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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: MUHAMMAD & QURAN FORETOLD IN BIBBLE(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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JOUBERAR
 
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bullet Posted: 06 April 2009 at 9:38am
Originally posted by Mansoor_ali

Mansoor Ali wrote:-
 
"So as you can see, the pagans accused the prophet Muhammad of not performing great miracles and signs. As I also mentioned, Christians themselves always bring this argument up, so hence a Christian cannot honestly take both sides of the arguments, Christian's must make their mind up. Did Muhammad perform great signs and wonders or did he not? If he did not, then he does not fit the description of a false prophet. This just shows the double standards Christians use in their arguments."
 
Originally posted by Doo-bop

Actually, it is muslims who need to make their minds up about this.  On the one hand Muhammad said that he did no miracles,but yet muslim books, hadith etc., contain accounts of miracles performed by him, such as splitting the moon in two (with one half of it falling into Abu Bakr's back yard)Confused



 No where he said that.

 Miracles of Prophet Muhammad:
 http://muslim-responses.com/Miracles_of_prophet_Muhammad/Miracles_of_prophet_Muhammad_

 

 
 
The splitting of the moon is realy absurd because anyone could came out with that idea and quran was only compiled after Muhammads's death and his so miraculous Ascension to heaven in Jerusalem was only a so called dream that is wat his wife Aisha told in hadiths so it wasn't genuine, only a story.
 
 

Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0309:

It is narrated on the authority of Anas b. Malik that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I was brought al-Buraq Who is an animal white and long, larger than a donkey but smaller than a mule, who would place his hoof a distance equal to the range of version. I mounted it and came to the Temple (Bait Maqdis in Jerusalem), then tethered it to the ring used by the prophets. I entered the mosque and prayed two rak'ahs in it, and then came out and Gabriel brought me a vessel of wine and a vessel of milk. I chose the milk, and Gabriel said: You have chosen the natural thing. Then he took me to heaven ... THAT TIME THERE WASN'T EVEN A MOSQUE IN JERUSALEM IT JUST SHOW YOU  HOW BIG LIE IT WAS BECAUSE THEY HAVE WRITEN DOWN  THIS RECORDS WITHOUT TAKEN THE YEARS INTO ACCOUNT. So all his other miracles will be put behind a big question mark.  
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honeto
 
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bullet Posted: 06 April 2009 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by JOUBERAR

Originally posted by Mansoor_ali

Mansoor Ali wrote:-
 
"So as you can see, the pagans accused the prophet Muhammad of not performing great miracles and signs. As I also mentioned, Christians themselves always bring this argument up, so hence a Christian cannot honestly take both sides of the arguments, Christian's must make their mind up. Did Muhammad perform great signs and wonders or did he not? If he did not, then he does not fit the description of a false prophet. This just shows the double standards Christians use in their arguments."
 
Originally posted by Doo-bop

Actually, it is muslims who need to make their minds up about this.  On the one hand Muhammad said that he did no miracles,but yet muslim books, hadith etc., contain accounts of miracles performed by him, such as splitting the moon in two (with one half of it falling into Abu Bakr's back yard)Confused



 No where he said that.

 Miracles of Prophet Muhammad:
 http://muslim-responses.com/Miracles_of_prophet_Muhammad/Miracles_of_prophet_Muhammad_

 

 
 
The splitting of the moon is realy absurd because anyone could came out with that idea and quran was only compiled after Muhammads's death and his so miraculous Ascension to heaven in Jerusalem was only a so called dream that is wat his wife Aisha told in hadiths so it wasn't genuine, only a story.
 
 

Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0309:

It is narrated on the authority of Anas b. Malik that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I was brought al-Buraq Who is an animal white and long, larger than a donkey but smaller than a mule, who would place his hoof a distance equal to the range of version. I mounted it and came to the Temple (Bait Maqdis in Jerusalem), then tethered it to the ring used by the prophets. I entered the mosque and prayed two rak'ahs in it, and then came out and Gabriel brought me a vessel of wine and a vessel of milk. I chose the milk, and Gabriel said: You have chosen the natural thing. Then he took me to heaven ... THAT TIME THERE WASN'T EVEN A MOSQUE IN JERUSALEM IT JUST SHOW YOU  HOW BIG LIE IT WAS BECAUSE THEY HAVE WRITEN DOWN  THIS RECORDS WITHOUT TAKEN THE YEARS INTO ACCOUNT. So all his other miracles will be put behind a big question mark.  
 
