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believer
 
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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 07 June 2009 at 8:49am

Evil hearts try to see the Holy Bible filled with contradictions- an open heart sees that these supposed contradictions add fuller menaing or understanding tlo the message GOD is trying to give us.

Actually a very poor arguement for Muslims to be spouting that the Holy Bible has contradictions in it.
 
The Quran confirms the Gospel and Law which were in the Holy Bible that was in existance during Mohammad's time.


Edited by believer - 07 June 2009 at 8:49am
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Quote Mansoor_ali Replybullet Posted: 10 June 2009 at 10:57am

 Evil hearts try to see the Holy Bible filled with contradictions- an open heart sees that these supposed contradictions add fuller menaing or understanding tlo the message GOD is trying to give us.
Actually a very poor arguement for Muslims to be spouting that the Holy Bible has contradictions in it.

 Taken from 15 Clear Chronological Contradictions:

 
1:  In Matthew 4:5-8 the Devil took Jesus to the pinnacle and then to the mountain, while in Luke 4:5-9 he took him to the mountain and then the pinnacle.

2:  In Matt. 21:12-19 Jesus cleansed the temple and later cursed the fig tree, while in Mark 11:13-15 he cursed the fig tree and later cleansed the temple.

3:  In Matt. 8:28-32 Jesus caused devils to enter swine and later called Levi (Matt. 9:9), while in Luke 5:27-28 Jesus called Levi and later caused devils to enter swine (Luke 8:26-33).

4:  In Mark 1:12-13 Jesus was tempted in the wilderness and later John was arrested (Mark 6:17-18), while in Luke 3:19-20 John was arrested and later Jesus was tempted in the wilderness (Luke 4:1-13).

5:  In Mark 2:13-17 Matthew was called by Jesus and later the tempest was calmed (Mark 4:35-40), while in Matt. 8:18, 23-27 the tempest was calmed and later Matthew was called (Matt. 9:9-17).

6:  In Matt. 8:1-4 Jesus cleansed the leper and later healed Peter's mother-in-law (Matt. 8:14-15), while in Mark 1:29-31 Jesus healed Peter's mother-in-law and later cleansed the leper (Mark 1:40-44).

7:  In Matt. 8:28-32 Jesus caused devils to enter swine and later appointed the 12 apostles (Matt. 10:1-4), while in Mark 3:13-19 Jesus appointed the 12 apostles and later caused the devils to enter the swine (Mark 5:1-13).

8:  In Luke 3:19-20 John the Baptist was arrested and later Jesus healed Peter's mother-in-law (Luke 4:38-39), while in Mark 1:29-31 Jesus healed Peter's mother-in-law and later John was arrested (Mark 6:17-18).

9:  In Luke 3:19-20 John was arrested and later the storm was calmed (Luke 8:22-25), while in Mark 4:35-40 the storm was calmed and later John the Baptist was arrested (Mark 6:17-18).

10:  In Luke 5:27-32 Levi (Matthew) was called and later the storm was calmed (Luke 8:22-25), while in Matt. 8:18-27 the storm was calmed and later Levi was called (Matt. 9:9-17).

11:  In Matt. 8:14-15 Jesus cured Simon's mother-in-law and later John the Baptist was arrested (Matt. 14:3-5), while in Luke 3:19-20 John was arrested and later Jesus cured Simon's mother-in-law (Luke 4:38-39).

12: In Matthew 21:1-11 Jesus entered Jerusalem and later purified the Temple (Matthew 21:12-16), while in John 2:13-25 and 3:1-12 he purified the Temple and later entered Jerusalem (John 12:12-16).

13:  In Matt. 8:28-32 Jesus caused devils to enter swine and later paid tribute to John the Baptist (Matt. 11:11-14), while in Luke 7:24-28 Jesus paid tribute to John the Baptist and later caused devils to enter swine (Luke 8:26-33).

