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honeto

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Posted: 13 April 2009 at 4:11pm

Those of us who believe in accountability and God as overseer of all affairs will continue to strive for the truth. We have the hope of that day, when all will be justly dealt. What hope they have that decieve themselves when they try to decieve others?

Hasan

Edited by honeto - 13 April 2009 at 4:12pm

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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believer

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Posted: 13 April 2009 at 4:39pm

Exactly honeto.

I don't see the difference between the marriage of an 8 year old to a 47 year old and the rape of the 9 year old by her stepfather.

Gulliver mentioned the double standard and I was simply backing this up with fact.

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

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Akhe Abdullah
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Posted: 13 April 2009 at 6:10pm

Originally posted by Gulliver

Do they love them all, or is it more about the sex lives of the men ? Be very hard to love four people

Salams, Gulliver.It is possible to love more than one. Love is not limited to just one,though it can be hard I know first hand Two wives, even one is hard.(LoL) Gulliver The Qur'an says marry two, three or four but one is best.You may not love them equally but you still love them both the same( get it)You still have two be able to support them both equally thats love isnt it?If you ask your parents(or your children) ask if you have more love for one of your sibblings (or children) than the other,what would they say?

Edited by Akhe Abdullah - 13 April 2009 at 6:11pm

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Nur_Ilahi

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Posted: 14 April 2009 at 6:42am

Originally posted by honeto

Those of us who believe in accountability and God as overseer of all affairs will continue to strive for the truth. We have the hope of that day, when all will be justly dealt. What hope they have that decieve themselves when they try to decieve others?

Hasan

Assalamualaika Hasan,

You are so right.

We can deceive others, but we cannot deceive ourselves. The Truth is within ourselves and the more we struggle with the truth, the more peace will evade us.

Only by accepting the Truth, then our Pure Soul will be back to the Fitrah and be at Peace because it had found its Home.

Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.

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Nur_Ilahi

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Posted: 14 April 2009 at 6:45am

Gulliver wrote -
<>

It is about power, most of it for sure - and controlling people by abusing that power.

The problem with Christianity is having hierarchy in their institutions. The power given by man themselves not God Almighty.

Our piety and humility only God knows because He is Al-Aleem - Most Knowing. In Islam a person with highest taqwa (humility in piety) is what matters to God.

Gulliver I did not say that people cannot share intimacy or have sexual relations with those they love. That is against nature. if it is in accordance with nature by all means. What is against nature is to prey on innocent defenceless children. Or having it with other than your one's spouse. Or doing it within the same sex.

Here I quote from this link - http://www.islamawareness.net/Polygamy/why.html

"4. Qur'an permits limited polygyny As I mentioned earlier, Qur'an is the only religious book on the face of the earth that says 'marry only one'. The context of this phrase is the following verse from Surah Nisa of the Glorious Qur'an: 'Marry woman of your choice in twos' threes' or fours' but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly, (with them), then only one' [Al-Qur'an 4:3]

Before the Qur'an was revealed, there was no upper limit for polygyny and many men had scores of wives, some even hundreds. Islam put an upper limit of four wives. Islam gives a man permission to marry two, three or four women, only on the condition that he deals with them justly. In the same chapter i.e. Surah Nisa verse 129 says: 'It is very difficult to be just and fair between women'. [Al-Qur'an (4:129)]

Therefore polygyny is not a rule but an exception. Many people are under the misconception that it is compulsory for a Muslim man to marry more than one wife."

You need to learn more about Christianity Nur, fore you try and make the kinds of generalised claims you do. You only make yourself sound foolish and I was beginning to believe you knew what you were talking about.

I do not know that one needs to be so very intelligent in order to know that there are paedophiles in the Church?

Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.

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Pati
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Posted: 14 April 2009 at 1:42pm

Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi

Gulliver wrote -
<>

I do not know that one needs to be so very intelligent in order to know that there are paedophiles in the Church?

I'm sorry, but there are paedophiles everywhere, it's not matter of religion. Even in your religion, there are terrible histories about family rapes, or iman's abuses, so please, don't mix the discussion. I could talk about how many Spanish women were raped by muslims in their own houses, some of them over 80 years!! But they were not muslims, they were just criminals!

Please, make the difference between the sick people (I don't care if they are pastors or not, they are sick and dangerous) and the religion and it's meanings.

By my side, I'm part of the Catholic Church, in which the pastors are not allowed to get married or to have relation, because they make a comittement where they accept that situation. They give their lives to God as well as the people who may ask them for help (no matter who). If they where married, their priority would be their family, and in this way, the priorioty is just to follow God's Word and to help everyone.

What I see is that there is no interest here in finding something common to both religions, but just to tell the worst things of the other one, and it's really sad, because we have the necessary knowledge to grow with the other's words. I fell sorry for that.

