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JOUBERAR
 
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bullet Posted: 02 April 2009 at 8:27pm
Originally posted by Mansoor_ali

Originally posted by JOUBERAR

 
Because Muhammed could perform miracles because he is not out God.


 What about Christ?He also performed miracles So he is not Prophet?Do you agree with me?
 
Originally posted by JOUBERAR

The Apostle Paul did not start Christianity out of his own Christ inspire him through the holy spirit and by the way he was on his way to Damascus to kill christians when Christ appear to him.
Why would he become a Christian if he was a member of the Jewish council and a pharisee and they gave him the legal rights to kill Christian and persecute all of a sudden put his own life in danger and start beginning spread the word of God through Christianity  and you must remember there was also a so called prophecy of him that he fore told Muhammad coming this Paul you said is corrupter.


 Thomas Jefferson

"Paul was the first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus." (All references not listed here, can be
found in Christianity Betrayed)

 

Pauline Theology

Jesus VS Paul

Peace or no Peace

Paul on Divorce

Paul on Marriage

Did he really meet Jesus

Prisoner of Christ

The Jews Killed Jesus

Pauls blunder- Shows how Paul was wrong concerning the End times.

Paul and the Jewish Law

Christian and Pagan beliefs-See how a major Christian saint and Church father states that Christian beliefs which were introduced by Paul are exactly the same as Pagan beliefs!

Paul VS the Disciples

Paul and Circumcision

Paul and Animal Offerings

Did Paul meet Satan

Paul the False Prophet

Paul the Liar

 

 


 
 
Thats quite right JESUS performed miracles you have made a big break through in discovering it he is still perform miracles today.
Let me tell about Apostle Paul he was lucky pharisee who was a great steward in the mosaic law who put God first in his live, who discover that CHRIST is thee only way to to salvation and I myself have very big respect for him for what he have been through no matter how people still criticizing him this is just to indicate that he is still suffering for Christ for what h have done against Christians 2000 years ago.
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JOUBERAR
 
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bullet Posted: 02 April 2009 at 8:49pm
Originally posted by Mansoor_ali

Originally posted by JOUBERAR

 
Because Muhammed could perform miracles because he is not out God.


 What about Christ?He also performed miracles So he is not Prophet?Do you agree with me?
 
Originally posted by JOUBERAR

The Apostle Paul did not start Christianity out of his own Christ inspire him through the holy spirit and by the way he was on his way to Damascus to kill christians when Christ apear to him.
Why would he become a christian if he was a member of the jewis council and a pharisee and they gave him the legal rights to kill christian and persecute all of a sudden put his own life in danger and start begining spread the word of God through christianity  and you must remember there was also a so called prophecy of him that he fore told Muhammed coming this Paul you said is corrupter.


 Thomas Jefferson

"Paul was the first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus." (All references not listed here, can be
found in Christianity Betrayed)

 

Pauline Theology

Jesus VS Paul

Peace or no Peace

Paul on Divorce

Paul on Marriage

Did he really meet Jesus

Prisoner of Christ

The Jews Killed Jesus

Pauls blunder- Shows how Paul was wrong concerning the End times.

Paul and the Jewish Law

Christian and Pagan beliefs-See how a major Christian saint and Church father states that Christian beliefs which were introduced by Paul are exactly the same as Pagan beliefs!

Paul VS the Disciples

Paul and Circumcision

Paul and Animal Offerings

Did Paul meet Satan

Paul the False Prophet

Paul the Liar

 

 


 
 
Please do not take things out context before you blame Paul go and read it properly and will see what he mean he doesn't give us the green light to break the law you must still obey all the laws . 

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

 


Edited by JOUBERAR - 02 April 2009 at 8:51pm
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Doo-bop
 
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bullet Posted: 03 April 2009 at 3:48pm
Mansoor Ali wrote:-
 
"So as you can see, the pagans accused the prophet Muhammad of not performing great miracles and signs. As I also mentioned, Christians themselves always bring this argument up, so hence a Christian cannot honestly take both sides of the arguments, Christian's must make their mind up. Did Muhammad perform great signs and wonders or did he not? If he did not, then he does not fit the description of a false prophet. This just shows the double standards Christians use in their arguments."
 