14:  In Luke 22:14-21 Jesus said after supper that the hand of his betrayer was with him on the table, while in Matt. 26:21 and Mark l4:18 Jesus made this statement during supper.

15:  And lastly, in Matt. 8:23-27 Jesus calmed the storm and later appointed the 12 apostles (Matt. 10:1-4), while in Mark 3:13-19 Jesus appointed the 12 apostles and later calmed the storm (Mark 4:35-41).


 The Quran confirms the Gospel and Law which were in the Holy Bible that was in existance during Mohammad's time.

 Visit:

 
Does Islam Endorse The Bible? By brother Bassam Zawadi
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 23 June 2009 at 4:20pm
Originally posted by Pati

Originally posted by honeto

Pati,
I have to disagree with you on that. Holy Book is the one that people are using to how they understand who God is, what God teaches and expects of us, what is our purpose and what will be herefter, how to achieve salvation.
Those are very very important questions and issues. We find a discrepency in our credit card statement we pickup the phone. Are we not sure what's at stake that we take our Holy book less serious? or we jsut don't believe rahter pretend we do?
It is a guide that will determine your course, your journey, your future. Sure it also gives us strength in our difficulties, but its not like pot of a drink to forget you your pains when you are tired or feeling down.
Hasan
 
Yes, it's important what you say, but on the other hand, can you take a two thousand years book as your daily guide? Sure in some items, you should follow your Holly Book, but in some others, it's unfortunately outdated.
It's important to know your God through the Holly Book, in my case the Bible, which explains everything about the Christianity, but at the same time, we have to understand it and to relate it with the XXI Century, where we live.
 
For instance, you have the divorce, which is forbiden (in general) in both religions, Islam and Christianity, but unfortunately, the real life now is full of situations that are finishing in divorce. Really, it's hard to take that decision, but some situations are not giving other chance.
Regards,
Patricia
 
 
Pati,
I agree with you about things getting outdated. But that's the case with what we the humans write and know. Our knowledge is limited and improves with time thus gets out dated through trial and error. Its the human made teaching and rules that has been proved to get out dated. We knew free sex means adultry, but some took that route and learned its results in the form of aids and social ills. 
Not long ago it was thought in this country (USA) that woman should not have the right to vote. Or that blacks should not have the same rights as whites. Or legal age to marry was 13 or 16 in some states at one time but now has become illegal. These are just some of the examples to show that you are right, if a human is behind some rules and regulations, you bet they will be outdated at a point.
What we are talking about is that God who is All Knowing is the one who is the author of those rules and regulations given in the Quran, and were given before through other prophets. God given rules and guidance is not bound to time. For example: We always will have the same One and only God, our Creator. To worship and serve Him will always be the same. And by the way, its not one human you, me or Pheroah that will live the entire length of humanity's life on this earth. Each one of us only live between the day we are born till the day we die. How long is that? Say around a hundred years to the most, and that's it.  God's guidance is for all times and for all the people.
Another example is that stealing or adultry was bad and forbidden, and in God's sight and teachings for us it will be so without  the limit of time.
 
Remember, our maker has given us this body in a trust, has provided us guidance to how to take proper care of it so when He takes if back, through our intentions and actions we could prove that we did our best effort to care for it as He wanted us to and fulfilled that trust thus winning our reward as an eternal life in a desireable place we all wish to be. 
He has provided us the capabilities, intelligence, and the guidance to achieve what is expected of us, and only after that we will be held responsible for what we choose to do.
 
Its interesting you brought up the subject of divorce. I wanted to correct you on that.
Divorce in Christianity is forbidden except in case of immorality. In Islam it is not forbidden, only it must be taken seriously and is permitted only as a last resort after trying three times to save it.
 
In fact this is a very good point where my Chrisitian friends have nothing to say when I ask them the same question. What if the guy abuse his wife all along? or what if he is impotent? while she desires a family with children. What right she has in that case to pursue her dream?
Islam is a complete way of life inwhich God has guided us and shown us all important issues and provided their solutions like the one above, where a Muslim woman can seek and get divorced if she is being abused and so on.
 
