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Douggg
 
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Quote Douggg Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2009 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

Originally posted by Douggg

Originally posted by islamispeace

Douggg: What specific verses in Ezekiel 38 and 39 are you saying is corrupted, not from God? 

Like I said, the obsession that Israel is God's chosen nation, and screw everyone else.

There may be some truth in the Old Testament, the chapters of Ezekiel included.  But, there is also a lot of falsehood.  One of them, I think, is that God favors the Jews, whether they sin or not, over everyone else and treats them differently, even to the point that they are considered superior to everyone else.  This is not becoming of a just and fair God.


Could you do a copy and paste of the official Muslim version of Ezekiel 38 & 39 which shows only the uncorrupted verses?

Doug L.  


There is no official version of Ezekiel.  We have our own knowledge of the end times.  According to those sources, Imam Mahdi will lead the Muslims during the reign of the Antichrist and Jesus will descend in Damascus and kill the Antichrist.  After that, Gog and Magog will be released and spread throughout the world, only to be destroyed and fed on by birds and beasts, similar to the Ezekiel account.  But, Gog and Magog will not be Muslims. 


But you said that Ezekiel 38 & 39 are corrupted.   If you don't have the official muslim version uncorrupted version of Ezekiel 38 & 39, then those verses found in the King James are the word of God.    Which means your commentary is an innovation and your opinion is out of step with God, if you don't like what is written in Ezekiel 38 & 39.      

Where are muslims getting their own knowledge of the end times?  What documents? 

Ezekiel 38 & 39 don't say anything about Gog and Magog being released throughout the world.   It is in the mountains and valleys of Israel that Gog's army will be destroyed, Ezekiel 39:5-6, which was written 1000 years before Mohamed.

Do your official muslim word of Allah sources say that Gog/Magog invades Israel?   And that God defends Israel? 
  If not, it is the muslim source that is corrupted, since Islam has no Official Muslim version of the Bible with only the uncorrupted version of Ezekiel 38 & 39, because Islam says that Allah keeps his book from being corrupted.   So Ezekiel 38 & 39 of the KJV, is the uncorrupted word of God.

From now on, please post the Official Muslim version of the Bible of Allah's perserved word of uncorrupted verses, whenever you make a comment about the KJV version being corrupted - otherwise you are making unfounded innovations.

Doug L.
  

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Quote truthnowcome Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2009 at 10:15pm

Originally posted by Douggg

Hi, I am 60 years old and have been a Christian since my early twenties.   Bible prophecy is my passion and I studied it intensely for most of my adult life.
Doug L.

Peace my friend, welcome to the truth!

Good to hear that, but according to what you have mentioned it doesn’t seems to me you’ve got it right, in other words, you didn’t see the other side.

Originally posted by Douggg


If you want to know the future of Islam, one has to know (1) what Judaism is expecting of their forthcoming messiah (someone other than Jesus (2) about the reign and rule of the Antichrist.  Because Islam and the muslim nations in the middle east definitely are a factor.

Doug L.

That is what I am saying and you are so wrong! If you want to know the future of Islam find out here on this link:

MUHAMMAD & QURAN FORETOLD IN BIBBLE
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 20 21

Originally posted by Douggg


To the point, Islam as a worldwide religion as it is now will be destroyed (not by Christians nor the Jews) just before the arrival of Antichrist  - who will poise as Judiasm's messiah.    When Islam is destroyed, and the Antichrist arrives in Jerusalem right afterwards.    The Jews will think that the world has entered the messianic time of peace.

Here is the biblical support.   In Ezekiel 38, all of the countries listed with the exception of Russia are Muslim countries.    God, Himself, by supernatural means, will destroy Islam because of the false teachings that it has advanced.

Stop dreaming my friend! Islam is not false. First you have to explain who these people are and where they come from: Rev.2:9 says: I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.”

Originally posted by Douggg


In Ezekiel 39, the seven year time of the Antichrist is the seven years of Israel burning the remains of the invading Russian/Muslim armies (probably the diesel) for fuel instead of wood.

