Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Current Events
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Politics : Current Events
Message Icon Topic: Muslims, conspiracy theories and blame cu Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 15 Next >>
Author Message
Whisper
Male Other
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 25 July 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4752
Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2005 at 11:06am

I always love when I smell a planted attempt at diverting attention from the London and Washington mischieves.

Look at yourselves for the answers to the disfunctionality of your countries and communities. Stop blaming others.

Some Rezz has quoted this in response to ZamanH. The poor soul isn't aware of the fact that the English would never have gone to India if it were some disfunctional spot in the world. This country was the centre of the arts, architecture, people living in harmony with each other. The country turned out 72% of the GLOBAL produce. You really want me to detail the Brit badmashi in India? Or, jut how the English implemented communal hatred (with a well documented) Mayo Plan - since 1894?

Or, you want me to chronicle the British badmashi in Falesteen?

If someone mugs you in the street or holds you hostage with smuggled arms (in the guise of medicines or some other trade goods) you will blame yourself for being robbed, beaten up or even for being left dead by the pavement?

Shall we then blame you for this occupation of Iraq instead of the lying Brit government? You are right, it was Faulty Intelligence!!

Of the two intelligence heads, One has been promoted to the highest office in the land and the other on that side of the pond has been given the Medal of Freedom.

If it's not west's crime then it must be your's - for it's definitely not mine.



Edited by Whisper
IP IP Logged
ZamanH
 
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar
Account Suspended

Joined: 21 July 2004
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 448
Quote ZamanH Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2005 at 11:12pm
Originally posted by MOCKBA

Bismillah

Some of the most bitter enemies of the early Ummah became the most prominent Muslims. Our greatest threat lies in ignorance of the way of the Early Muslims... the way of Quran and Sunnah. And May Allah guide us right.

Thauban reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Allah drew the ends of the world near one another for my sake. And I have seen its eastern and western ends. And the dominion of my Unimah would reach those ends which have been drawn near me and I have been granted the red and the white trea- sure and I begged my Lord for my Ummah that it should not be destroyed because of famine, nor be dominated by an enemy who is not amongst them to take their lives and destroy them root and branch, and my Lord said: Muhammad, whenever I make a decision, there is none to change it. Well, I grant you for your Ummah that it would not be destroyed by famine and it would not be dominated by an enemy who would not be amongst it and would take their lives and destroy them root and branch even if all the people from the different parts of the world join hands together (for this purpose), but it would be from amongst them, viz. your Ummah, that some people would kill the others or imprison the others. (Sahih Muslim Book 41, No. 6904)

Ok, to correct myself, Western is not the greatest of all threat but its certaibly the immediate threat. If entire Ummah is considered a house, than it certainly has many problems such as ever weakinging wall, broken pipes  and no electricity etc. and the problem of sectarianism can be seen as a tree growing within a house, threatening to bring down the entire house. But the Western threat is like a big FIRE in the house which must be extinguished first. Other problem are more difficult to solve but the fire must be extinguished first anyway.

Also, I hope Mockba that you also understand that hadiths that you have quoted only means that we will win against our enemies when we fight against them (i.e we will surely extinguish the fire) but not fighting our enemies believing we can't be destroyed does not make any sense.

An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet
IP IP Logged
MOCKBA
 
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 27 September 2000
Location: Malaysia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1410
Quote MOCKBA Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2005 at 1:03am

Bismillah

Brother Zaman, the above hadith may not necessarily mean that we should not fight our enemies. However, we should not be too pre-occupied with our enemies' intention to destroy us, their secret plots and conspiracies. This is not something that is going to destroy us, it is not something that is destroying us now.

The immediate threat applies to all times. It is ignorance of God's commands. It is also 'believing' in commands but failing to act upon them. If the commands are fulfilled, if obedience to Allah (Malik-ul-Mulk) is established we will not need to remind ourselves of the importance of unity, peace, justice...  If such foundation is not established we shall never achieve unity, brotherhood, prosperity and success, as such there wont' be left much to save from the fire of our enemies.

While our religious leaders quarrel over the length of their beards, they fail to recognise the fact that many Muslims have not grasped the true meaning of Shahada. The meaning of Shahada took the Messenger (peace be upon him) many years to instill in the hearts of the Early Ummah... then came the prayer... then came the true unity and much later the first battle took place. You can't get a shortcut to Paradise by just blowing yourself up...  

In many other ahadith (widely cited throughout discussions here) the Messenger has numerously indicated and warned us of what will contribute to the destruction of Ummah. That is immediate threat. Americans won't destroy you, Jews won't destroy you, Russians won't destroy you... ignorance of Allah will bring His anger upon everyone... and what can possibly be more destructive.

And I must also admit that it is much easier for me to discuss the subject in the comfort of peace... but i hope that the basic principle is not distorted. And may Allah guide us to the Straight Path. 