I would strongly recommend you to get a copy of the Quran and read and study it start to finish, before you think or say anything about it. Please let me know if you are unable to get one, I will send you one.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 23 June 2009 at 4:38pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Pati Replybullet Posted: 24 June 2009 at 11:38am
Originally posted by honeto

 
[...]
 
In fact this is a very good point where my Chrisitian friends have nothing to say when I ask them the same question. What if the guy abuse his wife all along? or what if he is impotent? while she desires a family with children. What right she has in that case to pursue her dream?
Islam is a complete way of life inwhich God has guided us and shown us all important issues and provided their solutions like the one above, where a Muslim woman can seek and get divorced if she is being abused and so on.
 
I would strongly recommend you to get a copy of the Quran and read and study it start to finish, before you think or say anything about it. Please let me know if you are unable to get one, I will send you one.
Hasan
 
 
Hi Hasan,
 
I cannot understand why your Christian friends didn't answer you this question, because it's very easy. The abused wife has all the rights to ask for the divorce, as well as the wife who's husband is impotent, as well as the wife who is not happy with her husband. The only problem is that to get the religious divorce, the procedure goes too slowly, because they want the marriage to think about it seriously, and it's expensive also, because it can only be signed by Vatican and some Religious Courts (for instance, in Spain there is only one for the whole country).
 
Another reason to finish the marriage is the misunderstanding between the couple, as well as the end of the love, which are given in most of the divorce requests. I hope this can explain your question. I don't know if in Islam those reasons are given also to ask for divorce or not...
 
Thanks for offering me a Qu'ran, I already have mine Wink (and God/Allah thanks, in Spanish!). I didn't start reading it yet, because in the Mosque (where I'm going weekly to learn arabic), they are giving us classes about Islam, and I prefer to read the Qu'ran at the same time in order to understand it in better way.
 
I agree with most of what you said, but I want to remark something: we are human, and unfortunately, not perfect. What makes the difference between animals and people is the common sense (or at least, it's supposed that there is a difference between), and the quality of being directed by our head and heart instead of our first feelings or primary needs.
 
If I read the Bible, I understand what is the meaning of all the words, and what is the essence of God's Commandements... but also I know that my feelings and needs are sometimes differents. Sure it doesn't mean that I am an animal, it's just that in this new world, it's not possible to follow the Bible word by word, or it's very difficult to be happy following strictly the Bible.
 
At the same time, we are growing individual and colectivelly, and as well as we grow as people, we grow as society too... But what we do is just to be more opened and to expressing publicly what in old times they were doing in private. Is it good or bad? Everyone should be owner of his/her decisions and thinking. For me, we overstepped the limits, and we are lost in some ways, but at the same time, I believe that this will be stabilized soon (maybe in the next generation, maybe in the one after the next...).
 
My personal opinion is that in the Judgement Day (what I think you have in Islam too), I will explain every wrong step gave in my life, and hopefully my good acts will be more than my bads (God help me). But this is not an excuse to do whatever we want, sure... I repeat: we are not animals, or we should not be.
 
Patricia
No God wants the killing, but the peace.
The weapons are carried by people, not by religions.
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 27 June 2009 at 6:44pm
Originally posted by Pati

Originally posted by honeto

 
[...]
 
In fact this is a very good point where my Chrisitian friends have nothing to say when I ask them the same question. What if the guy abuse his wife all along? or what if he is impotent? while she desires a family with children. What right she has in that case to pursue her dream?
Islam is a complete way of life inwhich God has guided us and shown us all important issues and provided their solutions like the one above, where a Muslim woman can seek and get divorced if she is being abused and so on.
 