Jouberar,
I am not sure to discuss with you what is  the word of men (the Hadith) or the quotes you mentioned and wandering off the topic. 
Hadith, in my opinion is for those who believe in the Quran first, not the other way around, so they can weigh it in the light of the Quran as the Hadith is word of men not word of God, like the Quran is.
How about, prophet's one miracle that is present with us, the Quran. The only book that says: God is One and does not contradict that claim. The only book that teaches salvation without contradicting how it is achieved. The only book that said that Jesus (pbuh) was a prophet, a man and does not  contradict that.  The Only book that clearly shows a human how to serve his Creator, and does not contradict that.
Hasan
                                           


Edited by honeto - 06 April 2009 at 5:52pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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JOUBERAR
 
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bullet Posted: 07 April 2009 at 7:24am
Originally posted by Mansoor_ali


 Paul was not a disciple of Christ.He never ever met Christ in his life.
 
 
For your information everyone that have n't met Jesus in person is not a disciple or a follower of Christ your rhetoric is meaningless it quite obvious that he didn't met in person but he met in spiritual form. 
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JOUBERAR
 
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bullet Posted: 07 April 2009 at 7:53am
Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by JOUBERAR

Originally posted by Mansoor_ali

Mansoor Ali wrote:-
 
"So as you can see, the pagans accused the prophet Muhammad of not performing great miracles and signs. As I also mentioned, Christians themselves always bring this argument up, so hence a Christian cannot honestly take both sides of the arguments, Christian's must make their mind up. Did Muhammad perform great signs and wonders or did he not? If he did not, then he does not fit the description of a false prophet. This just shows the double standards Christians use in their arguments."
 
Originally posted by Doo-bop

Actually, it is muslims who need to make their minds up about this.  On the one hand Muhammad said that he did no miracles,but yet muslim books, hadith etc., contain accounts of miracles performed by him, such as splitting the moon in two (with one half of it falling into Abu Bakr's back yard)Confused



 No where he said that.

 Miracles of Prophet Muhammad:
 http://muslim-responses.com/Miracles_of_prophet_Muhammad/Miracles_of_prophet_Muhammad_

 

 
 
The splitting of the moon is realy absurd because anyone could came out with that idea and quran was only compiled after Muhammads's death and his so miraculous Ascension to heaven in Jerusalem was only a so called dream that is wat his wife Aisha told in hadiths so it wasn't genuine, only a story.
 
 

Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0309:

It is narrated on the authority of Anas b. Malik that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I was brought al-Buraq Who is an animal white and long, larger than a donkey but smaller than a mule, who would place his hoof a distance equal to the range of version. I mounted it and came to the Temple (Bait Maqdis in Jerusalem), then tethered it to the ring used by the prophets. I entered the mosque and prayed two rak'ahs in it, and then came out and Gabriel brought me a vessel of wine and a vessel of milk. I chose the milk, and Gabriel said: You have chosen the natural thing. Then he took me to heaven ... THAT TIME THERE WASN'T EVEN A MOSQUE IN JERUSALEM IT JUST SHOW YOU  HOW BIG LIE IT WAS BECAUSE THEY HAVE WRITEN DOWN  THIS RECORDS WITHOUT TAKEN THE YEARS INTO ACCOUNT. So all his other miracles will be put behind a big question mark.  
 
Jouberar,
I am not sure to discuss with you what is  the word of men (the Hadith) or the quotes you mentioned and wandering off the topic. 
Hadith, in my opinion is for those who believe in the Quran first, not the other way around, so they can weigh it in the light of the Quran as the Hadith is word of men not word of God, like the Quran is.
How about, prophet's one miracle that is present with us, the Quran. The only book that says: God is One and does not contradict that claim. The only book that teaches salvation without contradicting how it is achieved. The only book that said that Jesus (pbuh) was a prophet, a man and does not  contradict that.  The Only book that clearly shows a human how to serve his Creator, and does not contradict that.
Hasan
                                           
 
Why then bring it up  as miracles if it is not the so called word of Allah.
 
