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Whisper
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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2005 at 8:36am

Sorry, old chap don't flatter yourself by thinking that I would hate Americans. Yes, I do pity their recent sorry state.

Do you agree with free for all invasions and occupations? Let's be a bit brave and not hide behind Saddam and his regime while we are talking about the reality of American invasion and occupation.

Terrorism was fathered by American interference in the world. It was not just born on it's own. Only some convoluted mind would deflect attention from the real causes of terrorism.

The London Bombings are linked with Britain's participation of Iraq war.

I like you. You kick back at the slightest flow of words. I used to be almost the same when I was terribly young and inexperienced.

Tube bombs 'linked to Iraq conflict'

· Thinktank says war boosts al-Qaida
· Blair dismisses connection


David Hencke, Westminster correspondent
Monday July 18, 2005
The Guardian

Britain's involvement in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan contributed to the terrorist attacks in London, a respected independent thinktank on foreign affairs, the Chatham House organisation, says today.

According to the body, which includes leading academics and former civil servants among its members, the key problem in the UK for preventing terrorism is that the country is "riding as a pillion passenger with the United States in the war against terror".

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It says Britain's ability to carry out counter-terrorism measures has also been hampered because the US is always in the driving seat in deciding policy.

The report says the security services, diverted by fighting the IRA over Northern Ireland and the rise of animal activists committing terrorist acts, failed to give priority in the early 1990s to monitoring Islamist terror activists setting up in Britain, so "the British authorities did not fully appreciate the threat from al-Qaida".

In the most politically sensitive finding, Chatham House, which used to be known as the Royal Institute of International Affairs, concludes there is "no doubt" the invasion of Iraq has "given a boost to the al-Qaida network" in "propaganda, recruitment and fundraising", while providing an ideal targeting and training area for terrorists. "Riding pillion with a powerful ally has proved costly in terms of British and US military lives, Iraqi lives, military expenditure and the damage caused to the counter-terrorism campaign."

This finding runs counter to the line from Downing Street, which has sought to detach Iraq from the London attacks.

On Saturday, Tony Blair said the fanatics who struck in London and launched other attacks around the world were driven by an "evil ideology" rather than opposition to any policy, and that it would be a "misunderstanding of a catastrophic order" to think that if we changed our behaviour they would change theirs.

Amid the growing debate over proposed terror laws in Britain, the Tories will today offer Charles Clarke, the home secretary, the chance to speed up new laws, provided that the government delays until next year proposals to revise the control orders system for detaining suspect terrorists.

David Davis, the shadow home secretary, will ask the government to bring forward full details of one of the most divisive parts of the legislation - the indirect incitement to terrorism offence - by a month to September, so MPs and human rights groups such as Liberty can study them properly before the bill is published in October.

Mr Davis will make his offer during talks today with Mr Clarke, which will also be attended by Mark Oaten, the Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman. Lord Falconer, the lord chancellor, indicated yes terday that the government might be prepared to speed up anti-terror measures if it could reach agreement with the opposition parties. He told BBC Radio 4's Westminster Hour: "We should not rush into things because these things need careful thought. But if the opposition parties and the police can reach a consensus with us, then we can do it very quickly."

Azzam Tamimi of the Muslim Association of Britain told a rally in Russell Square, near the scene of the bus bombing, that the Muslim community would not suffer in silence for the crimes of the suicide bombers. "We will continue to talk, we will continue to write and we will continue to challenge the government. I say to Muslims, do not bow to pressure to keep accepting those pointing fingers at you.

"Say, 'No, I'm not responsible for what happened on July 7. My heart bleeds, I condemn it, yes, but I did not make those boys angry. I did not send those bombs to Iraq. I do not keep people locked in Guantánamo Bay and I do not have anything to do with Abu Ghraib, except to denounce it.' Politicians, see what you have done to this world?"

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Whisper
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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2005 at 8:54am

My friend, it will be vey difficult to fool the world at this stage however hard we try. The Guardian is one of the most respected serious British dailies. It's not run by or for the benefits of the Muslims.

It will also help you to read the "Harpers Magazine" compiled by a non-profit Foundation for the past 150 or so years? Far better than some of these sites of your source.

Two-thirds believe London bombings are linked to Iraq war

Labour losing battle to convince public

Julian Glover, political correspondent
Tuesday July 19, 2005
The Guardian

Two-thirds of Britons believe there is a link between Tony Blair's decision to invade Iraq and the London bombings despite government claims to the contrary, according to a Guardian/ICM poll published today.

The poll makes it clear that voters believe further attacks in Britain by suicide bombers are also inevitable, with 75% of those responding saying there will be more attacks.

The research suggests the government is losing the battle to persuade people that terrorist attacks on the UK have not been made more likely by the invasion of Iraq.

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According to the poll, 33% of Britons think the prime minister bears "a lot" of responsibility for the London bombings and a further 31% "a little".

Only 28% of voters agree with the government that Iraq and the London bombings are not connected.

The poll follows repeated efforts by the government to stress that al-Qaida attacks, including September 11, took place before, as well after, the invasion of Iraq.