I would strongly recommend you to get a copy of the Quran and read and study it start to finish, before you think or say anything about it. Please let me know if you are unable to get one, I will send you one.
Hasan
 
 
Hi Hasan,
 
I cannot understand why your Christian friends didn't answer you this question, because it's very easy. The abused wife has all the rights to ask for the divorce, as well as the wife who's husband is impotent, as well as the wife who is not happy with her husband. The only problem is that to get the religious divorce, the procedure goes too slowly, because they want the marriage to think about it seriously, and it's expensive also, because it can only be signed by Vatican and some Religious Courts (for instance, in Spain there is only one for the whole country).
 
Another reason to finish the marriage is the misunderstanding between the couple, as well as the end of the love, which are given in most of the divorce requests. I hope this can explain your question. I don't know if in Islam those reasons are given also to ask for divorce or not...
 
Thanks for offering me a Qu'ran, I already have mine Wink (and God/Allah thanks, in Spanish!). I didn't start reading it yet, because in the Mosque (where I'm going weekly to learn arabic), they are giving us classes about Islam, and I prefer to read the Qu'ran at the same time in order to understand it in better way.
 
I agree with most of what you said, but I want to remark something: we are human, and unfortunately, not perfect. What makes the difference between animals and people is the common sense (or at least, it's supposed that there is a difference between), and the quality of being directed by our head and heart instead of our first feelings or primary needs.
 
If I read the Bible, I understand what is the meaning of all the words, and what is the essence of God's Commandements... but also I know that my feelings and needs are sometimes differents. Sure it doesn't mean that I am an animal, it's just that in this new world, it's not possible to follow the Bible word by word, or it's very difficult to be happy following strictly the Bible.
 
At the same time, we are growing individual and colectivelly, and as well as we grow as people, we grow as society too... But what we do is just to be more opened and to expressing publicly what in old times they were doing in private. Is it good or bad? Everyone should be owner of his/her decisions and thinking. For me, we overstepped the limits, and we are lost in some ways, but at the same time, I believe that this will be stabilized soon (maybe in the next generation, maybe in the one after the next...).
 
My personal opinion is that in the Judgement Day (what I think you have in Islam too), I will explain every wrong step gave in my life, and hopefully my good acts will be more than my bads (God help me). But this is not an excuse to do whatever we want, sure... I repeat: we are not animals, or we should not be.
 
Patricia
 
 
Hi Patricia,
what I meant was that the Bible as a guide does not offer divorce as an option for a wife in possible cases we talked about. Only time it allow divorce is in case of adultry. It is only secular laws that allowed her that right in the West.
I agree with you that we are not perfect, if we were we would not be told that we will be judged. And the reason we will be held accountable for our thoughts and actions is only after we are given capabilites of distinguishing between right and wrong. And with guidance and a chance provided by our Creator something no other creature is given. Thus according to the Quran, we were created above rest of the Creation.
 
My understanding is that God wants us to align ourselves to His teachings, not that we align his teachings to our style. If the latter was the case, we would be our own guides and no need for God. Also we wouldn't know where'd be the limits and what'd be the end!
 
Hasan
 


Edited by honeto - 27 June 2009 at 6:47pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Akhe Abdullah Replybullet Posted: 01 July 2009 at 5:05pm
Originally posted by Pati



For instance, you have the divorce, which is forbiden (in general) in both religions, Islam and Christianity,
Who says that it is forbidden in Islam,more like frowned upon.Do you know that there are Ayat's(verses)in the Holy Qur'an that tells us how to go about a divorce, marriage also reconciliation.Iqra
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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 08 July 2009 at 1:45pm
A contradiction is saying that something did not happen, not that it happened at a different time.
 
Why would there be 4 Gospels in the Holy Bible  that are all slightly different?
 
I mean really wouldn't you burn the ones that did not match up exactly- even if it was GOD's word?
 
Could the people claiming these Gospels as GOD's Word not see that there were sight differences?
 
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 08 July 2009 at 1:46pm
Divorce- that is why we need Jesus.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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