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ZamanH

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Posted: 15 July 2005 at 7:24am

Originally posted by Angel

Originally posted by Noah

We change the world by changing ourself,

that's true.

If you put all your hope of peace and justice on the tyrants and the murderers changing themselves, I don't agree with you. I will rather send them out of the world.

An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet

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ZamanH

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Posted: 15 July 2005 at 7:27am

By the way, I don't claim to be perfect, but I certainly don't accept that I am as bad as (or worse than) them.

Edited by ZamanH

An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet

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Angel

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Posted: 15 July 2005 at 8:08am

Originally posted by ZamanH

Originally posted by Angel

Originally posted by Noah

We change the world by changing ourself,

that's true.

If you put all your hope of peace and justice on the tyrants and the murderers changing themselves, I don't agree with you. I will rather send them out of the world.

I don't agree with it either what you said placing all hope and justice on the tyrants as you say, that's not changing yourself so you can change the world. While thoughts play a part it is thru action, changing oneself will change the world.

If you want change, a new world, then you need to change yourself, you don't put hope and whatever onto other people that is not changing, of that you have missed the meaning.

[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~

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Angel

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Posted: 15 July 2005 at 8:09am

Originally posted by ZamanH

By the way, I don't claim to be perfect, but I certainly don't accept that I am as bad as (or worse than) them.

Same here

[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~

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Angel

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Posted: 15 July 2005 at 8:11am

Originally posted by ZamanH

I consider the Western Europeans, Australians and Americans as the WEst (i.e their culture, history, politics etc). And Israelis too, I consider Israel more a western colony than a legimitate state.

I see.

[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~

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ZamanH

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Posted: 15 July 2005 at 8:33am

Originally posted by Angel

If you want change, a new world, then you need to change yourself

I don't understand how will that make those who make mischief stop from acting mischeiviously??

An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet

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b95000

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Posted: 15 July 2005 at 7:23pm

Originally posted by Angel

Originally posted by ZamanH

As Salaam Alaikum

Nearly 500 years back, people in the West rebelled against corrupt religious hierarchy and thought that they have rebelled against God and won. Now, they seem to pride themselves over their godlessness. Their advances in the field of science has removed the fear of God from their hearts and made them feel superior to Allah (subhan-Allah). No other group of people have oppressed the weak and poor people of the world as much as the Westerners and for as long as they are doing. They permit lechery and sodomy among themselves. Whether they admit it or not, they are exceedingly indulging in wine and women. Western "culture" is exceptionally antagonistic to Islam (and Muslims) compared to other cultures. Muslims have suffered so much because of them..... The writing on the wall is, there can be NO compromise between Islam and the West. Those "Muslims" who have adopted WEstern culture will have to decide soon about which side they are in - Islam or the West (this is not any kind of demand from me, its my anticipation/prediction).

A big assumption!

For heaven's sake, stop blaming the west.

Can you define the West?

re: ZamanH: To view history through one simple prism is rarely ever a true picture - whether that prism is a Western or Eastern perspective. To see nuances and understand more about human nature reveals a fuller picture of responsiblities. The West & the East are neither wholly good nor wholly bad.

Furthermore, to refuse to take responsibility for oneself, and instead be constantly blaming others, is a huge error in life, imho.

Edited by b95000

Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

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ZamanH

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Posted: 16 July 2005 at 10:48pm

To view history through on simple prism is rarely ever a true picture - whether that prism is a Western or Eastern perspective. To see nuances and understand more about human nature reveals a fuller picture of responsiblities. The West & the East are neither wholly good nor wholly bad.

Yes, I know. As I had said in other forum, I believe people in general are equally selfish everywhere. Westerners have got themselves to such situation that they depend on their prosperity on robbing others and to protect their interests they will probably side with robbers (that is reflected in the neo-con view of establishing an American century). Muslims on the other hand will have to fight the robbers to protect their interests.

