IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: MUHAMMAD & QURAN FORETOLD IN BIBBLE

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Originally posted by believer

The GOOD NEWs is Jesus - our salvation.  

Now remember I am not convinced that the Quran is the Word of GOD but, the following verse may actually be about Jesus and not Mohammd-
007.157 
YUSUFALI: "Those who follow the messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;

We know that Mohammad is not mentioned in the Law or Gospel.   

Oh Yes!

Read the history on this link:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad's_first_revelation
History recorded that: Muhammad (S) used to go up mountain cave, called Ghar-Hera, in Arabia (Mt. Paran) to meditate. While he was there an angel, later identified as Gabriel, commanded him saying: “read” and he respond by saying: “I am not learned,” the angel repeat the act three times, then Muhammad (S) began to repeat the command of the angel which became the first five verse of surah 96, Al-Alaq, of the Qur’an.  
  Read: In the name of thy Lord who created. Created man from a clot. Read: and thy Lord is the Most Bounteous, Who taught by the pen, Taught man which he knew not. (Q.96:1-5)
   Allah conform it in the Quran: Those who fallow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mention in their own (Scriptures), In the Taurat {Torah} and the Injeel (Gospel). (Q.7:157). 
   Torah: Isaiah29:12 and Gospel: John 16:13 “…for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear” [from angel Gabriel (S)]. 
   And thou (O Muhammad) was not (able) to recite a book before this (book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand: in that case indeed, would the talkers of vanity have doubted. (Q.29:48)
   Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) desire. It is no less than inspiration sent down to him. He was taught by one mighty in power. (Q.53:3-5)

 Here, I have explained it in more details:
(1)Isaiah is having a vision of a book that is seal.

(2) When that "seal book" is given to some one who is learned they would not "understand it."

 To understand the Qur’an we have to use the explanation of Muhammad’s (S). It is mentioned in the Qur’an: 

    Had not the Grace of Allâh and His Mercy been upon you (O Muhammad ), a party of them would certainly have made a decision to mislead you, but (in fact) they mislead none except their own selves, and no harm can they do to you in the least. Allâh has sent down to you the Book (The Qur'ân), and AlHikmah (Islâmic laws, knowledge of legal and illegal things i.e. the Prophet's Sunnah - legal ways), and taught you that which you knew not. And Ever Great is the Grace of Allâh unto you (O Muhammad ). (Qur’an11:3)

  You see that! Allah (S) has sent down two things the book and AlHikmah (wisdom) and He taught Muhammad (S) what he didn’t Knew before.

  Commenting on this verse Imam ash-Shaafi'ee's said: "Allah has mentioned that 'the book' (Al-Kitaab) which is the Quran and he mentioned 'The wisdom' (al- Hikmah) and I have learnt from the people of knowledgr that  'al- hikmah' is the Sunnah of Allah's Messenger (S).........."

Now, Allah said in Quran16:64  ”And we have revealed the Book (al-kitaab) unto thee only that thou mayst explain unto them that wherein they differ, and (as) a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe.” 

Exactly as Isaiah prophesy! With out the explanations (The Sunnah) “the one learned” would not understand it.

(3) "AND" the book is given to someone who is not learned.

(4) And he would say: "I am not learned."
  The Book of Revelation chapter 10 mentioned the coming of another Seal Book which John did not write and that is the same book that mentioned in Isaiah 29:11. 
 Why God Almighty send the seal book with an unlettered Prophet? Isaiah (S) tells us.
   Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have remove their heart far from me, and their fear towards me is taught by the precept of men. (Isaiah.29:13)
And in that day (when the book is reveled to the unlettered Prophet) shall the deaf hear the word of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity and out of darkness…(Isaiah.29:18-19)
tnc