Now here is something that you are almost certainly not aware.   But I invite you to read (from the King James version) Ezekiel 39:4 and Ezekiel 39:17-20.   Those two passages deal with the birds and beasts of the field eating up the carcasses of the dead.

However, it is describing "two" feasts, not one, separated by 7 years.     The Ezekiel 39:4 feast is the Gog/Magog feast.    Then in Ezekiel 39:17-20 that feast is the Armageddon feats that comes 7 years later.   I can elaborate futher if you want, as to why those are two different feasts.

   That is your hoping and wishful thinking, you are more wrong here than ever. The feast in Ezekiel 39:17-20 tie into Revelation 19:17-18 and it is not the Armageddon it is the beginning in the making of Armageddon, wrong here again also Armageddon comes first then a thousand year after will be the destruction of Gog and Magog which leads us into the Day of Judgment, It’s all in Revelation 20. WAKE UP!

Originally posted by Douggg


In addition, the 7 years is found in Revelation 12.   The first half is in Revelation 12:6.    Israel (the woman) is in a wilderness for 1260 days (the same 1260 days given as the testimony time of the two prophets.   She is in the wilderness because she had just be protected from the Gog/Magog destruction, but has yet to accept Jesus as her messiah.     Also, she has unwittingly embraced the Antichrist as her messiah, who shows up in Israel immediately after the destruction of Islam, in the Gog/Magog invasion.

The destruction of Islam will allow for Israel to complete the rebuilding of the Temple on the temple mount.    Which 3 1/2 years later will be defiled by the
Antichrist.

Wrong there again! Revelation 12 is not about Israel it is all about the Church and the universal Prophet and your Gog and Magog bedtime story nobody will be protected from them except the Muslims because in a saying of the Prophet (S) he mentioned to the effect that, Allah (S) will send a breeze and take all the souls of them before that destruction.

Note: that destruction will come from heaven.  Revelation20: 7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

The beloved city is Mecca.

Originally posted by Douggg

In addition, the 7 years is found in Revelation 12.   The first half is in Revelation 12:6.    Israel (the woman) is in a wilderness for 1260 days (the same 1260 days given as the testimony time of the two prophets.   She is in the wilderness because she had just be protected from the Gog/Magog destruction, but has yet to accept Jesus as her messiah.     Also, she has unwittingly embraced the Antichrist as her messiah, who shows up in Israel immediately after the destruction of Islam, in the Gog/Magog invasion.

The destruction of Islam will allow for Israel to complete the rebuilding of the Temple on the temple mount.    Which 3 1/2 years later will be defiled by the
Antichrist.

Rebuild what temple after 31/2 year later after Gog and Magog destroyed Islam when Revelation 20:10-15 contradicted you bad dream:10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I will deal with the rest later, this is a good start.

 

Originally posted by Douggg

Hi, I am 60 years old and have been a Christian since my early twenties.   Bible prophecy is my passion and I studied it intensely for most of my adult life.
Doug L.

I have highlighted your above quote; it seems to me you have to intensify your studies more.

Br. Hack N.C.

LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!
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Quote Douggg Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2009 at 6:21am
Originally posted by truthnowcome

Originally posted by Douggg

Hi, I am 60 years old and have been a Christian since my early twenties.   Bible prophecy is my passion and I studied it intensely for most of my adult life.
Doug L.

Peace my friend, welcome to the truth!

Good to hear that, but according to what you have mentioned it doesn’t seems to me you’ve got it right, in other words, you didn’t see the other side.

Originally posted by Douggg


If you want to know the future of Islam, one has to know (1) what Judaism is expecting of their forthcoming messiah (someone other than Jesus (2) about the reign and rule of the Antichrist.  Because Islam and the muslim nations in the middle east definitely are a factor.

Doug L.

That is what I am saying and you are so wrong! If you want to know the future of Islam find out here on this link:

MUHAMMAD & QURAN FORETOLD IN BIBBLE
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 20 21 


Hi Mr. Zainool,

Jesus warned of false prophets that would come after him and will lead many astray.  Mohamed is the greatest of those so far.   But he will be out done by the Antichrist and False Prophet in Revelation.