Actually, it is muslims who need to make their minds up about this.  On the one hand Muhammad said that he did no miracles, but yet muslim books, hadith etc., contain accounts of miracles performed by him, such as splitting the moon in two (with one half of it falling into Abu Bakr's back yard)Confused
"Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world" - John the Baptizer (John 1:29)
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bullet Posted: 03 April 2009 at 3:58pm
semar - your initial posts on this thread are out of order.  You have produced screeds and screeds from the writings of Dr Jamal Badawi.  This is wrong.  Reproducing lengthy posts written by other people is forbidden by the rules of the forum
"Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world" - John the Baptizer (John 1:29)
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Mansoor_ali
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bullet Posted: 04 April 2009 at 3:16am
Originally posted by JOUBERAR

 
Please do not take things out context before you blame Paul go and read it properly and will see what he mean he doesn't give us the green light to break the law you must still obey all the laws . 

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

 


 Here is 516-page refutation of the false apostle Paul:

 http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Pauline_Corruption_of_Biblical_Analysis.pdf

2: Jude's Epistle - More Evidence of rift between Jerusalem  and Paul

http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Jude_s_Epistle__More_Evidence_of_Rift_Between_
Jerusalem_and_Paul__.pdf

3: Was Paul or James' Church the more successful evangelists ?

http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Was_Paul_or_James__Church_the_more_succesfull_Evangelist.pdf

4: Jesus or Paul ? - Lecture by a former Christian Priest

http://islamic-answers.com/jesus_or_paul_____audio_lecture_

For more info check:

http://islamic-answers.com/christianity


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Mansoor_ali
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bullet Posted: 04 April 2009 at 3:31am
Mansoor Ali wrote:-
 
"So as you can see, the pagans accused the prophet Muhammad of not performing great miracles and signs. As I also mentioned, Christians themselves always bring this argument up, so hence a Christian cannot honestly take both sides of the arguments, Christian's must make their mind up. Did Muhammad perform great signs and wonders or did he not? If he did not, then he does not fit the description of a false prophet. This just shows the double standards Christians use in their arguments."
 
Originally posted by Doo-bop

Actually, it is muslims who need to make their minds up about this.  On the one hand Muhammad said that he did no miracles,but yet muslim books, hadith etc., contain accounts of miracles performed by him, such as splitting the moon in two (with one half of it falling into Abu Bakr's back yard)Confused



 No where he said that.

 Miracles of Prophet Muhammad:
 http://muslim-responses.com/Miracles_of_prophet_Muhammad/Miracles_of_prophet_Muhammad_

 

 
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bullet Posted: 04 April 2009 at 9:50am
Originally posted by Mansoor_ali



 Here is 516-page refutation of the false apostle Paul:

 http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Pauline_Corruption_of_Biblical_Analysis.pdf

2: Jude's Epistle - More Evidence of rift between Jerusalem  and Paul

http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Jude_s_Epistle__More_Evidence_of_Rift_Between_
Jerusalem_and_Paul__.pdf

3: Was Paul or James' Church the more successful evangelists ?

http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Was_Paul_or_James__Church_the_more_succesfull_Evangelist.pdf

4: Jesus or Paul ? - Lecture by a former Christian Priest

http://islamic-answers.com/jesus_or_paul_____audio_lecture_

For more info check:

http://islamic-answers.com/christianity




 Here is my one of favourite articles about Paul.Taken from http://answering-christianity.com/pauls_delusions.htm

 

Paul's Delusions: In 1 Corinthians 7:40, he claimed that he "thinks" that he has the Holy Spirit in him!

The sections of this article are:

1-  Paul's claim in 1 Corinthians 7:40.
2-  The serious issue.
3-  Conclusion.

 

 

 

1-  Paul's claim in 1 Corinthians 7:40:

During my debate with Dr. James White, I raised many points that left him dead silent and spinning around himself (See especially minutes 15:00 and 19:20 in the video).  He even went as far as calling me a liar (again, see the minute-positions that I gave).  One of those points that I silenced him on was quoting 1 Corinthians 7:40, where Paul stated that he "thinks" he has the Spirit of GOD Almighty in him.  My point was this:

1-  For Paul to say that he "thinks" he has the Holy Spirit, he obviously wasn't even sure 100% that he had It.