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truthnowcome Senior Member Joined: 05 April 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 683	Posted: 07 May 2009 at 4:16pm
	*Originally posted by believer* The GOOD NEWs is Jesus - our salvation. Now remember I am not convinced that the Quran is the Word of GOD but, the following verse may actually be about Jesus and not Mohammd- 007.157 YUSUFALI: "Those who follow the messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel; We know that Mohammad is not mentioned in the Law or Gospel. Oh Yes! Read the history on this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad's_first_revelation History recorded that: Muhammad (S) used to go up mountain cave, called Ghar-Hera, in Arabia (Mt. Paran) to meditate. While he was there an angel, later identified as Gabriel, commanded him saying: “read” and he respond by saying: “I am not learned,” the angel repeat the act three times, then Muhammad (S) began to repeat the command of the angel which became the first five verse of surah 96, Al-Alaq, of the Qur’an. *Read*: In the name of thy Lord who created. Created man from a clot. Read: and thy Lord is the Most Bounteous, Who taught by the pen, Taught man which he knew not. (Q.96:1-5) Allah conform it in the Quran: Those who fallow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mention in their own* (Scriptures), In the Taurat {Torah} and the Injeel (Gospel). (Q.7:157).* Torah: Isaiah29:12 and Gospel: *John 16:13* “…for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear” [from angel Gabriel (S)]. And thou (O Muhammad) was not (able) to recite a book before this (book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand: in that case indeed, would the talkers of vanity have doubted. (Q.29:48) Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) desire. It is no less than inspiration sent down to him. He was taught by one mighty in power. (Q.53:3-5) Here, I have explained it in more details: (1)Isaiah is having a vision of a book that is seal. (2) When that "seal book" is given to some one who is learned they would not "understand it." To understand the Qur’an we have to use the explanation of Muhammad’s (S). It is mentioned in the Qur’an: Had not the Grace of Allâh and His Mercy been upon you (O Muhammad ), a party of them would certainly have made a decision to mislead you, but (in fact) they mislead none except their own selves, and no harm can they do to you in the least. Allâh has sent down to you the Book (The Qur'ân), and AlHikmah (Islâmic laws, knowledge of legal and illegal things i.e. the Prophet's Sunnah - legal ways), and taught you that which you knew not. And Ever Great is the Grace of Allâh unto you (O Muhammad ). (Qur’an11:3) You see that! Allah (S) has sent down two things the book and AlHikmah (wisdom) and He taught Muhammad (S) what he didn’t Knew before. Commenting on this verse Imam ash-Shaafi'ee's said: "Allah has mentioned that 'the book' (Al-Kitaab) which is the Quran and he mentioned 'The wisdom' (al- Hikmah) and I have learnt from the people of knowledgr that 'al- hikmah' is the Sunnah of Allah's Messenger (S).........." Now, Allah said in Quran16:64 ”And we have revealed the Book (al-kitaab) unto thee only that thou mayst explain* unto them that wherein they differ, and (as) a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe.”* Exactly as Isaiah prophesy! With out the explanations (The Sunnah) “the one learned” would not understand it. (3) "AND" the book is given to someone who is not learned. (4) And he would say: "I am not learned." The Book of Revelation chapter 10 mentioned the coming of another Seal Book which John did not write and that is the same book that mentioned in Isaiah 29:11. Why God Almighty send the seal book with an unlettered Prophet? Isaiah (S) tells us. Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have remove their heart far from me, and their fear towards me is taught by the precept of men. (Isaiah.29:13) And in that day (when the book is reveled to the unlettered Prophet) shall the deaf hear the word of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity and out of darkness…(Isaiah.29:18-19) *tnc*
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truthnowcome Senior Member Joined: 05 April 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 683	Posted: 07 May 2009 at 4:40pm