Islam will be destroyed at Gog/Magog which immediately precedes the 7 year time of the Antichrist.   At the midpoint of that 7 year, the slain and resurrected Antichrist, thenceforth called "the beast" will deceive the whole world into believing him to be god.    With the exception of those who's name are written in the Lamb's book of Life, Revelation 13:8.   Since muslims don't believe that Jesus is the Lamb of God who was sent to take away the sins of the world, their names are not written in the Lamb's book of Life, slain meaning crucified, from the foundation of the world.    That's how long God has prepared the way of redemption of man's fall at the garden of Eden.   Here's the verse...

Revelation 13:8 And ALL that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Originally posted by Douggg


To the point, Islam as a worldwide religion as it is now will be destroyed (not by Christians nor the Jews) just before the arrival of Antichrist  - who will poise as Judiasm's messiah.    When Islam is destroyed, and the Antichrist arrives in Jerusalem right afterwards.    The Jews will think that the world has entered the messianic time of peace.

Here is the biblical support.   In Ezekiel 38, all of the countries listed with the exception of Russia are Muslim countries.    God, Himself, by supernatural means, will destroy Islam because of the false teachings that it has advanced.

Stop dreaming my friend! Islam is not false. First you have to explain who these people are and where they come from: Rev.2:9 says: I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” 

No, I do not have to explain Revelation 2:9.   The countries listed in Ezekiel 38 & 39 are muslim, except for Russia, which is a muslim ally and is providing weapons and nuclear support for Iran.    And it is the muslims who want Israel destroyed.   They have already made at least three major efforts, since Israel became a nation again,  but God has turned the muslims back every single time.  Gog/Magog will be the last time.

Regarding Revelation 2:9, I am aware of the Muslim attempt to twist Ezekiel 38 & 39 to claim the invaders are false Jews coming out of Europe.   Are those teachings specific to Ezekiel 38 & 39 found in the Quran or Hadiths?  If not, it is innovations.

Originally posted by Douggg


In Ezekiel 39, the seven year time of the Antichrist is the seven years of Israel burning the remains of the invading Russian/Muslim armies (probably the diesel) for fuel instead of wood.

Now here is something that you are almost certainly not aware.   But I invite you to read (from the King James version) Ezekiel 39:4 and Ezekiel 39:17-20.   Those two passages deal with the birds and beasts of the field eating up the carcasses of the dead.

However, it is describing "two" feasts, not one, separated by 7 years.     The Ezekiel 39:4 feast is the Gog/Magog feast.    Then in Ezekiel 39:17-20 that feast is the Armageddon feats that comes 7 years later.   I can elaborate futher if you want, as to why those are two different feasts.

   That is your hoping and wishful thinking, you are more wrong here than ever. The feast in Ezekiel 39:17-20 tie into Revelation 19:17-18 and it is not the Armageddon it is the beginning in the making of Armageddon, wrong here again also Armageddon comes first then a thousand year after will be the destruction of Gog and Magog which leads us into the Day of Judgment, It’s all in Revelation 20. WAKE UP! 

The feast in Ezekiel 39:17-20 does tie to Revelation 19:17-18, agreed.  Yes, it is the Armageddon feast because in Revelation 16:13-16, the beast (the Antichrist, the False Prophet, and the dragon (Satan) seduce the world's kings to make war upon Jesus in attempt to stop Jesus's return.  The assemble, gather themselfs, at Aramageddon. Revelation 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

There are no more mention of "Aramgeddon" afterwards in the Christian bible.

After Aramageddon, Jesus reigns and rules upon this earth for 1000 years.  At the end of the 1000 years, Satan is released from the bottomless pit for a short time and leads another rebellion.   Gog and Magog included.

Your argument is that because Gog/Magog are at the end of the thousand years, Ezekiel 38 & 39 is timed to be at the end of the thousand years, right?