The Qur’an is the only book in Islam for which Divine inspiration has been declared, however most miracle claims for Muhammad do not occur in the Qur’an but in the Hadith (Islamic Tradition), and do not rely on eyewitnesses* but on stories passed on orally for generations. Muslim scholars have no generally accepted list of authentic miracles from the Hadith and Bukhari, who is considered to be the most reliable collector of all admitted that of the 300,000 Hadith he collected, only 7275 may be true, thus eliminating over 290,000 of them. In fact Islamic miracle stories began to appear after two Christian Bishops (Abu Qurra from Edessa and Arethas from Caesarea) made a point of Muhammad’s lack of authenticating miracles. In fact these stories are contrary to the spirit of Muhammad in the Qur’an. He repeatedly refused to perform a miracle for unbeliever’s who challenged him (sura 3:181-84: 4:153; 6:8-9)

Sura 6:35 is used by many Muslims to prove that Muhammad could do miracles. It reads “If their spurning is hard on thy mind, yet if thou wert able to seek a tunnel in the ground or a ladder to the skies and bring them a sign,- What good?).”  This passage is hypothetical “IF Thou wert able….” It does not say that Muhammad was able. And why was he being spurned for not performing miracles if he was able to do so?

 
 
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JOUBERAR
 
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bullet Posted: 07 April 2009 at 9:30am
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah

Christianity=The religion derived from (Jesus Christ) based on (the Bible) as sacred scripture( by definition). Paul is the main author of the Bible so Christianity is more about him than Jesus(As)
 
I think you have to go and study further because here Paul only speak about God and his Son and that we must put God first in our lives.
I think the real issue is that Muslims can't take about Paul is because talks to much about the Son of God and that is why they do not except his manuscripts as authentic.  
 

Rom 1:1 From Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus. God chose me to be an apostle, and he appointed me to preach the good news

Rom 1:2 that he promised long ago by what his prophets said in the holy Scriptures.

Rom 1:3 This good news is about his Son, our Lord Jesus Christ! As a human, he was from the family of David. But the Holy Spirit proved that Jesus is the powerful Son of God, because he was raised from death.

Rom 1:4 (SEE 1:3)

Rom 1:5 Jesus was kind to me and chose me to be an apostle, so that people of all nations would obey and have faith.

Rom 1:6 You are some of those people chosen by Jesus Christ.

Rom 1:7 This letter is to all of you in Rome. God loves you and has chosen you to be his very own people. I pray that God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ will be kind to you and will bless you with peace!

Rom 1:8 First, I thank God in the name of Jesus Christ for all of you. I do this because people everywhere in the world are talking about your faith.

Rom 1:9 God has seen how I never stop praying for you, while I serve him with all my heart and tell the good news about his Son.

Rom 1:10 In all my prayers, I ask God to make it possible for me to visit you.

Rom 1:11 I want to see you and share with you the same blessings that God's Spirit has given me. Then you will grow stronger in your faith.

Rom 1:12 What I am saying is that we can encourage each other by the faith that is ours.

Rom 1:13 My friends, I want you to know that I have often planned to come for a visit. But something has always kept me from doing it. I want to win followers to Christ in Rome, as I have done in many other places.

Rom 1:14 It doesn't matter if people are civilized and educated, or if they are uncivilized and uneducated. I must tell the good news to everyone. That's why I am eager to visit all of you in Rome.

Rom 1:15 (SEE 1:14)

Rom 1:16 I am proud of the good news! It is God's powerful way of saving all people who have faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles.

Rom 1:17 The good news tells how God accepts everyone who has faith, but only those who have faith. It is just as the Scriptures say, "The people God accepts because of their faith will live."

Rom 1:18 From heaven God shows how angry he is with all the wicked and evil things that sinful people do to crush the truth.

Rom 1:19 They know everything that can be known about God, because God has shown it all to them.

Rom 1:20 God's eternal power and character cannot be seen. But from the beginning of creation, God has shown what these are like by all he has made. That's why those people don't have any excuse.