	*Originally posted by believer* Mohammad released people from nothing, actually added more rules and regulations- Jesus released us from death. Matthew 11 28"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." Actually adding more rules? Believer, you are still sleeping! What happen to this verse: Jesus (S)] said: “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of Truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but what he hears.” (John.16:12-13) “All the truth” will come with the arrival of the Comforter! Here in the Book of Revelation chapter 10 mentioned the coming of another Book which John did not wrote. It is mentioned: Rev.10:1-4 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven. 2-And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth. 3-And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voice. 4-And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, “I was about to write”: and I heard a voice from haven saying unto, seal up those things which the seven thunder utters, “and write them not”. Point (1) Another Mighty Angel: Jesus (S) is not another mighty angel; it is Gabriel (s) the messenger of Allah who brought the message to and from Allah. Point (2) He had in his hand a little book open: V.2 And he had in his hand a little book open: Point (3) Seventh thunders uttered their voice (something was revealing): V.3...And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voice. Point 4: John was about to write what was revealing: V.4-And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: Point 5: He was told to seal up the message and write them not: *V.4…and I heard a voice from haven saying unto, seal up those things which the seven thunders utters, and write them not.** (Rev.10:4)* The angel brought the little book and John was order “not to write down the message in that book,” because the time was not right. “So it is not the bible,” because the bible is a “written book” and it (the bible) is telling us about “another book.” Which book is that? Further as you read in Verse 7 it says: “But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound: the mystery of God should finish* as he declared to his servants the prophets. (Rev.10:7)* In the days when this little book shall reveal all the mystery (all the truth) of God will finish (revealed).The book was never written according to the voice from Heaven: *“seal up those things…and write them not.” Now, “Begin to sound” mean “revealing” In the days when this little book shall reveal “all the mystery”* (That is “all the truth”) of God will finish (revealed, no more mystery) as he declared to his servants the prophets. And what Jesus (S) said? He said: “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of Truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but what he hears.” (John.16:12-13) Therefore, the Spirit of Truth which is the Comforter would have to bring this little book which contains all the truth. And in 10:4 it says: “John was about to write…” So when this Book will reveal “some one” will have to be there to “write the message down.” Allah has revealed to Muhammad (S): In John 14:26 it is mentioned: “Butt the Comforter which is the Holy Ghost...” Here, the bible we understand that the “Comforter” is the “Holy Spirit.” However, in 1John.2:1 it read: “...we have an ADVOCATE with the father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” Jesus was also call “Comforter.” The word used there for both is “Paracletos” which translated as “Comforter, Advocate, etc.” So we have now, Jesus (S) as a “Comforter” and the Holy Spirit as the “Comforter,” Jesus (S) said: “…I will pray to the father, and he shall give you "ANOTHER" Comforter…”14:16-17. What does another mean? It cannot be the same thing; it has to be another like the same thing. Jesus (S) is the “first” Comforter; then the “other”: The one to follow must be of “like nature” or we can say, the “Another Comforter” like Jesus (S) who is a Comforter. Jesus (S) mentioned in *John 3:13 (KJV): “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man* *which is* *‘IN’* *heaven.”* Jesus (S) was the Son of man “ON” earth and he spoke about “another” Son of man which is “IN” heaven. *Tnc*
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believer Guest Group Joined: 08 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1397	Posted: 08 May 2009 at 6:21am
	honeto - For the Muslim the easy answer is GOD- in my heart is the comforter. Jesus when residing in a Christians heart is a comfort and the Holy Spirit. Google the fruits of the Spirit. John 14 ¹⁵"If you love me, you will obey what I command. ¹⁶And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— ¹⁷the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. ¹⁸I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. ¹⁹Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. ²⁰On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. ²¹Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him." Luke 24 ⁴⁹I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high." Acts 2 ⁴All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.
	John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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JOUBERAR Guest Group Joined: 13 March 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 573	Posted: 08 May 2009 at 3:54pm