Edited by ZamanH

An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet

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Author	Message
ZamanH Guest Group Account Suspended Joined: 21 July 2004 Location: India Online Status: Offline Posts: 448	Posted: 15 July 2005 at 7:24am
	*Originally posted by Angel* *Originally posted by Noah* We change the world by changing ourself, that's true. If you put all your hope of peace and justice on the tyrants and the murderers changing themselves, I don't agree with you. I will rather send them out of the world.
	An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend. There will be more women in hell than men. ..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191) Heaven lies under mother's feet
	IP Logged

ZamanH Guest Group Account Suspended Joined: 21 July 2004 Location: India Online Status: Offline Posts: 448	Posted: 15 July 2005 at 7:27am
	By the way, I don't claim to be perfect, but I certainly don't accept that I am as bad as (or worse than) them. Edited by ZamanH
	An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend. There will be more women in hell than men. ..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191) Heaven lies under mother's feet
	IP Logged

Angel Senior Member Joined: 03 July 2001 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6626	Posted: 15 July 2005 at 8:08am
	*Originally posted by ZamanH* *Originally posted by Angel* *Originally posted by Noah* We change the world by changing ourself, that's true. If you put all your hope of peace and justice on the tyrants and the murderers changing themselves, I don't agree with you. I will rather send them out of the world. I don't agree with it either what you said placing all hope and justice on the tyrants as you say, that's not changing yourself so you can change the world. While thoughts play a part it is thru action, changing oneself will change the world. If you want change, a new world, then you need to change yourself, you don't put hope and whatever onto other people that is not changing, of that you have missed the meaning.
	[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
	IP Logged

Angel Senior Member Joined: 03 July 2001 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6626	Posted: 15 July 2005 at 8:09am
	*Originally posted by ZamanH* By the way, I don't claim to be perfect, but I certainly don't accept that I am as bad as (or worse than) them. Same here
	[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Angel Senior Member Joined: 03 July 2001 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6626	Posted: 15 July 2005 at 8:11am
	*Originally posted by ZamanH* I consider the Western Europeans, Australians and Americans as the WEst (i.e their culture, history, politics etc). And Israelis too, I consider Israel more a western colony than a legimitate state. I see.
	[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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ZamanH Guest Group Account Suspended Joined: 21 July 2004 Location: India Online Status: Offline Posts: 448	Posted: 15 July 2005 at 8:33am
	*Originally posted by Angel* If you want change, a new world, then you need to change yourself I don't understand how will that make those who make mischief stop from acting mischeiviously??
	An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend. There will be more women in hell than men. ..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191) Heaven lies under mother's feet
	IP Logged

b95000 Senior Member Joined: 11 July 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1328	Posted: 15 July 2005 at 7:23pm
	*Originally posted by Angel* *Originally posted by ZamanH* As Salaam Alaikum Nearly 500 years back, people in the West rebelled against corrupt religious hierarchy and thought that they have rebelled against God and won. Now, they seem to pride themselves over their godlessness. Their advances in the field of science has removed the fear of God from their hearts and made them feel superior to Allah (subhan-Allah). No other group of people have oppressed the weak and poor people of the world as much as the Westerners and for as long as they are doing. They permit lechery and sodomy among themselves. Whether they admit it or not, they are exceedingly indulging in wine and women. Western "culture" is exceptionally antagonistic to Islam (and Muslims) compared to other cultures. Muslims have suffered so much because of them..... The writing on the wall is, there can be NO compromise between Islam and the West. Those "Muslims" who have adopted WEstern culture will have to decide soon about which side they are in - Islam or the West (this is not any kind of demand from me, its my anticipation/prediction). A big assumption! For heaven's sake, stop blaming the west. Can you define the West? re: ZamanH: To view history through one simple prism is rarely ever a true picture - whether that prism is a Western or Eastern perspective. To see nuances and understand more about human nature reveals a fuller picture of responsiblities. The West & the East are neither wholly good nor wholly bad. Furthermore, to refuse to take responsibility for oneself, and instead be constantly blaming others, is a huge error in life, imho. Edited by b95000
	Bruce Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
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ZamanH Guest Group Account Suspended Joined: 21 July 2004 Location: India Online Status: Offline Posts: 448	Posted: 16 July 2005 at 10:48pm
	To view history through on simple prism is rarely ever a true picture - whether that prism is a Western or Eastern perspective. To see nuances and understand more about human nature reveals a fuller picture of responsiblities. The West & the East are neither wholly good nor wholly bad. Yes, I know. As I had said in other forum, I believe people in general are equally selfish everywhere. Westerners have got themselves to such situation that they depend on their prosperity on robbing others and to protect their interests they will probably side with robbers (that is reflected in the neo-con view of establishing an American century). Muslims on the other hand will have to fight the robbers to protect their interests. Edited by ZamanH
	An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend. There will be more women in hell than men. ..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191) Heaven lies under mother's feet
	IP Logged

Topic: Muslims in the West
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