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Saladin
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Quote Saladin Replybullet Posted: 05 April 2009 at 9:00pm
"Do not write down anything of me except the Quran. Whoever writes other than that should delete it" (Ahmed, Vol. 1, page 171...also Sahih Muslim)


I'm impressed by your devotion to this Hadith. You see bro, I like to get enlightened too. So will you tell me, from where in the Quran the info in this hadith can be extracted?

Oh! I'm also ignorant of any hadith that supports ignorance as fard.


'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'
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savant
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Quote savant Replybullet Posted: 05 April 2009 at 9:41pm

May Allah bless those who are de-railed or strayed; Quran only people are great FITNA; my worries and prayers for their Imaan.

In essence, “Hadith” refers to an act done, word spoken or a confirmation given by Rasulullah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam). “Hadith” has been accepted as a source of Islamic law, after the Quran. Its status has remained undisputed throughout the centuries aside from some individuals who have separated themselves from the mainstream of the Muslim population. Its authority is evident from the Quran. The Quran repeatedly reminds the believers to follow Rasulullah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam).

In order to fulfill the injunctions of the Quran, one is required to accept the authority Hadith. If one denies the authority of Hadith, it is impossible for him to fulfill and carry out the injunctions of the Quran, for example, we are commanded in the Quran to perform salat. But the Quran does not explain the methodology of salat. The Hadith explains to us the methodology of salat. If one had to rely simply on following the Quran, and not the hadith, he would not know the methodology of salat. Therefore, we are required to follow both, the Quran and Hadith. The Sahaba, Tabi’een and all the pious predecessors were staunch follows of Rasulullah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam)     

Hereunder are a few verses proving the authority of Hadith:

 

وَأَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَالرَّسُولَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُرْحَمُونَ

“And obey Allah and the Messenger so that you may be shown mercy” (3:132)

 

وَمَنْ يُطِعِ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ يُدْخِلْهُ جَنَّاتٍ تَجْرِي مِنْ تَحْتِهَا الْأَنْهَارُ

“And whoever obeys Allah and his messenger, Allah shall admit him in the gardens underneath which rivers flow” (4:13)

                                                                                 

وَمَنْ يَعْصِ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ فَقَدْ ضَلَّ ضَلَالًا مُبِينًا

“And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has gone astray into manifest error” (33:36) 

The Muhadditheen (experts in Hadith) have dedicated their lives in the various sciences of Hadith in order to preserve the authenticity of Ahadith. May read more on the subject matter from a book “Authority of Sunnah” by Mufti Taqi Uthmani Saheb.
 

There are only two alternatives for those who negate Hadith: they should deny transmission and narration out and out and openly deny the Qur`aan along with the Hadith, but if they believe in the narration of the Qur`aan, then they must admit the narration of the Hadith as well in view of their having admitted narration as a verity. They cannot accept the Qur`aan and negate the Hadith, otherwise, they would be considered deniers of the narrative itself.

Further consideration would amply show that the proof for continuous narrative does not rest merely upon the fact of continuity of narration of the Qur`aan but it is provided by the proof of the Qur`aan itself. It is not necessary that its proof should be sought in the continuous narration of the Qur`aan alone, since once the Qur`aan is admitted as gospel truth, the question naturally arises, how did we come to know it from the Qur`aan which has not been proved as such, then how can it provide proof for anything else? This is called 'presuming a thing before it comes into existence', a sort of posteriori approach. Thus, we can know it is the self-same Qur`aan through an extraneous source, and what else can this source be but the reports regarding the holy Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) which were recorded and have reached us intact? This is what is called the Hadith. Therefore, proving that the Qur`aan is verily the Qur`aan depends upon the Hadith.

Considered this way, could it be possible that the acknowledgement of the Qur`aan should be made imperative but not that of the Hadith? If this is so, then it would not be possible to prove and establish the very existence of the Qur`aan.

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Akhe Abdullah
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Quote Akhe Abdullah Replybullet Posted: 07 April 2009 at 4:31am
As Salamu Alaikum, Brother Savant. Jazakallah Kheiran for your reply. Ajabanee Haqqan!
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Quote Chrysalis Replybullet Posted: 07 April 2009 at 8:10am
Saladin makes an interesting observation . . . why is it Bro Nu001 - that on one hand you shun ahadith and consider them incorrect/unauthentic - yet on the other hand, you use Ahmed's hadith to stress your own point? It appears that ahadith are ok, as long as they fit your argument and point of view? Either you believe in ahadith - or you dont?
 
Secondly - you asked for Sahih references, and you were provided Sahih references. Muslim is sahih too. . . and this was just a quick search on google, I am sure that you can find many more on the subject.
 
