreal
Peace, its more than a word its a dream.
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