Your arguments is incorrect, because (1) Gog is a fallen angel, like the Prince of Persia, and the Prince of Greece of Daniel 10 (2) Magog is the area that Gog has influence over.   In Daniel 12, the angel that watches over Israel is Michael.

So Gog is not a man.   That is how he can appear in the pre- Antichrist reign, in Ezekiel 38-39 and again a thousand years later at the end of Jesus's millenial reign on thise present earth.

Here's the bible proof of why Ezekiel 38-39 is not at the end of the thousand years, in Revelation 20.     Following the Ekeziel invasion of Gog/Magog, there is a clean up of the land and 7 years of burning the remains (the diesel IMO) of Gog's army as fuel.  As well as cleaning up the land of all the dead bodies, which takes 7 months and Ezekiel 39:12-16 gives great detail of the cleaning of the land.

However, in Revelation 20, following Satan's last rebellion, accompanied by Gog, againover the land of Magog, leading a great multitude are quickly destroyed by fire coming down from heaven to consume all of them.     

THERE ARE NO SEVEN YEARS FOLLOWING the Gog/Magog attack in Revelation 20, like in Ezekiel 39.    THERE IS NO CLEANSING OF THE LAND like in Ezekiel 39.... because it says there is no more heaven and earth afterwards.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Following the great white throne Judgement, it says in Revelation 21, there is a new heaven, a new earth, and a new Jerusalem

Chapter 21

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

New Jerusalem, NOT MECCA....!!!!!

Originally posted by Douggg


In addition, the 7 years is found in Revelation 12.   The first half is in Revelation 12:6.    Israel (the woman) is in a wilderness for 1260 days (the same 1260 days given as the testimony time of the two prophets.   She is in the wilderness because she had just be protected from the Gog/Magog destruction, but has yet to accept Jesus as her messiah.     Also, she has unwittingly embraced the Antichrist as her messiah, who shows up in Israel immediately after the destruction of Islam, in the Gog/Magog invasion.

The destruction of Islam will allow for Israel to complete the rebuilding of the Temple on the temple mount.    Which 3 1/2 years later will be defiled by the
Antichrist.

Wrong there again! Revelation 12 is not about Israel it is all about the Church and the universal Prophet and your Gog and Magog bedtime story nobody will be protected from them except the Muslims because in a saying of the Prophet (S) he mentioned to the effect that, Allah (S) will send a breeze and take all the souls of them before that destruction.

In Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

The woman is Israel, not the church, because the description above of is the same that Joseph had in a dream of Israel back in Exodus 37:9.   The Church is not mentioned during the time of the Antichrist in Revelation, which the account begins in Revelation 6 with the opening of the seals and ends in Revelation 19 with the Antichrist being cast into the laske of fire.   The Church, the body of believers will be raptured out of the world before the time of the Antichrist, and will be returning with Jesus as his bride.

 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

There will be three separate resurrections, which covers all of humanity.  Everyone takes part in one, and only one, of these three resurrections.

1. The resurrection and rapture of 1thess4:15-18, which takes place in my view, prior to the time of the Antichrist.

2. Then there will be the resurrection of those who became Christians during the time of the Antichrist and who were subsequently martyred.  Revelation 20:4-6.

3. Then there will be a resurrection for the great white throne judgement in Revelation 20:12-15

You have highlighted judged by their works.  

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 3:

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Do mulsims believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God?   Nope.

So no muslim, depending upon the amount of Truth of the gospel message received outside of the teachings of Islam, will have his name written in the book of life on Judgement day.

Well, what about little babies who die?   And what about people in all parts of the world who had never heard about Jesus?

The little babies and children of course have not reached an age of accountability, so their names will not have been erased from the book of life.

Persons, who had never heard about Jesus, they will be judged according to their works as being righteous or not, so that had they had the opportunity they would have accepted Jesus.    That is not specifically found in the nt, but it a comonly accepted position amongst Christians, based upon God's grace and mercy.

Doug L.  