2-  I gave the example by pointing my finger in the direction of where my wife was sitting and said: "For instance, I don't say I THINK I am seeing my wife.  No!  I see my wife!  She's sitting over there.  You have to speak with authority and confidence, especially when you declare yourself to be a Prophet who was sent from GOD Almighty." 

If I were to say that I think I see my wife, and she's only some 10-20 feet away, then this would tell you that my eye sight is poor and I would need eyeglasses.  Same thing with Paul.  If he wasn't even sure whether or not GOD Almighty's Spirit was in him, then we have a problem.

This was one of the points that I silenced James White on during my debate with him.  His sorry-reply was that I brought everything "except for the kitchen's sink."  Reading between the lines:  Meaning that I (James white) have no response to this point!

It is also worth mentioning that James White, who happily posted all of his debates with incompetent clowns like Nadir Ahmed, has only posted his 20-minute "rebuttal" to me, which actually when you listen through it, you'll see that he was cornered and silenced on many many points, and that he was only whining.

Furthermore, and as I mentioned above, James White called me a liar for quoting Paul saying that he "thinks" he has the Holy Spirit.  Well, I'll let the English translations speak on this.  Let us look at what Paul said:

1 Corinthians 7:40 (New International Version)
40 In my judgment, she is happier if she stays as she is—and I think that I too have the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (New American Standard Bible)
40 But in my opinion she is happier if she remains as she is; and I think that I also have the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (Amplified Bible)
40 But in my opinion [a widow] is happier (more blessed and to be envied) if she does not remarry. And also I think I have the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (New Living Translation)
40 But in my opinion it would be better for her to stay single, and I think I am giving you counsel from God’s Spirit when I say this.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (King James Version)
40 But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (English Standard Version)
40 Yet in my judgment she is happier if she remains as she is. And I think that I too have the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (New King James Version)
40 But she is happier if she remains as she is, according to my judgment—and I think I also have the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (21st Century King James Version)
40 But she is happier if she so remain, in my judgment; and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (American Standard Version)
40 But she is happier if she abide as she is, after my judgment: and I think that I also have the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (Young's Literal Translation)
40 and she is happier if she may so remain -- according to my judgment; and I think I also have the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (Darby Translation)
40 But she is happier if she so remain, according to my judgment; but I think that *I* also have God's Spirit.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
40 But she is happier if she remains as she is, in my opinion. And I think that I also have the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (New International Reader's Version)
40 In my opinion, she is happier if she stays single. And I also think that I am led by the Spirit of God in saying that.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (New International Version - UK)
40 In my judgment, she is happier if she stays as she is— and I think that I too have the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (Today's New International Version)
40 In my judgment, she is happier if she stays as she is—and I think that I too have the Spirit of God.

As virtually more than 90% of all English translations quoted Paul saying "I think", then obviously Dr. James White was only playing games and trying to desperately grapple his way out of the corner.  I am confident that even his own Bible says "I think", which would really make it quite ironic.  I will investigate this further, insha'Allah (if Allah Almighty is Willing).

I also want to say that when I personally get my hands on the debate files, I will post them, insha'Allah.

 

 

2-  The serious issue:

Now moving on to the more serious issues of Paul, I believe it is a very serious thing.  Paul showed absolutely no confidence and no authority in his claims about receiving Divine Revelations.  When he said "I think I have the Spirit of GOD in me," that statement virtually blew away all of his credibility as a true Prophet, because what kind of a delusional and confused person was he?  And what "spirit" was really inspiring him?  Or was he just having plain delusions? 

Historically, we've heard of many many false Prophets that came and went.  Our most recent one was David Koresh of Waco, Texas - USA, where he and his followers were burnt alive by the FBI, which in return caused for the Oklahoma City bombing by, Timothy McVeigh and his other partner who was never captured, and whom the US government calls "John Doe", to happen for vengeance against the US government.  He also had delusions of him being inspired by GOD Almighty.  So why should Paul be any different? 