	*Originally posted by truthnowcome* *Originally posted by believer* The GOOD NEWs is Jesus - our salvation. Now remember I am not convinced that the Quran is the Word of GOD but, the following verse may actually be about Jesus and not Mohammd- 007.157 YUSUFALI: "Those who follow the messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel; We know that Mohammad is not mentioned in the Law or Gospel. Oh Yes! Read the history on this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad's_first_revelation History recorded that: Muhammad (S) used to go up mountain cave, called Ghar-Hera, in Arabia (Mt. Paran) to meditate. While he was there an angel, later identified as Gabriel, commanded him saying: “read” and he respond by saying: “I am not learned,” the angel repeat the act three times, then Muhammad (S) began to repeat the command of the angel which became the first five verse of surah 96, Al-Alaq, of the Qur’an. *Read*: In the name of thy Lord who created. Created man from a clot. Read: and thy Lord is the Most Bounteous, Who taught by the pen, Taught man which he knew not. (Q.96:1-5) Allah conform it in the Quran: Those who fallow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mention in their own* (Scriptures), In the Taurat {Torah} and the Injeel (Gospel). (Q.7:157).* Torah: Isaiah29:12 and Gospel: *John 16:13* “…for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear” [from angel Gabriel (S)]. And thou (O Muhammad) was not (able) to recite a book before this (book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand: in that case indeed, would the talkers of vanity have doubted. (Q.29:48) Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) desire. It is no less than inspiration sent down to him. He was taught by one mighty in power. (Q.53:3-5) Here, I have explained it in more details: (1)Isaiah is having a vision of a book that is seal. (2) When that "seal book" is given to some one who is learned they would not "understand it." To understand the Qur’an we have to use the explanation of Muhammad’s (S). It is mentioned in the Qur’an: Had not the Grace of Allâh and His Mercy been upon you (O Muhammad ), a party of them would certainly have made a decision to mislead you, but (in fact) they mislead none except their own selves, and no harm can they do to you in the least. Allâh has sent down to you the Book (The Qur'ân), and AlHikmah (Islâmic laws, knowledge of legal and illegal things i.e. the Prophet's Sunnah - legal ways), and taught you that which you knew not. And Ever Great is the Grace of Allâh unto you (O Muhammad ). (Qur’an11:3) You see that! Allah (S) has sent down two things the book and AlHikmah (wisdom) and He taught Muhammad (S) what he didn’t Knew before. Commenting on this verse Imam ash-Shaafi'ee's said: "Allah has mentioned that 'the book' (Al-Kitaab) which is the Quran and he mentioned 'The wisdom' (al- Hikmah) and I have learnt from the people of knowledgr that 'al- hikmah' is the Sunnah of Allah's Messenger (S).........." Now, Allah said in Quran16:64 ”And we have revealed the Book (al-kitaab) unto thee only that thou mayst explain* unto them that wherein they differ, and (as) a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe.”* Exactly as Isaiah prophesy! With out the explanations (The Sunnah) “the one learned” would not understand it. (3) "AND" the book is given to someone who is not learned. (4) And he would say: "I am not learned." The Book of Revelation chapter 10 mentioned the coming of another Seal Book which John did not write and that is the same book that mentioned in Isaiah 29:11. Why God Almighty send the seal book with an unlettered Prophet? Isaiah (S) tells us. Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have remove their heart far from me, and their fear towards me is taught by the precept of men. (Isaiah.29:13) And in that day (when the book is reveled to the unlettered Prophet) shall the deaf hear the word of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity and out of darkness…(Isaiah.29:18-19) *tnc* Please do not add extra words into the texts God is talking only to the Jews the descendants of Jakob and not Arabs or muslims . Isa 29:12 Others say, "We can't read it, because we don't know how to read." Isa 29:13 The Lord has said: "These people praise me with their words, but they never really think about me. They worship me by repeating rules made up by humans. Isa 29:14 So once again I will do things that shock and amaze them, and I will destroy the wisdom of those who claim to know and understand." Isa 29:15 You are in for trouble, if you try to hide your plans from the LORD! Or if you think what you do in the dark can't be seen. Isa 29:16 You have it all backwards. A clay dish doesn't say to the potter, "You didn't make me. You don't even know how." Isa 29:17 Soon the forest of Lebanon will become a field with crops, thick as a forest. Isa 29:18 The deaf will be able to hear whatever is read to them; the blind will be freed from a life of darkness. Isa 29:19 The poor and the needy will celebrate and shout because of the LORD, the holy God of Israel. Isa 29:20 All who are cruel and arrogant will be gone forever. Those who live by crime will disappear, Isa 29:21 together with everyone who tells lies in court and keeps innocent people from getting a fair trial. Isa 29:22 The LORD who rescued Abraham has this to say about Jacob's descendants: "They will no longer be ashamed and disgraced. Isa 29:23 When they see how great I have made their nation, they will praise and honor me, the holy God of Israel. Isa 29:24 Everyone who is confused will understand, and all who have complained will obey my teaching."