Edited by Douggg - 19 July 2009 at 7:21am
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islamispeace
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2009 at 12:07pm
Originally posted by Douggg

Originally posted by islamispeace

Originally posted by Douggg

Originally posted by islamispeace

Douggg: What specific verses in Ezekiel 38 and 39 are you saying is corrupted, not from God? 

Like I said, the obsession that Israel is God's chosen nation, and screw everyone else.

There may be some truth in the Old Testament, the chapters of Ezekiel included.  But, there is also a lot of falsehood.  One of them, I think, is that God favors the Jews, whether they sin or not, over everyone else and treats them differently, even to the point that they are considered superior to everyone else.  This is not becoming of a just and fair God.


Could you do a copy and paste of the official Muslim version of Ezekiel 38 & 39 which shows only the uncorrupted verses?

Doug L.  


There is no official version of Ezekiel.  We have our own knowledge of the end times.  According to those sources, Imam Mahdi will lead the Muslims during the reign of the Antichrist and Jesus will descend in Damascus and kill the Antichrist.  After that, Gog and Magog will be released and spread throughout the world, only to be destroyed and fed on by birds and beasts, similar to the Ezekiel account.  But, Gog and Magog will not be Muslims. 


But you said that Ezekiel 38 & 39 are corrupted.   If you don't have the official muslim version uncorrupted version of Ezekiel 38 & 39, then those verses found in the King James are the word of God.    Which means your commentary is an innovation and your opinion is out of step with God, if you don't like what is written in Ezekiel 38 & 39.      

Where are muslims getting their own knowledge of the end times?  What documents? 

Ezekiel 38 & 39 don't say anything about Gog and Magog being released throughout the world.   It is in the mountains and valleys of Israel that Gog's army will be destroyed, Ezekiel 39:5-6, which was written 1000 years before Mohamed.

Do your official muslim word of Allah sources say that Gog/Magog invades Israel?   And that God defends Israel? 
  If not, it is the muslim source that is corrupted, since Islam has no Official Muslim version of the Bible with only the uncorrupted version of Ezekiel 38 & 39, because Islam says that Allah keeps his book from being corrupted.   So Ezekiel 38 & 39 of the KJV, is the uncorrupted word of God.

From now on, please post the Official Muslim version of the Bible of Allah's perserved word of uncorrupted verses, whenever you make a comment about the KJV version being corrupted - otherwise you are making unfounded innovations.

Doug L.
  




LOL Douggie, I will answer your questions when you answer mine.  You skipped 95% of my last response.  Answer my questions on Jesus being a racist, what happens to babies that die in infancy, and why it the Pharisees and Romans cannot be considered heroes for their killing of Jesus.  While you are answering these questions, I will begin preparing my response to your questions. 


Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Quote Douggg Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2009 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

Originally posted by Douggg

Originally posted by islamispeace

Originally posted by Douggg

Originally posted by islamispeace

Douggg: What specific verses in Ezekiel 38 and 39 are you saying is corrupted, not from God? 

Like I said, the obsession that Israel is God's chosen nation, and screw everyone else.

There may be some truth in the Old Testament, the chapters of Ezekiel included.  But, there is also a lot of falsehood.  One of them, I think, is that God favors the Jews, whether they sin or not, over everyone else and treats them differently, even to the point that they are considered superior to everyone else.  This is not becoming of a just and fair God.


Could you do a copy and paste of the official Muslim version of Ezekiel 38 & 39 which shows only the uncorrupted verses?

Doug L.  


There is no official version of Ezekiel.  We have our own knowledge of the end times.  According to those sources, Imam Mahdi will lead the Muslims during the reign of the Antichrist and Jesus will descend in Damascus and kill the Antichrist.  After that, Gog and Magog will be released and spread throughout the world, only to be destroyed and fed on by birds and beasts, similar to the Ezekiel account.  But, Gog and Magog will not be Muslims. 