Best regards

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hat2010

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Posted: 14 April 2009 at 5:28pm

-

Edited by Jamal Morelli - 30 October 2009 at 8:47am

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Chrysalis

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Posted: 15 April 2009 at 6:25am

Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt

I assume this is because most people, whatever their belief, would find it extremely rude to walk into someone's home and barrage them with highly offensive remarks, disguised as queries, regarding their religion. Nor would most normal people accost one on the street and do the same.

As I read the the various topics posted on the forum and the subsequent posts I am often amused and sometimes amazed at how indignant non-Muslims become when we respond to their posts in kind.

Topics such as "Sad", "Shariah Law?", "Not Necessarily Domestic Violence", and "Pray for the future women of the world", "Islam a religion of love?", and "Reason why there are no homosexuals in Islam", etc... are openly insulting and posted in an attempt to protray Muslims and Islam in as bad a light as possible. These topics are eagerly jumped upon and made a "cause concern" by most non-Muslims on this forum, and there seems to be no sensitivity to the fact that the Muslims posting here might find this offensive.

However, let someone post a topic such as this one, even if done as an example, and we are immediately accused of double standards and hypocrisy.

While I suppose it was perfectly acceptible to post about Muslims raping children to force conversion, it is not quite so acceptible to post about priests raping children because they could do so with impunity. The difference here is that this is one topic, not one of hundreds.

I guess it is not so very pleasant having a glaring spotlight thrust upon something that has absolutely nothing to do with your religion or your personal belief system yet was perpetrated by those who claim to share the same faith so it is suddenly part of YOUR RELIGION, and you are personally responsible for answering to it or explaining why.

I believe this forum was created for the purpose of exchanging ideas, peaceful interaction, the sharing of culture and beliefs. It has instead become a place where we, the hosts, are under constant sniper attack and are accused of being unhospitable and not "being Muslim" when we shoot back. Well, every once in a while it's nice to take the target off of your own back...

Nicely put. My sentiments exactly.

On a seperate note,
What if we replied to each 'Believer' in the same manner? That would make things so much interesting. What happened to the Christian teachings of turning the other cheek? (referring to Believer's CNN article). Or does 'your' church have a different take on that?

"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."

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Author	Message
honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 13 April 2009 at 4:11pm
	Those of us who believe in accountability and God as overseer of all affairs will continue to strive for the truth. We have the hope of that day, when all will be justly dealt. What hope they have that decieve themselves when they try to decieve others? Hasan Edited by honeto - 13 April 2009 at 4:12pm
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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believer Guest Group Joined: 08 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1397	Posted: 13 April 2009 at 4:39pm
	Exactly honeto. I don't see the difference between the marriage of an 8 year old to a 47 year old and the rape of the 9 year old by her stepfather. Gulliver mentioned the double standard and I was simply backing this up with fact.
	John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
	IP Logged

Akhe Abdullah Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 19 November 2008 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1252	Posted: 13 April 2009 at 6:10pm
	*Originally posted by Gulliver* Do they love them all, or is it more about the sex lives of the men ? Be very hard to love four people Salams, Gulliver.It is possible to love more than one. Love is not limited to just one,though it can be hard I know first hand Two wives, even one is hard.(LoL) Gulliver The Qur'an says marry two, three or four but one is best.You may not love them equally but you still love them both the same( get it)You still have two be able to support them both equally thats love isnt it?If you ask your parents(or your children) ask if you have more love for one of your sibblings (or children) than the other,what would they say? Edited by Akhe Abdullah - 13 April 2009 at 6:11pm
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Nur_Ilahi Senior Member Joined: 19 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1031	Posted: 14 April 2009 at 6:42am
	*Originally posted by honeto* Those of us who believe in accountability and God as overseer of all affairs will continue to strive for the truth. We have the hope of that day, when all will be justly dealt. What hope they have that decieve themselves when they try to decieve others? Hasan Assalamualaika Hasan, You are so right. We can deceive others, but we cannot deceive ourselves. The Truth is within ourselves and the more we struggle with the truth, the more peace will evade us. Only by accepting the Truth, then our Pure Soul will be back to the Fitrah and be at Peace because it had found its Home.
	Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
	IP Logged

