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Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2005 at 1:54am

5:65  and if it were that the People of the Book had faith and been cautious, We should indeed have blotted out their iniquities and admitted them to gardens of bliss.

5:66 If it were that they had stood fast by the Law(the torah), the evangel, and that which was sent down to them from their Lord, they would have ate from above them and from beneath their feet. There is from among them a party on the right course: but many of them evil is that which they do.

I leave you all with this.

 All praise is to Allah, Lord of the worlds.

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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2005 at 6:54am

Yaar, Comm, it wasn't overly dramatic. It's just that I have come to gather a bit of that typically British sense of humour since I have lived amongst them for such a long time.

I admire your posts, always, but more when you are not showing us just the one side of oppression. (just between you and I, the US has institutionally oppressed more people for far longer than any of our sultans)

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Quote Lameese Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2005 at 3:00pm

The USA has only been around 200+ years.......and in all that time it has oppressed people longer than anyone anywhere? That's bright!

 

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Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2005 at 5:07pm

So opression has one side you believe Whisper? and all those power greedy opressors are the US's work? surely you can see the untruthfulness in this, like the US has a power over people's choices wether they choose to be good or bad, If, and i seriously do not like to use the word 'if" since life is about what is. But if the US had not existed, do you really think opression would sease to exist? or would there still have been people around hungry for power and killing others just to having people under them to bully around? ofcourse the answer is yes.

I do believe the US could have chosen better partners to work with in the middle east, but the truth is, people who hunger for power are the ones that stand out on the world stage to the US i think, the US perceived these people as likely to last, and i guess they chose the ones who would fit the best in respect of their interests, who would not go against them and would cause a stable middle east in their view where they can get their oil supply without having to worry about those leaders being over thrown and with this their interests becoming at risk. It is the unfortunate reality that these power hungry people usually become opressors, and when they go against the US and it's interests, they get isolated and eventually over thrown. I hope the arab world starts to mend their ways, and I hope the US will come to see that the best people to work with are those who do not hunger for power and who see a stable middle east as in their best interest also. And these people i am talking about are not those who present themselves all agreeing with the US just to get into power, because these kind of people are usually treacherous. It is rather the people who agree with the US on certain points but agrees with them on other and do not see it as a problem to do fair business with the US and the world. Hard to find i am sure you can see this dilemma, so a stable middle east is a very problematic issue.

As for Saudi Arabia, and those leaders there, they have caused alot of problems with spreading their version of islam through their enourmous resources just to look islamic to the rest of the arab and islamic world, And the ruling group was the one who would side against the ottomans together with the british and americans in return for a good deal on their oil reserves, again an unfortunate miscalculation in seeing those who agree with you as the best choice, because they turned out more harmful then good, asking 40 $ and more for a barrel of stuff that they do not even make with their own hands but just gushes out of the ground while the whole world depends on it is ridiculous in my view, instead of asking a reasonable price for it as to pay off the workers and provide a healthy and good society for all the people living there, they rather put the money in their own pockets or use it to spread their intollerant views to other parts of the world. Simply because through that version of islam of theirs they try to secure themselves in the world. Just look at how next to Saudi Arabia there is Solamlia, Eritrea and Ethiopia, the poorest countries in the world, instead of doing the islamic thing of spending it in the way of Allah, to feed the poor and help them achieve a good society they let them fight amongst eachother and let them die of hunger. So i am not suprised when people in the west lash out against islam and muslims, i understand it because they have a reason to, can you not understand their choice of ignorance towards islam because of the corruptedness of the people who supposedly adhere to it? all they see from us is our reluctance to do something against terrorism and blame it on the west instead. Walking around in our islamic clothes with our heads up like we are showing off our beard, like we are trying to say:"i am right, cause i have a beard and dress this way" and talking in our own languages instead of learning the language of the place we live and laugh and look at the society we live in as being evil and not worthy of us and even have the nerve to critisize them like we have something good to show for...i honestly can understand their frustration, so what are we going to do about this mess? shall we just keep on pointing our fingers, and critisize them while we do not do much to better the situation? or actually try to do the right thing and look forward to the victory of Allah through doing the right thing?



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Quote ZamanH Replybullet Posted: 21 July 2005 at 1:52am
Originally posted by Community

So opression has one side you believe Whisper? and all those power greedy opressors are the US's work? surely you can see the untruthfulness in this, like the US has a power over people's choices wether they choose to be good or bad, If, and i seriously do not like to use the word 'if" since life is about what is. But if the US had not existed, do you really think opression would sease to exist? 

No, but it certainly will be less (much less...). And that (elimination of all oppression) is simply not the subject of discussion. Simply because you don't have anything to say, you want to  subtly change the course of the discussion.

An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet
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Quote b95000 Replybullet Posted: 21 July 2005 at 3:39pm
Originally posted by ZamanH

Originally posted by Community

So opression has one side you believe Whisper? and all those power greedy opressors are the US's work? surely you can see the untruthfulness in this, like the US has a power over people's choices wether they choose to be good or bad, If, and i seriously do not like to use the word 'if" since life is about what is. But if the US had not existed, do you really think opression would sease to exist? 

No, but it certainly will be less (much less...). And that (elimination of all oppression) is simply not the subject of discussion. Simply because you don't have anything to say, you want to  subtly change the course of the discussion.



Really?  You think so?  What do you suppose would have come of the world under Nazi Germany, The Soviet Gulags, etc, etc, etc...without the US and other democracies opposing them...sprechen de Deutsch Zaman?  Let's get realisitic here - you think the US more heinous than those I mentioned (or others) to the point that oppression would have been much less without her?!


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Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 21 July 2005 at 9:20pm

O people of the book, you have no ground to stand upon, you are upon nothing unless you implement the torah, the evangel and what is sent down to you from your Lord.

 

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Quote Lameese Replybullet Posted: 21 July 2005 at 9:44pm
Originally posted by ZamanH

Originally posted by Community

So opression has one side you believe Whisper? and all those power greedy opressors are the US's work? surely you can see the untruthfulness in this, like the US has a power over people's choices wether they choose to be good or bad, If, and i seriously do not like to use the word 'if" since life is about what is. But if the US had not existed, do you really think opression would sease to exist? 

No, but it certainly will be less (much less...). And that (elimination of all oppression) is simply not the subject of discussion. Simply because you don't have anything to say, you want to  subtly change the course of the discussion.

 

Evidently you have never heard of Rowanda......but then again, you are stuck in the West as per usual........

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