But you said that Ezekiel 38 & 39 are corrupted.   If you don't have the official muslim version uncorrupted version of Ezekiel 38 & 39, then those verses found in the King James are the word of God.    Which means your commentary is an innovation and your opinion is out of step with God, if you don't like what is written in Ezekiel 38 & 39.      

Where are muslims getting their own knowledge of the end times?  What documents? 

Ezekiel 38 & 39 don't say anything about Gog and Magog being released throughout the world.   It is in the mountains and valleys of Israel that Gog's army will be destroyed, Ezekiel 39:5-6, which was written 1000 years before Mohamed.

Do your official muslim word of Allah sources say that Gog/Magog invades Israel?   And that God defends Israel? 
  If not, it is the muslim source that is corrupted, since Islam has no Official Muslim version of the Bible with only the uncorrupted version of Ezekiel 38 & 39, because Islam says that Allah keeps his book from being corrupted.   So Ezekiel 38 & 39 of the KJV, is the uncorrupted word of God.

From now on, please post the Official Muslim version of the Bible of Allah's perserved word of uncorrupted verses, whenever you make a comment about the KJV version being corrupted - otherwise you are making unfounded innovations.

Doug L.
  




LOL Douggie, I will answer your questions when you answer mine.  You skipped 95% of my last response.  Answer my questions on Jesus being a racist, what happens to babies that die in infancy, and why it the Pharisees and Romans cannot be considered heroes for their killing of Jesus.  While you are answering these questions, I will begin preparing my response to your questions. 


Mr. X, I skipped over your other comments and questions because once you see that Ezekiel 38 and 39 is God's condemnation of Islam, those questions, to me, become irrelavent to the salvation of your soul IMO.

Satan's goal is destroy both the Jews and Israel.   Also the souls of men.   Islam is just one of Satan's weapons.   As was the Catholic Church in the middle ages Shocked.  

Unfortunately, Satan has many persons deceived, thinking that they are doing God a service by destroying Israel and the Jews.   

Regarding the destiny of the babies who die, I responded in my previous post above, the first post on this page (6), near the end of the text.   

Regarding your false charge of Jesus being a racist, saying that he called the woman a dog, the woman was not offended as woud be in a racial slur because of the context of Jesus making a point in the terms of a parable.... "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

Jesus also greatly complimented her faith.   He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs." "Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table." Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Jesus in comparison to the animal kingdom even said of himself of his situation being less than that of the foxes and birds...Luke 9:58 And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.   

Jesus also referred to the Jews as lost sheep, and the Pharisees as snakes, and Herod as a fox.  Jesus used comparisons to the animal kingdom.  It was not racism, which is founded on hatred of one race against another.   Jesus loves everyone.   And gave his life accordingly... as the Lamb of God. 


Doug L.


Edited by Douggg - 19 July 2009 at 2:30pm
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Quote semar Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2009 at 1:41am
Doug: Satan's goal is destroy both the Jews and Israel.   Also the souls of men.   Islam is just one of Satan's weapons.   As was the Catholic Church in the middle ages

Semar: Wow, this is another interesting point.

Salam/Peace,
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Quote semar Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2009 at 1:59am
Doug:

Well, what about little babies who die?   And what about people in all parts of the world who had never heard about Jesus?

The little babies and children of course have not reached an age of accountability, so their names will not have been erased from the book of life.

Persons, who had never heard about Jesus, they will be judged according to their works as being righteous or not, so that had they had the opportunity they would have accepted Jesus.    That is not specifically found in the nt, but it a comonly accepted position amongst Christians, based upon God's grace and mercy.

Semar:
This the inconsistency of the original sin concept. It's very confusing. What did you say will only apply if there is no original sin. In Islam there is no original sins, that's why it's very easy to follow by logic. Babies who just born, do nothing, know nothing, still clean, so they have not had any sins yet, that why they are eligible to go to paradise. Because paradise is for the un-sin people.
Salam/Peace,
Semar
The Prophet said: "Do not eat before you are hungry, and stop eating before you are full"
"1/3 of your stomach for food 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"
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islamispeace
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2009 at 3:28pm
Douggg: Mr. X, I skipped over your other comments and questions because once you see that Ezekiel 38 and 39 is God's condemnation of Islam, those questions, to me, become irrelavent to the salvation of your soul IMO.