Yesterday a government spokesman said the prime minister had told the cabinet that people who used Iraq to justify the London bombings had "a perverse view of Islam".

The foreign secretary, Jack Straw, dismissed a thinktank report which argued that there was a link between the invasion of Iraq and the bombings.

The report by Chatham House, formerly the Royal Institute of International Affairs, said: "There is no doubt that the situation over Iraq has imposed particular difficulties for the UK, and for the wider coalition against terrorism."

Mr Straw said in Brussels yesterday: "I'm astonished Chatham House is now saying that we should not have stood shoulder to shoulder with our long-standing allies."

"The terrorists have struck across the world, in countries allied with the US, backing the war in Iraq and in countries which had nothing whatever to do with the war in Iraq."

But the Guardian/ICM poll shows the public believe that Britain's frontline role has made the country a more obvious target. And it shows that while Britons have reacted relatively calmly to the attacks earlier this month - with 83% saying they were no less likely to travel into central London and 75% saying they were just as likely to use the tube - the public does want the government to respond with new legislation.

A clear majority - 71% - want the government to exclude or deport from the UK foreign Muslims who incite hatred with only 22% believing such people should be allowed to live in the UK.

That may give some comfort to ministers as they seek to persuade opposition parties to support new laws making it an offence to incite terrorism.

But the poll also shows that despite the attacks, there is increasingly limited public support for ID cards.

Only 53% of those questioned said they believed ID cards should be brought in to help in the fight against terrorism - a fall on previous findings before and after the bombings.

Reflecting the relative cross-party unity that has dominated politics since the attacks, the poll also finds that Labour's poll lead remains almost unchanged on last month's Guardian/ICM findings.

Despite public unease about the prime minister's decision to support the invasion of Iraq, Labour has the support of 39% of voters (up one point on last month), the Conservatives 31% (no change) and the Liberal Democrats 23% (no change).

· ICM interviewed a random sample of 1,005 adults aged 18+ by telephone between July 15 and 17. Interviews were conducted across the country and the results have been weighted to the profile of all adults. ICM is a member of the British Polling Council and abides by its rules.

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Quote Derukugi Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2005 at 10:18am
B95000:
Thanks for your input - what has caused you to be against the MNF liberation of Iraq, if, as you say, you were against Saddam's heinous regime?

I thought it would cause the place to implode, creating an even worse situation. (Actually, I expected it to become even worse than it is now).

But that was not the question I asked. I am still waiting for "Whisper" to tell me how he draws the line from Britains Iraq policy to murdering 50 commuters on the subway?
If these 4 people were that upset about policy, how about blowing up parliament? OK, that is difficult. So, how about go to Hyde Park and blow up themselves? That would certainly be statement. I simply do not see how murdering 50 people at random is justified by anything. (Nor murdering 200 in Iraq, as did another suicide bomber yesterday.)

---peace
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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2005 at 3:45pm

Derukigi, I am no one to draw any lines. I have never condoned any form of killings, be it in some street anywhere in the world by some persons or by the such noble MNF.

You are right, almost all the intelligence services had indicated that this fiction of Liberation would result in such a global mess.

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Quote b95000 Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2005 at 11:15pm
Sasha would have condemed the world and Iraq to more of Saddam's killing fields:
http://www.massgraves.info/

preferring them to the 'global mess.'  Saddam is gone, as is his WMD threat and that is a VERY GOOD thing.  Instead of placing blame squarely on Saddam and al Qaeda, where it belongs, you're going to somehow blame Bush, Blair, Berlusconi or Howard, or make the MNF as culpible for the death in Iraq and elsewhere in the ME, as say, brutal dictators.  Your condemnation of all killing is noble, but not realistic.  It's as if you're saying you condemn the Nazis and furthermore you condemn those killing the Nazis and damn those liberators who killed innocent Germans in the process as well...can't you see/understand these distinctions Sasha?
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
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Quote rocitreal Replybullet Posted: 21 July 2005 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by Whisper

The London Bombings are linked with Britain's participation of Iraq war.

There is always something extremists like to point to when doing insainly brutal illogical things.  What is your reasoning Bin Laden's start of a war against America starting in the 90's by his own words ?  if you want to relate to there illogical mental capacity please explain this one to me.

Peace, its more than a word its a dream.
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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2005 at 12:22am

The day you begin to see the truth in some balanced way and see what US has done in the world in these 50 or so years, I promise you, I will join you in beating the tracks of all those dictators (though they were placed and kept by London and Washington for their own interests).

Is that okay, Bruce?



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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2005 at 12:27am

There is always something extremists like to point to when doing insainly brutal illogical things.

Sorry, it's not the bombers' pointing to something. This is what the global analysts' and an independent RESPECTABLE BRITISH thinktank has concluded. I know, it's a bit hard to gulp, but the US has sown a mess across the globe for a while and since binning an ELECTED GOVERNMENT in Teheran - 1953 - just on the behest of Iranian American Oil Company.

The American presence in Iran produced Khomeni. Otherwise Iran was a kool spot known as the Paris of that area. Real kool!!



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