Nur_Ilahi Senior Member Joined: 19 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1031	Posted: 14 April 2009 at 6:45am
	Gulliver wrote - <> It is about power, most of it for sure - and controlling people by abusing that power. The problem with Christianity is having hierarchy in their institutions. The power given by man themselves not God Almighty. Our piety and humility only God knows because He is Al-Aleem - Most Knowing. In Islam a person with highest taqwa (humility in piety) is what matters to God. Gulliver I did not say that people cannot share intimacy or have sexual relations with those they love. That is against nature. if it is in accordance with nature by all means. What is against nature is to prey on innocent defenceless children. Or having it with other than your one's spouse. Or doing it within the same sex. Here I quote from this link - http://www.islamawareness.net/Polygamy/why.html "4. Qur'an permits limited polygyny As I mentioned earlier, Qur'an is the only religious book on the face of the earth that says 'marry only one'. The context of this phrase is the following verse from Surah Nisa of the Glorious Qur'an: 'Marry woman of your choice in twos' threes' or fours' but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly, (with them), then only one' [Al-Qur'an 4:3] Before the Qur'an was revealed, there was no upper limit for polygyny and many men had scores of wives, some even hundreds. Islam put an upper limit of four wives. Islam gives a man permission to marry two, three or four women, only on the condition that he deals with them justly. In the same chapter i.e. Surah Nisa verse 129 says: 'It is very difficult to be just and fair between women'. [Al-Qur'an (4:129)] Therefore polygyny is not a rule but an exception. Many people are under the misconception that it is compulsory for a Muslim man to marry more than one wife." You need to learn more about Christianity Nur, fore you try and make the kinds of generalised claims you do. You only make yourself sound foolish and I was beginning to believe you knew what you were talking about. I do not know that one needs to be so very intelligent in order to know that there are paedophiles in the Church?
	Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Pati Female Christian Senior Member Joined: 10 April 2009 Location: Spain Online Status: Offline Posts: 305	Posted: 14 April 2009 at 1:42pm
	*Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi* Gulliver wrote - <> I do not know that one needs to be so very intelligent in order to know that there are paedophiles in the Church? I'm sorry, but there are paedophiles everywhere, it's not matter of religion. Even in your religion, there are terrible histories about family rapes, or iman's abuses, so please, don't mix the discussion. I could talk about how many Spanish women were raped by muslims in their own houses, some of them over 80 years!! But they were not muslims, they were just criminals! Please, make the difference between the sick people (I don't care if they are pastors or not, they are sick and dangerous) and the religion and it's meanings. By my side, I'm part of the Catholic Church, in which the pastors are not allowed to get married or to have relation, because they make a comittement where they accept that situation. They give their lives to God as well as the people who may ask them for help (no matter who). If they where married, their priority would be their family, and in this way, the priorioty is just to follow God's Word and to help everyone. What I see is that there is no interest here in finding something common to both religions, but just to tell the worst things of the other one, and it's really sad, because we have the necessary knowledge to grow with the other's words. I fell sorry for that. Best regards
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hat2010 Senior Member Joined: 10 October 2006 Location: Neutral Zone Online Status: Offline Posts: 562	Posted: 14 April 2009 at 5:28pm
	- Edited by Jamal Morelli - 30 October 2009 at 8:47am
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Chrysalis Senior Member Joined: 25 November 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2031	Posted: 15 April 2009 at 6:25am
	*Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt* I assume this is because most people, whatever their belief, would find it extremely rude to walk into someone's home and barrage them with highly offensive remarks, disguised as queries, regarding their religion. Nor would most normal people accost one on the street and do the same. As I read the the various topics posted on the forum and the subsequent posts I am often amused and sometimes amazed at how indignant non-Muslims become when we respond to their posts in kind. Topics such as "Sad", "Shariah Law?", "Not Necessarily Domestic Violence", and "Pray for the future women of the world", "Islam a religion of love?", and "Reason why there are no homosexuals in Islam", etc... are openly insulting and posted in an attempt to protray Muslims and Islam in as bad a light as possible. These topics are eagerly jumped upon and made a "cause concern" by most non-Muslims on this forum, and there seems to be no sensitivity to the fact that the Muslims posting here might find this offensive. However, let someone post a topic such as this one, even if done as an example, and we are immediately accused of double standards and hypocrisy. While I suppose it was perfectly acceptible to post about Muslims raping children to force conversion, it is not quite so acceptible to post about priests raping children because they could do so with impunity. The difference here is that this is one topic, not one of hundreds. I guess it is not so very pleasant having a glaring spotlight thrust upon something that has absolutely nothing to do with your religion or your personal belief system yet was perpetrated by those who claim to share the same faith so it is suddenly part of YOUR RELIGION, and you are personally responsible for answering to it or explaining why. I believe this forum was created for the purpose of exchanging ideas, peaceful interaction, the sharing of culture and beliefs. It has instead become a place where we, the hosts, are under constant sniper attack and are accused of being unhospitable and not "being Muslim" when we shoot back. Well, every once in a while it's nice to take the target off of your own back... Nicely put. My sentiments exactly. On a seperate note, What if we replied to each 'Believer' in the same manner? That would make things so much interesting. What happened to the Christian teachings of turning the other cheek? (referring to Believer's CNN article). Or does 'your' church have a different take on that?
	"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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