The Qur'an is also a form of Ahadith - it was related by Prophet Muhammad to the sahabah, who passed it on to us. Same with Ahadith! If you trust ppl to pass something as important as teh Qur'an, surely you trust them to pass down Ahadith to us with teh same diligence and trust?
 
As for saying that the Sahabah did not have/use (or something like that) hadith - and they were made up 200yrs later - is wrong. The ahadith were taken FROM teh sahabah. Which is why you will see the sahaba's name in the narration chain! You can diligently trace who reported what from whom! Theres a whole 'scientific process' (if u wanna call it that) behind it!!!! Bukhari and Muslim simply COMPILED the ahadith in book form, sorted them into chapters, according to subjects, weeded out the weak ones i.e. those that they could not find adequate trace/reference for. They didnt include even a single hadith that had a weak narration.
 
The Sahabah - yes, even the 4 Caliphs - used ahadith for reference at that time. Only diff is that at the time, they were oral traditions. Whenever a member of the public wanted to make a point, point out an error - they would quote ahadith to back up thier claim.
 
You believe History books dont you? Where do you think History books got thier material? It was handed down generations, by reliable ppl. Yet, the same Muslims have a problem believing in the authencity of Ahadith, that work somewhat on teh same principle, if not more thorough and detailed and recorded. When historians may/may not be biased/have vested interests . . . . . although ppl like Bukhari did not - they had nothing material to gain.
 
Having no hadith means we dont know our Prophet. We wouldnt know how he behaved, what he liked, disliked, what was his ettiquette, how he smiled, walked . . . .his opinions - his character. How would a Muslim today know all that he/she knows about the Prophet, his wives, correct behaviour - if you exclude ahadith?
 
Hadith tells us things/details about how to eat, sleep, conduct Nikah, Pay Zakat, Ushr etc, Perform Hajj, Fast, which days to fast, which days not to fast, how to break fast, how to do Suhr, what times to pray at, what things break wudhu, which do not, conjugal rights, Hijab, etc etc. . . . and ofcourse beards.
 
If I were to come up with a figure, I would say hat 70% of our deen's practise and knowledge is based on ahadith.
 
You know how ppl say we are supposed to follow Sunnah? How would you know what sunnah is if you reject hadith?
 
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Chrysalis
 
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Quote Chrysalis Replybullet Posted: 07 April 2009 at 8:15am
Not to mention beards make men look dignified & handsome. . .
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Quote savant Replybullet Posted: 07 April 2009 at 11:38am

It is always suggested from religious scholars that interpret Quran and Hadith under someone’s guidance only; Just translations may leads some to wrong. Just see below about this Hadith that what was the purpose but unfortunately what he extracted. In world things we don’t do this; we never try to prescribe our patients ourselves. We never try to architect our buildings ourselves; but when it comes to religion i am sorry to say “we all are muftis”

Here is the skilled response to Hadith.

Question

In regards to the following saying of the holy prophet s.a.w: "do not write down anything of me except the Quran. whoever writes down other then that should delete it". (Ahmed, vol.1, pg171...also sahih muslim),

I would like to know the context in which the prophet s.a.w made this statement and is this a justification for saying that the ahadith of the prophet s.a.w are not a part of deen?

Answer

It is due to total ignorance and desire to follow one’s Nafs that would drive a man to reaching such a conclusion that the Mubaarak Ahaadith of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] are not part of Deen. The reason for the prohibition found in the above Hadith is that this was said by our beloved Nabi [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] in the earlier days of Islam where the noble Qur’aan were written on many different things and were kept by many people. The Sahaaba [radhiallaahu anhu] at this time had not had that amount of experience with the Qur’aan to understand the style of its Aayaats.

For the above reason, there was a possibility that if the Ahaadith of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] had to be written down, the Sahaaba [radhiallaahu anhu] would accidentally regard the Ahaadith of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] as part of the Qur’aan. Once the Sahaaba got used to the style of the Qur’aan and could distinguish between the Qur’aan and Ahaadith merely by reading them once. Nabi [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] had permitted them to write down his Ahaadith. Imaam al-Tirmidhi [ra] had compiled a whole chapter of Ahaadith in his famous Tirmidhi in the section ‘Kitaabul Ilm’ regarding the permissibility of writing the Ahaadith of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam]. (Darse-Tirmidhi vol.1 pg.36)

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai

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Akhe Abdullah
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Quote Akhe Abdullah Replybullet Posted: 07 April 2009 at 7:49pm
Originally posted by Chrysalis

Not to mention beards make men look dignified & handsome. . .
Shukran
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Chrysalis
 
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Quote Chrysalis Replybullet Posted: 08 April 2009 at 8:40am

Smile

Bro Savant, Jazakallah for sharing that bit of info about the hadith....
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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