Furthermore, since the Bible's own theologians admit that its books and gospels had all been:

  1. Written by mysterious men.
  2. Written by an unknown number of men.
  3. Written in unknown places.
  4. Written in unknown dates.

then based on what objective grounds should we even consider Paul's current books to be:

  1. All 100% his work.
  2. Unaltered by men.
  3. All True Divine Revelations from GOD Almighty.

I don't see that being a valid case at all.  Paul clearly demonstrated his uncertainty and doubts about whether he even had the Spirit of GOD Almighty in him.

 

 

3-  Conclusion:

The Bible again and again is proven to be corrupt and false.  Paul was also proven again and again to be a false prophet.  I personally think that since liquor back then was quite harmful to the body, because it was heavily concentrated and full of bacteria and microbes, that it might've effected his head and caused him to start hearing voices and fool and mislead many with him.

Islam is the Divine Truth from Allah Almighty.  I strongly recommend you visit the following links:

  1. The Overwhelming Scientific Miracles in the Holy Quran.
     
  2. Isaiah 53 further prove that Jesus never got crucified, which further confirms Islam.
     
  3. What is Islam?
     
  4. What is the status of Jews, Christians and other non-Muslims in Islam?

May Allah Almighty Lead you and your families to Islam.  Ameen.

 
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bullet Posted: 04 April 2009 at 10:35am
Originally posted by Mansoor_ali

Originally posted by Mansoor_ali



 Here is 516-page refutation of the false apostle Paul:

 http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Pauline_Corruption_of_Biblical_Analysis.pdf

2: Jude's Epistle - More Evidence of rift between Jerusalem  and Paul

http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Jude_s_Epistle__More_Evidence_of_Rift_Between_
Jerusalem_and_Paul__.pdf

3: Was Paul or James' Church the more successful evangelists ?

http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Was_Paul_or_James__Church_the_more_succesfull_Evangelist.pdf

4: Jesus or Paul ? - Lecture by a former Christian Priest

http://islamic-answers.com/jesus_or_paul_____audio_lecture_

For more info check:

http://islamic-answers.com/christianity




 Here is my one of favourite articles about Paul.Taken from http://answering-christianity.com/pauls_delusions.htm

 

Paul's Delusions: In 1 Corinthians 7:40, he claimed that he "thinks" that he has the Holy Spirit in him!

The sections of this article are:

1-  Paul's claim in 1 Corinthians 7:40.
2-  The serious issue.
3-  Conclusion.

 

 

 

1-  Paul's claim in 1 Corinthians 7:40:

During my debate with Dr. James White, I raised many points that left him dead silent and spinning around himself (See especially minutes 15:00 and 19:20 in the video).  He even went as far as calling me a liar (again, see the minute-positions that I gave).  One of those points that I silenced him on was quoting 1 Corinthians 7:40, where Paul stated that he "thinks" he has the Spirit of GOD Almighty in him.  My point was this:

1-  For Paul to say that he "thinks" he has the Holy Spirit, he obviously wasn't even sure 100% that he had It.

2-  I gave the example by pointing my finger in the direction of where my wife was sitting and said: "For instance, I don't say I THINK I am seeing my wife.  No!  I see my wife!  She's sitting over there.  You have to speak with authority and confidence, especially when you declare yourself to be a Prophet who was sent from GOD Almighty." 

If I were to say that I think I see my wife, and she's only some 10-20 feet away, then this would tell you that my eye sight is poor and I would need eyeglasses.  Same thing with Paul.  If he wasn't even sure whether or not GOD Almighty's Spirit was in him, then we have a problem.

This was one of the points that I silenced James White on during my debate with him.  His sorry-reply was that I brought everything "except for the kitchen's sink."  Reading between the lines:  Meaning that I (James white) have no response to this point!

It is also worth mentioning that James White, who happily posted all of his debates with incompetent clowns like Nadir Ahmed, has only posted his 20-minute "rebuttal" to me, which actually when you listen through it, you'll see that he was cornered and silenced on many many points, and that he was only whining.