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truthnowcome Senior Member Joined: 05 April 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 683	Posted: 08 May 2009 at 9:40pm
	*Originally posted by Nazarene* salaams to all! well thanks to TNC i'll post it once more. i believe the "church" changed the "name" from something other than { king of kings lord of lords} which is a title not a "name".i believe this is of muhammad and his followers you decide here it is: Revelation 19:11-19 (New International Version) The Rider on the White Horse ¹¹I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. ¹²His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. ¹³He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. ¹⁴The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. ¹⁵Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter[meaning the everlasting good news]." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. ¹⁶On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. {?} ¹⁷And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, "Come, gather together for the great supper of God, ¹⁸so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, small and great." ¹⁹Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army. we also see that there is a contradiction here. in verse 12 it states "He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself." and yet in verse 16 the "name" written on him is now clear and understandable{ now meaning jesus}. something was lost here the "church" did not want people to know. also jesus states in his own words "I HAVE NOT COME TO JUDGE THE WORLD BUT TO SAVE IT" so much for verse 11. leland Salaam ! It is very nice of you to mentioned Ch 19, but I don’t think it is referring to Muhammad (S). I want to believe you arrived with that because is has a verse in common with Rev.12. And she brought forth a MAN CHILD, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. *(Rev.12:5)* And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smith the nation: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. (Rev19:15) One is about Muhammad (S) and one is about Jesus (S). Let me explain! Revlation12:5 mentioned “And she brought forth a MAN CHILD, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron...” then the Kingdom of God would have been come. Rev.12:10 stated: (Brackets added) “…*Now comes Salvation* and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and power (true message) of his Christ (anointed)… (Rev.12:10). And I have established before that the man child is no other than Muhammad (S) Quran conforms: “We have not sent thee but as a (universal Messenger) to all mankind…but most of mankind know not.” (Q.34:28). Jesus (S) did not rule all people and nations when he came; did he? The answer is no! Now, I will show you why both of them would have rule with a rod of iron. As we know that Ishmael (S) dwelt in Paran: *“And he* *[Ishmael (S)] dwelt in the wilderness of Paran”* (Genesis 21:21*) Habakkuk mentioned: “…And the Holy One from Mount Paran. Se-lah. His Glory covered the heaven, and the earth was full of his praise.” (Habakkuk.3:3)* …at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear. Thou didst tresh the heathen in anger. Thou wentest forth for *Salvation* *of thy people*, even *Salvation* *for the ANOINTED; thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Se-lah. (Habk.3:11-13) The scripture mentioned two personalities* to bring “salvation” The Holy One from mount Paran and the anointed (that is the messiah). The Holy One from mount Paran way (message) is everlasting: “He stood and measured the earth (universal message): he beheld and drove asunder the nations…His way are everlasting.”* (Habk.3:6).* That would mean, when Jesus (S) comes the second time he will re establish Muhammad (S) message universally. “Rule with the rod of iron” rod indicates the message: that is to say, Rule as king with a powerful and effective message. That is why both chapters mentioned the same verse that is common. Revelation 19 has to do with war in the mid air. It says here: Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife (the church) hath made herself ready. (Rev. 19:7) And he said unto me, Write, Bless are THEY which are called unto the MARRIAGE SUPPER of the Lamb. And he said unto me, These are the true saying of God. (V.9) And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the FOWLS that flies in the midst of heaven come and gather yourself together unto the SUPPER of the Great God; that you may EAT the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. (Rev.1917-18) We have the saint and the fowls that fly in midst (Air) of heaven, they are called unto the MARRIGE SUPPER to eat of those people. It is all about war, they will destroy them from mid air. It has to do with modern day plane! John described them as “bird in mid of heaven”. Plane has nothing to do with Muhammad (S) but it has to do in modern day war. tnc