Edited by MOCKBA
MOCKBA
IP IP Logged
firewall
 
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 06 November 2004
Location: Malaysia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 215
Quote firewall Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2005 at 2:15am


Edited by firewall
IP IP Logged
Community
 
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar

Joined: 19 May 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1135
Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2005 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by Rezz


Now consider your own words from another post. "Killing of innocents is not in line with Islam". How many times do we hear this? So what is an "Innocent?". Who except for Allah can judge who is Innocent? The inclusion of the word "Innocent" in the Koran is an example of why Islam is flawed. The Torah and the Bible have the absolute "You shall not kill". No exceptions!

the word innocent can not be found in the koran, maybe the english interpretation of the koran but not in the arabic koran, In the koran it says that "Allah forbids the killing of the soul(nafs) which Allah made holy(harramahaa) except with the truth."

And what is with truth? well for instance if some people forbid you to worship One god and tell you to leave your faith(like the time of the prophet), and come out to fight you and you defend yourself, because you rather have peace with Allah then with unjust people like these, then you kill them with the truth, the truth that they have no right to forbid you from practising your religion and certainly no right to kill you for it. With truth....see in the english intepretation of the koran it says :"except for a just cause", instead of "with truth", so i think this can make a person think that something is a just cause and that it is allowed to kill for it, but if he had read "except with truth" he would probebly wonder, "what is the truth?" and he would not kill someone untill he finds out the truth, which ofcourse is the right way. So interpreting the verse that says it is forbidden to kill a soul except for a just cause, is wrong, it should be translated in this case and not interpreted. "Just cause" should be "with the truth" (bi al haqq) 

Yes, there are bad Jews and bad Christians just as much as there are bad Muslims. But philosophically it is so much more difficult for Jews and Christians to justify killing in the name of their God. I AM NOT SAYING THEY DON'T DO IT! Just that it is clearly against their ideology. However, in Islam it seems that as long as the people killed were "Guilty" of something or a "Threat" to Muslims then the killer might even go to heaven!  Am I wrong? A little bit, Moses fought wars, conquered lands, David also, Solomon and also our prophet Muhammed faced war and had to fight. Not to say that this justifies terrorism, again it should be with truth, not some conspiracy theories.

I hope you understand my arguments in the spirit they are meant. I do not wish to offend Muslims. I simply wish demonstrate that flawed ideologies, whether political or religious will create dysfunctional societies. Look at Communism. And the people in power will go to vicious lengths to stifle debate or criticism. (Look at Iran). Mockba, you are clearly an educated and intelligent person. Forget the conspiracy theories. Stop blaming the whole world. The answer is closer to home. I understand your frustration about people, but remember islam is arabic for the only faith Allah will accept from the people, it means submission to Him, while wishing His peace in doing so, the only true faith is this, to do what He wishes from us and to leave what He dislikes for us, and with this we hope to please Him, there is no other true faith then this : submission to Him, while wishing His peace (islam)



Edited by Community
IP IP Logged
Colin
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 23 September 2001
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1257
Quote Colin Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2005 at 3:25am

 

Community

I have a problem with the word truth, I know it is only a simple word, but when one starts to define what the word truth actually means, that's when the problems start. Truth is obviously dependent on what a person believes to be the truth. If we take religion for example, Islam's truth is not Buddhism's truth, Buddhism's truth is not Christianity's truth etc, etc.

So when we start to fight others with the "truth", we are fighting with a firm belief that we know what God's truth is.The problems generally happen not because somebody holds a particular faith, it's when they use their faith as justification for killing those who adhere to other faiths or no particular faith at all. The simple word "truth" seems to have so many definitions for us humble humans beings to contend with. I can't honestly say I know which is the true definition of the word "truth", thus in recognising my ignorance, I will not allow myself to kill someone and justify my actions as being part of the struggle for the truth.

IP IP Logged
firewall
 
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 06 November 2004
Location: Malaysia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 215
Quote firewall Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2005 at 10:53am


Edited by firewall
IP IP Logged
Khadija1021
 
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 30 June 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 530
Quote Khadija1021 Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2005 at 11:52am

Assalamu Alaikum

Brother MOCKBA, Jazak Allah for your posts in this thread.  You are right, we Muslims need to have faith in Allah and strive to live according to the Qur'an and Sunnah.  That is the way to success as Muslims. 

Rezz, every person since Allah created Adam was born a Muslim.  Even those that were not born to Muslim parents.   Some of them find their way back to Allah, and some don't.  It's obvious by your post that even those born closest to Islam may not find their way back.  It seems that you may have traded Islam for cozy western comforts.  Allah said some will do that and in doing so, they seek their rewards here on earth instead of in heaven.  Alhamdulillah even though I was raised with cozy western comforts far away from Islam, Allah was able to guide me to Islam.  Allahu Akbar!

PAZ, Khadija

Say: 'My prayer and my rites, my living and my dying, are for Allah alone, the Lord of all the worlds. (Qur'an, 6:162)
IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 15 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com