Furthermore, and as I mentioned above, James White called me a liar for quoting Paul saying that he "thinks" he has the Holy Spirit.  Well, I'll let the English translations speak on this.  Let us look at what Paul said:

1 Corinthians 7:40 (New International Version)
40 In my judgment, she is happier if she stays as she is—and I think that I too have the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (New American Standard Bible)
40 But in my opinion she is happier if she remains as she is; and I think that I also have the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (Amplified Bible)
40 But in my opinion [a widow] is happier (more blessed and to be envied) if she does not remarry. And also I think I have the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (New Living Translation)
40 But in my opinion it would be better for her to stay single, and I think I am giving you counsel from God’s Spirit when I say this.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (King James Version)
40 But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (English Standard Version)
40 Yet in my judgment she is happier if she remains as she is. And I think that I too have the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (New King James Version)
40 But she is happier if she remains as she is, according to my judgment—and I think I also have the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (21st Century King James Version)
40 But she is happier if she so remain, in my judgment; and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (American Standard Version)
40 But she is happier if she abide as she is, after my judgment: and I think that I also have the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (Young's Literal Translation)
40 and she is happier if she may so remain -- according to my judgment; and I think I also have the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (Darby Translation)
40 But she is happier if she so remain, according to my judgment; but I think that *I* also have God's Spirit.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
40 But she is happier if she remains as she is, in my opinion. And I think that I also have the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (New International Reader's Version)
40 In my opinion, she is happier if she stays single. And I also think that I am led by the Spirit of God in saying that.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (New International Version - UK)
40 In my judgment, she is happier if she stays as she is— and I think that I too have the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 7:40 (Today's New International Version)
40 In my judgment, she is happier if she stays as she is—and I think that I too have the Spirit of God.

As virtually more than 90% of all English translations quoted Paul saying "I think", then obviously Dr. James White was only playing games and trying to desperately grapple his way out of the corner.  I am confident that even his own Bible says "I think", which would really make it quite ironic.  I will investigate this further, insha'Allah (if Allah Almighty is Willing).

I also want to say that when I personally get my hands on the debate files, I will post them, insha'Allah.

 

 

2-  The serious issue:

Now moving on to the more serious issues of Paul, I believe it is a very serious thing.  Paul showed absolutely no confidence and no authority in his claims about receiving Divine Revelations.  When he said "I think I have the Spirit of GOD in me," that statement virtually blew away all of his credibility as a true Prophet, because what kind of a delusional and confused person was he?  And what "spirit" was really inspiring him?  Or was he just having plain delusions? 

Historically, we've heard of many many false Prophets that came and went.  Our most recent one was David Koresh of Waco, Texas - USA, where he and his followers were burnt alive by the FBI, which in return caused for the Oklahoma City bombing by, Timothy McVeigh and his other partner who was never captured, and whom the US government calls "John Doe", to happen for vengeance against the US government.  He also had delusions of him being inspired by GOD Almighty.  So why should Paul be any different? 

Furthermore, since the Bible's own theologians admit that its books and gospels had all been:

  1. Written by mysterious men.
  2. Written by an unknown number of men.
  3. Written in unknown places.
  4. Written in unknown dates.

then based on what objective grounds should we even consider Paul's current books to be:

  1. All 100% his work.
  2. Unaltered by men.
  3. All True Divine Revelations from GOD Almighty.

I don't see that being a valid case at all.  Paul clearly demonstrated his uncertainty and doubts about whether he even had the Spirit of GOD Almighty in him.

 

 

3-  Conclusion:

The Bible again and again is proven to be corrupt and false.  Paul was also proven again and again to be a false prophet.  I personally think that since liquor back then was quite harmful to the body, because it was heavily concentrated and full of bacteria and microbes, that it might've effected his head and caused him to start hearing voices and fool and mislead many with him.

Islam is the Divine Truth from Allah Almighty.  I strongly recommend you visit the following links:

  1. The Overwhelming Scientific Miracles in the Holy Quran.
     
  2. Isaiah 53 further prove that Jesus never got crucified, which further confirms Islam.
     
  3. What is Islam?
     
  4. What is the status of Jews, Christians and other non-Muslims in Islam?

May Allah Almighty Lead you and your families to Islam.  Ameen.

 
 
oh dear, more of the same from you.  Copying screeds from other websites is not acceptable behaviour in forums.  Anyway, "thinking" you know something does not mean you are not sure that it is true, nor does it mean that it is not true.  So there.  Ha ha to you.  LOL
"Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world" - John the Baptizer (John 1:29)
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