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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: MUHAMMAD & QURAN FORETOLD IN BIBBLE(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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honeto
 
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bullet Posted: 08 April 2009 at 3:15pm
Originally posted by JOUBERAR

Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by JOUBERAR

Originally posted by Mansoor_ali

Mansoor Ali wrote:-
 
"So as you can see, the pagans accused the prophet Muhammad of not performing great miracles and signs. As I also mentioned, Christians themselves always bring this argument up, so hence a Christian cannot honestly take both sides of the arguments, Christian's must make their mind up. Did Muhammad perform great signs and wonders or did he not? If he did not, then he does not fit the description of a false prophet. This just shows the double standards Christians use in their arguments."
 
Originally posted by Doo-bop

Actually, it is muslims who need to make their minds up about this.  On the one hand Muhammad said that he did no miracles,but yet muslim books, hadith etc., contain accounts of miracles performed by him, such as splitting the moon in two (with one half of it falling into Abu Bakr's back yard)Confused



 No where he said that.

 Miracles of Prophet Muhammad:
 http://muslim-responses.com/Miracles_of_prophet_Muhammad/Miracles_of_prophet_Muhammad_

 

 
 
The splitting of the moon is realy absurd because anyone could came out with that idea and quran was only compiled after Muhammads's death and his so miraculous Ascension to heaven in Jerusalem was only a so called dream that is wat his wife Aisha told in hadiths so it wasn't genuine, only a story.
 
 

Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0309:

It is narrated on the authority of Anas b. Malik that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I was brought al-Buraq Who is an animal white and long, larger than a donkey but smaller than a mule, who would place his hoof a distance equal to the range of version. I mounted it and came to the Temple (Bait Maqdis in Jerusalem), then tethered it to the ring used by the prophets. I entered the mosque and prayed two rak'ahs in it, and then came out and Gabriel brought me a vessel of wine and a vessel of milk. I chose the milk, and Gabriel said: You have chosen the natural thing. Then he took me to heaven ... THAT TIME THERE WASN'T EVEN A MOSQUE IN JERUSALEM IT JUST SHOW YOU  HOW BIG LIE IT WAS BECAUSE THEY HAVE WRITEN DOWN  THIS RECORDS WITHOUT TAKEN THE YEARS INTO ACCOUNT. So all his other miracles will be put behind a big question mark.  
 
Jouberar,
I am not sure to discuss with you what is  the word of men (the Hadith) or the quotes you mentioned and wandering off the topic. 
Hadith, in my opinion is for those who believe in the Quran first, not the other way around, so they can weigh it in the light of the Quran as the Hadith is word of men not word of God, like the Quran is.
How about, prophet's one miracle that is present with us, the Quran. The only book that says: God is One and does not contradict that claim. The only book that teaches salvation without contradicting how it is achieved. The only book that said that Jesus (pbuh) was a prophet, a man and does not  contradict that.  The Only book that clearly shows a human how to serve his Creator, and does not contradict that.
Hasan
                                           
 
Why then bring it up  as miracles if it is not the so called word of Allah.
 
The Qur’an is the only book in Islam for which Divine inspiration has been declared, however most miracle claims for Muhammad do not occur in the Qur’an but in the Hadith (Islamic Tradition), and do not rely on eyewitnesses* but on stories passed on orally for generations. Muslim scholars have no generally accepted list of authentic miracles from the Hadith and Bukhari, who is considered to be the most reliable collector of all admitted that of the 300,000 Hadith he collected, only 7275 may be true, thus eliminating over 290,000 of them. In fact Islamic miracle stories began to appear after two Christian Bishops (Abu Qurra from Edessa and Arethas from Caesarea) made a point of Muhammad’s lack of authenticating miracles. In fact these stories are contrary to the spirit of Muhammad in the Qur’an. He repeatedly refused to perform a miracle for unbeliever’s who challenged him (sura 3:181-84: 4:153; 6:8-9)

Sura 6:35 is used by many Muslims to prove that Muhammad could do miracles. It reads “If their spurning is hard on thy mind, yet if thou wert able to seek a tunnel in the ground or a ladder to the skies and bring them a sign,- What good?).”  This passage is hypothetical “IF Thou wert able….” It does not say that Muhammad was able. And why was he being spurned for not performing miracles if he was able to do so?

 
 
 
 
Jouberar,
you are right, and neither the topic suggests that we are talking about miracles of the prophets. Some, on this forum when faced with unaswerable facts distract us all through this kind of tactics of theirs.
Quran is very clear, that God has helped prophets perform miracles yet those bound to reject did not benefit from them and reject them even after witnessing them with their own eyes.
But like I said, its off the topic here, so lets get back to the topic everyone.
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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JOUBERAR
 
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bullet Posted: 10 April 2009 at 11:48am
Originally posted by Mansoor_ali


 Paul was not a disciple of Christ.He never ever met Christ in his life.
 
 
So you are not a disciple of Muhammad because you have never met him your argument make no sense.
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bullet Posted: 13 April 2009 at 5:23pm

Acts 9

Saul's Conversion
 1Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord's disciples. He went to the high priest 2and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem.
 
11I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. 12I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

Paul's story is a miracle.  Everyone knew Paul was persecuting the early Christian Church and of all people GOD chose him to preach to the Gentiles.