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JOUBERAR Guest Group Joined: 13 March 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 573	Posted: 09 May 2009 at 7:13pm
	*Originally posted by truthnowcome* *Originally posted by Nazarene* salaams to all! well thanks to TNC i'll post it once more. i believe the "church" changed the "name" from something other than { king of kings lord of lords} which is a title not a "name".i believe this is of muhammad and his followers you decide here it is: Revelation 19:11-19 (New International Version) The Rider on the White Horse ¹¹I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. ¹²His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. ¹³He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. ¹⁴The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. ¹⁵Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter[meaning the everlasting good news]." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. ¹⁶On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. {?} ¹⁷And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, "Come, gather together for the great supper of God, ¹⁸so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, small and great." ¹⁹Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army. we also see that there is a contradiction here. in verse 12 it states "He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself." and yet in verse 16 the "name" written on him is now clear and understandable{ now meaning jesus}. something was lost here the "church" did not want people to know. also jesus states in his own words "I HAVE NOT COME TO JUDGE THE WORLD BUT TO SAVE IT" so much for verse 11. leland Salaam ! It is very nice of you to mentioned Ch 19, but I don’t think it is referring to Muhammad (S). I want to believe you arrived with that because is has a verse in common with Rev.12. And she brought forth a MAN CHILD, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. *(Rev.12:5)* And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smith the nation: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. (Rev19:15) One is about Muhammad (S) and one is about Jesus (S). Let me explain! Revlation12:5 mentioned “And she brought forth a MAN CHILD, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron...” then the Kingdom of God would have been come. Rev.12:10 stated: (Brackets added) “…*Now comes Salvation* and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and power (true message) of his Christ (anointed)… (Rev.12:10). And I have established before that the man child is no other than Muhammad (S) Quran conforms: “We have not sent thee but as a (universal Messenger) to all mankind…but most of mankind know not.” (Q.34:28). Jesus (S) did not rule all people and nations when he came; did he? The answer is no! Now, I will show you why both of them would have rule with a rod of iron. As we know that Ishmael (S) dwelt in Paran: *“And he* *[Ishmael (S)] dwelt in the wilderness of Paran”* (Genesis 21:21*) Habakkuk mentioned: “…And the Holy One from Mount Paran. Se-lah. His Glory covered the heaven, and the earth was full of his praise.” (Habakkuk.3:3)* …at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear. Thou didst tresh the heathen in anger. Thou wentest forth for *Salvation* *of thy people*, even *Salvation* *for the ANOINTED; thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Se-lah. (Habk.3:11-13) The scripture mentioned two personalities* to bring “salvation” The Holy One from mount Paran and the anointed (that is the messiah). The Holy One from mount Paran way (message) is everlasting: “He stood and measured the earth (universal message): he beheld and drove asunder the nations…His way are everlasting.”* (Habk.3:6).* That would mean, when Jesus (S) comes the second time he will re establish Muhammad (S) message universally. “Rule with the rod of iron” rod indicates the message: that is to say, Rule as king with a powerful and effective message. That is why both chapters mentioned the same verse that is common. Revelation 19 has to do with war in the mid air. It says here: Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife (the church) hath made herself ready. (Rev. 19:7) And he said unto me, Write, Bless are THEY which are called unto the MARRIAGE SUPPER of the Lamb. And he said unto me, These are the true saying of God. (V.9) And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the FOWLS that flies in the midst of heaven come and gather yourself together unto the SUPPER of the Great God; that you may EAT the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. (Rev.1917-18) We have the saint and the fowls that fly in midst (Air) of heaven, they are called unto the MARRIGE SUPPER to eat of those people. It is all about war, they will destroy them from mid air. It has to do with modern day plane! John described them as “bird in mid of heaven”. Plane has nothing to do with Muhammad (S) but it has to do in modern day war. tnc OK what you asume is that muslims believe what was written in Revelations is true like you you want asume what was written about the so called Muhammad when did you or the muslims made such a wonderfull non corrupted discovery. 