Rom 1:21 They know about God, but they don't honor him or even thank him. Their thoughts are useless, and their st**id minds are in the dark.

 
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Nazarene
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bullet Posted: 07 April 2009 at 5:03pm
salam
 
things like this is what makes me think.
 
 Rom 1:1 From Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus. God chose me to be an apostle, and he appointed me to preach the good news . [ here paul is setting himself up as the "CHOSEN OF GOD" by god.also other "prophets" were humbeled,bewildered and even disturbed at what was happening with them unlike paul.]
 
BUT WAIT!!!
Rom 1:5 Jesus was kind to me and chose me to be an apostle, so that people of all nations would obey and have faith.[ now it seems it wasn't god but jesus that chose him also setting himself up THE CHOSEN OF JESUS". [first god three verses later it's jesus?]
 
BUT WAIT!!!
PAUL DOES REVEAL HIMSELF.
Rom 1:16 I am proud of the good news![ he's prideful. did jesus condone pride? did god ever condone pride?]
 
  Rom 1:21 ......."Their thoughts are useless, and their st**id minds are in the dark."[ he resorts to slander,a slander that Jouberar couldn't repeat. what does jesus think of slander? what does god think of slander?]
BUT WAIT!!!!!
CHECK THIS OUT!!
 
Rom 1:1 From Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus. God chose me to be an apostle, and he appointed me to preach the good news
 
Rom 1:18 From heaven God shows how angry he is with all the wicked and evil things that sinful people do to crush the truth.
 
Rom 1:19 They know everything that can be known about God, because God has shown it all to them.[ sounds like he knows who he's talking about "himself"]
 
leland
 
 
 
 


Edited by Nazarene - 07 April 2009 at 5:09pm
love for all conquers all
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Akhe Abdullah
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bullet Posted: 07 April 2009 at 8:41pm
As Salamu Alaikum Nazarene,Sounds about right,and you didnt have to change a word like Paul did LoL!
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bullet Posted: 08 April 2009 at 3:12am
Originally posted by Nazarene

salam
 
things like this is what makes me think.
 
 Rom 1:1 From Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus. God chose me to be an apostle, and he appointed me to preach the good news . [ here paul is setting himself up as the "CHOSEN OF GOD" by god.also other "prophets" were humbeled,bewildered and even disturbed at what was happening with them unlike paul.]
 
BUT WAIT!!!
Rom 1:5 Jesus was kind to me and chose me to be an apostle, so that people of all nations would obey and have faith.[ now it seems it wasn't god but jesus that chose him also setting himself up THE CHOSEN OF JESUS". [first god three verses later it's jesus?]
 
BUT WAIT!!!
PAUL DOES REVEAL HIMSELF.
Rom 1:16 I am proud of the good news![ he's prideful. did jesus condone pride? did god ever condone pride?]
 
  Rom 1:21 ......."Their thoughts are useless, and their st**id minds are in the dark."[ he resorts to slander,a slander that Jouberar couldn't repeat. what does jesus think of slander? what does god think of slander?]
BUT WAIT!!!!!
CHECK THIS OUT!!
 
Rom 1:1 From Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus. God chose me to be an apostle, and he appointed me to preach the good news
 
Rom 1:18 From heaven God shows how angry he is with all the wicked and evil things that sinful people do to crush the truth.
 
Rom 1:19 They know everything that can be known about God, because God has shown it all to them.[ sounds like he knows who he's talking about "himself"]
 
leland
 
 
 
 
 
For your advise God chose his church leaders even today not self apointed leaders who studied at universities but real children of God and it is true that God will punish his real children if they are not obeying his law.
 
That is the truth thier minds are st**id and God will slander them even today if you mock God or say anything bad to him or Jesus he will kill you look back in history all the people that mocked God or Jesus were killed, "God" is still the same "God" as he was in the old testament.
 
Slander means to punish someone not always to kill somone but to punish them if you like it or not God have the right to do what he want and what ever he want.
 
My friend if you looking for faults you will get it every where you asume that Paul think he is a god, then he would n't be a success full Apostle.
 
If you are running your kingdom and you just allow evrything evil to go on in your kingdom it will perish. 
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