Galatians 1
13For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. 14I was advancing in Judaism beyond many Jews of my own age and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. 15But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased 16to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, 17nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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honeto
 
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bullet Posted: 15 April 2009 at 1:22pm
Jouberar,
I would like to talk on some things you said:
 
"For your advise God chose his church leaders even today not self apointed leaders who studied at universities but real children of God and it is true that God will punish his real children if they are not obeying his law. "
 
If you mean servants by the word "children" and those that serve God in reality, God knows them and will reward them in the hereafter? if so agreed. And those who knowingly sin and continue sinning and do not take heed will face punishment? if so, agreed and that's how the Quran says without disagreeing with it.
But wait, I know of a verse in the Bible that does not agree with you on this, where its says: "if any sins, we have an advocate with the father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And he himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for our only but also for the whole world. ??1John2:1-2
 
You further said: 
"That is the truth thier minds are st**id and God will slander them even today if you mock God or say anything bad to him or Jesus he will kill you look back in history all the people that mocked God or Jesus were killed, "God" is still the same "God" as he was in the old testament."
I agree with you as the Quran teaches it too that those who deny God, God will deny them his mercy. And those who say blasphemous things against the one who created them will have none to help them, and will not have forgiveness later. Their chance for seeking forgiveness is now when they have not been called back to account yet, then will be too late. I am sure God does not like that someone bad mouth His chosen prophets either as you said, but I see that there is a verse in the Bible that negate this:
And whoever speaks a word against the son of man (Jesus) it shall be forgiven him, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven either in this world or in the world to come. Matthews 12:32
 
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 15 April 2009 at 1:36pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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truthnowcome
 
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bullet Posted: 21 April 2009 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by believer

Acts 9

Saul's Conversion
 1Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord's disciples. He went to the high priest 2and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem.
 
11I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. 12I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

Paul's story is a miracle.  Everyone knew Paul was persecuting the early Christian Church and of all people GOD chose him to preach to the Gentiles.

Galatians 1
13For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. 14I was advancing in Judaism beyond many Jews of my own age and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. 15But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased 16to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, 17nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus.
 

All praises for Allah.

Salaam!

It’s a good while I did not visit this forum; since Bush boy lost the war I said to my self, my job is finish. However, I just decided to pay a visit, Inshallah.

 

Believers, I thought by now u would have recognized the truth, but I guess Allah (S) did not grant u guidance as yet!

I wanted to correct u on Paul message to the gentile. Please explain this to me:

Isaiah 42:1 “Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth: I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentile.” (Iasiah.42:1)

Is that Paul the bible is talking about? This is what Jesus (S) said:

Jesus (S) said: “And when he (the Comforter) is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.” (John.16:8)

 

  Jesus (S) is saying that, the Comforter will bring Judgment to the world (Gentiles) not Paul!

tnc.

LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!
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bullet Posted: 22 April 2009 at 5:34am
I am not sure what you are getting at.  
 
Are you reading the Bible in your native tongue?  That might help.
 
Paul was judging the Christians wrongly- he was at fault, not following GOD's will but his own.  He had a miraculous conversion and stopped.  Paul then became a preacher to the Gentiles.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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honeto
 
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bullet Posted: 22 April 2009 at 5:33pm
believer,
tnc has quoted from KJV I just checked, that's how it says. But you have failed to address his points.
Hasan 
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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JOUBERAR
 
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bullet Posted: 22 April 2009 at 11:33pm
Originally posted by honeto

Jouberar,
I would like to talk on some things you said:
 
"For your advise God chose his church leaders even today not self apointed leaders who studied at universities but real children of God and it is true that God will punish his real children if they are not obeying his law. "
 
If you mean servants by the word "children" and those that serve God in reality, God knows them and will reward them in the hereafter? if so agreed. And those who knowingly sin and continue sinning and do not take heed will face punishment? if so, agreed and that's how the Quran says without disagreeing with it.
But wait, I know of a verse in the Bible that does not agree with you on this, where its says: "if any sins, we have an advocate with the father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And he himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for our only but also for the whole world. ??1John2:1-2
 
You further said: 
"That is the truth thier minds are st**id and God will slander them even today if you mock God or say anything bad to him or Jesus he will kill you look back in history all the people that mocked God or Jesus were killed, "God" is still the same "God" as he was in the old testament."
I agree with you as the Quran teaches it too that those who deny God, God will deny them his mercy. And those who say blasphemous things against the one who created them will have none to help them, and will not have forgiveness later. Their chance for seeking forgiveness is now when they have not been called back to account yet, then will be too late. I am sure God does not like that someone bad mouth His chosen prophets either as you said, but I see that there is a verse in the Bible that negate this:
And whoever speaks a word against the son of man (Jesus) it shall be forgiven him, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven either in this world or in the world to come. Matthews 12:32
 
Hasan
 
I agree Hasan that your sins will be forgiven but some people God use to make an example to other people that they have no end of mocking God they are making it thier living by mocking Him and H is followers, you must go and read this of Petti Wagner how they killed her and what God have done with her killers.
 
 Murdered Heiress... Living Witness
 
She was kidnapped murder and still lives today. 


Edited by JOUBERAR - 22 April 2009 at 11:36pm
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