1-The revelation to the prophet Mohamed lasted 23 years and the revelation to Saint John was once and finished. 2.The revelation to the prophet Mohamed was from the God though the angel Gabriel (the Soul of Holiness) and the revelation to Saint John had an unknown source. 3.The revelation to Prophet Mohamed explains the logic behind the Oneness of God and the resurrection, the principles of the belief, the laws that regulate the life of a man and the society in Islam, the wisdom from the stories of previous prophets and the stubborn of their troops and the events of the day of resurrection. But the revelation to Saint John was describing a momentarily situation. 4.The revelation to the prophet Mohamed is the Proof of the truth of His mission due to its miraculous text but the revelation to Saint John is the last chapter of the Holy book and represents a point of confusion between the ChristianChurches. 5.The revelation to Prophet Mohamed offers the answers from the God to the aroused inquiries and problems faced by Prophet Mohamed but the revelation to Saint John represent a great inquiry in the Christian belief. 6.The revelation to the Prophet Mohamed is dedicated through a miraculous simple Arabic language but the revelation to Saint John is dedicated through a symbolic Greek language full of mistakes and illogical expressions. 7.The revelation to the Prophet Mohamed identifies the God’s principles governing the Muslim’s life before resurrection, i.e. the earth’s life, and after resurrection but the revelation to Saint John is non-distinguishable. In the Holy Quran, we may find the God’s throne is in a glorious scene, surrounded by Angels and described as follows: [39: 75] And thou wilt see the angels surrounding the Throne (Divine) on all sides, singing Glory and Praise to their Lord. The Decision between them (at Judgment) will be in (perfect) justice, and the call (on all sides) will be, "Praise is to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds!" In the revelation of Saint John we may read such description as follows: 4:5 From the throne came out flashes of lightning and roaring and crashes of thunder. Seven flaming torches, which are the seven spirits of God, were burning in front of the throne 4:6 and in front of the throne was something like a sea of glass, like crystal. In the middle of the throne and around the throne were four living creatures full of eyes in front and in back. 4:7The first living creature was like a lion, the second creature like an ox, the third creature had a face like a man’s, and the fourth creature looked like an eagle flying. 4:8 Each one of the four living creatures had six wings and was full of eyes all around and inside. They never rest day or night, saying: “*Holy Holy Holy is the Lord God, the All-Powerful,* We may read also: 5:6 Then I saw standing in the middle of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the middle of the elders, a Lamb that appeared to have been killed. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 5:7 Then he came and took the scroll from the right hand of the one who seated on the throne, 5:8 and when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders threw themselves to the ground before the Lamb. Each of them had a harp and golden bowls full of incense (which are the prayers of the saints). Why is there such a big difference between the throne that Muhammad discribe and the throne that Saint John discribe of God.
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truthnowcome Senior Member Joined: 05 April 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 683	Posted: 10 May 2009 at 3:52am
	*Originally posted by JOUBERAR* Please do not add extra words into the texts God is talking only to the Jews the descendants of Jakob and not Arabs or muslims . Isa 29:12 Others say, "We can't read it, because we don't know how to read." Isa 29:13 The Lord has said: "These people praise me with their words, but they never really think about me. They worship me by repeating rules made up by humans. Isa 29:14 So once again I will do things that shock and amaze them, and I will destroy the wisdom of those who claim to know and understand." Isa 29:15 You are in for trouble, if you try to hide your plans from the LORD! Or if you think what you do in the dark can't be seen. Isa 29:16 You have it all backwards. A clay dish doesn't say to the potter, "You didn't make me. You don't even know how." Isa 