No, you are simply trying to dodge the questions, Dougggie! LOL

Because of the inconsistencies and contradictions of your religion, I know already that your interpretation of Ezekiel is wrong, if Ezekiel is indeed the unaltered word of God.  I know from the inconsistencies and contradictions that the Christian message is not the word of God.  So, your beliefs about the future are irrelevant.

Douggg: The little babies and children of course have not reached an age of accountability, so their names will not have been erased from the book of life.Persons, who had never heard about Jesus, they will be judged according to their works as being righteous or not, so that had they had the opportunity they would have accepted Jesus.    That is not specifically found in the nt, but it a comonly accepted position amongst Christians, based upon God's grace and mercy.

This directly contradicts what you have previously said.  See what I mean about the contradictions? Wink

This is what you said: It shows that you, as well as all who are of Adam's flesh, have inherited the penalty of sin, which is death...even before you committed a single sin.

You also admit that there is no scriptural basis for your claim that the infants will be saved.  I find it odd that the scriptures somehow forgot to discuss the fate of the little babies.  It seems like an important topic to discuss. Confused

In any case, since the infants are tainted by the "scourge" of sin, and God does not allow sin in His presence, then how can you maintain that the infants are saved?  Your argument that the claim is supported "based upon God's grace and mercy" is also a weak argument since the Old Testament records that God ordered on several occasions the extermination of literally thousands of babies belonging to the various nations surrounding Israel.  There was no mercy for those babies. 


Douggg: Regarding your false charge of Jesus being a racist, saying that he called the woman a dog, the woman was not offended as woud be in a racial slur because of the context of Jesus making a point in the terms of a parable....
"It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

The woman was not "offended" according to the authors of the text.  That is because they were trying to establish the Jews superiority over other races.  Let me be clear: I don't believe Jesus actually said that.  I think it is an example of heretics putting words in his mouth.

Douggg:
Jesus also greatly complimented her faith.   He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs." "Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table." Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Yes, because she "admitted" or "excepted" her inferior position.  In other words, Jesus basically expected her to assume a position of inferiority before he would help her.  Some mercy, huh? 

Douggg: Jesus in comparison to the animal kingdom even said of himself of his situation being less than that of the foxes and birds...Luke 9:58 And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.  

This is a false analogy again.  In the context the Gospels put dogs in, it is clear that it was meant as a derogatory term, when applied to people.  Case in point: Luke 16:20-23

20
At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[a] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.

From this touching story, we see the context of dogs.  They were associated with everything lowly and dirty.  So, when Jesus uses the word to refer to non-Jews, he used it in the context of them being below the Jews.  The Jews were the "masters" and the Gentiles were the "dogs".  Only when the woman excepted this role was she commended by Jesus.  This is racism, pure and simple.  And it corroborates everything I have said about the Bible and it's obsession with the superiority of the Jews. 

Douggg: Jesus also referred to the Jews as lost sheep, and the Pharisees as snakes, and Herod as a fox.  Jesus used comparisons to the animal kingdom.  It was not racism, which is founded on hatred of one race against another.   Jesus loves everyone.   And gave his life accordingly... as the Lamb of God. 

Referring to the Jews as "sheep" is not the same as referring to non-Jews as "dogs".  If he were not a racist, he would have used the same term for both.  If he were not a racist, he would have referred to the Jews as "lost dogs" or the Gentiles as "sheep" as well. 

Even in modern times, people use certain terms which I will not mention here because of their vulgarity, to refer to certain ethnic or racial groups.  They don't refer to themselves with those same terms because the terms have a certain derogatory connotation with regard to the people they apply to.  Therefore, your claim that the Biblical Jesus loves everyone is complete BS.  I guess we can call it DS also. LOL 




Edited by islamispeace - 20 July 2009 at 3:32pm
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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