29:17 Soon the forest of Lebanon will become a field with crops, thick as a forest. Isa 29:18 The deaf will be able to hear whatever is read to them; the blind will be freed from a life of darkness. Isa 29:19 The poor and the needy will celebrate and shout because of the LORD, the holy God of Israel. Isa 29:20 All who are cruel and arrogant will be gone forever. Those who live by crime will disappear, Isa 29:21 together with everyone who tells lies in court and keeps innocent people from getting a fair trial. Isa 29:22 The LORD who rescued Abraham has this to say about Jacob's descendants: "They will no longer be ashamed and disgraced. Isa 29:23 When they see how great I have made their nation, they will praise and honor me, the holy God of Israel. Isa 29:24 Everyone who is confused will understand, and all who have complained will obey my teaching." JOUBERER, you are new kid on the block, you have no idea what you are up against! However, it is good that I have some one to engage me in discussion because most Christians stay silent when I’ve posted in the pass! The reasons I’ve add brackets in the text is to make it more clear and shorten my explanation. Now, let me see what you got! Who fulfilled this prophesy? And the vision of all is become unto you as a word of a book that is SEALED. Isaiah.29:11 *(KJV)* …And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, read this I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned. *(Greek:Isaiah.29:12* KJV) No Jews! Secondly, you miss the most important point. I’ll explain for you! That prophesy was never fulfilled and the Jews rejected the Messiah (S) see John 1:11*. Although they were chosen: “O Children of Israel! Call to mind the (special) favors which I bestowed upon you, and I preferred you to all others (of your time period, in the past). (Q.2:47)* Allah (S) took the Covenant from them: …in that they broke the Covenant; that they reject the signs of Allah; that they slew the Messengers in defiance of right…Allah hath set the seal on their hearts for their blasphemy…That they REJECTED FAITH.” (Q.4:155-156) The answer is in Verse 10, read: “For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets (of the Jew’s), and your rulers (of the Jew’s), the seers (of the Jew’s). hath he covered.” (Isaiah 29:10 KJV) God Almighty has poured a spirit of deep sleep and closed the eyes of the Prophets, the rulers and the seer of the Jew’s - Three categories of people. At that Junction Prophet Hood ended for the Jews. Same thing he said in Isaiah.28:2 when the “Mighty Strong One” will come: “But they (Jews) also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; the err in vision, they stumble in judgment. For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean. Whom shall he teach knowledge? And whom shall he make understand doctrine? Them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breast.” Isaiah.28:7-9 Do you know who that “Mighty strong one” is? I’ll deal with that later! Read my friend, the real reason is in verse 13: Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as *this people* draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have remove their heart* far from me, and their fear towards me is taught by the precept of men. (Isaiah.29:13) So:* “For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath *closed your eyes*: the *prophets* (of the Jew’s), and your *rulers* (of the Jew’s), the *seers* (of the Jew’s). hath he covered.” (Isaiah 29:10 KJV) And this book came after him, so it was given to the Comforter. Coming of that book the kingdom of God will be taken away from the Jews: Jesus said unto them (Jews), Did ye never read in the scriptures, the stone* which the builders reject the same is become the head of the corner: This is the Lord’s doings, and it is marvelous in our eyes. (Matt.21:42) What Isaiah 29: 14* said? It said: “Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people, even a marvelous work and wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.” And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall broken: but whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. (Matt.21:44) If you reject Jesus (S) you reject his message, and the stone “represent his message” and it shall bear fruit and be marvelous in our eyes under another nation. Sure, Jesus (S) is not “marvelous in our eyes,” His message does, and whosoever tries to destroy that Message shall not succeed, and where so ever the message goes it will prevail. Jesus (S) said: Matt.21:43 “Therefore say I unto you The kingdom of God shall taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.” That nation is no other than Ishmaelite, Abraham’s (S) seeds. The God of Abraham’s promise to bless Abraham’s son Ishmael and make him a Great nation: “And as for Ishmael…Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and multiply him exceedingly…and I will make a GREAT NATION.”* (Genesis 17:20). This prophesies fulfilled with the arrival of Muhammad (S) who is a descendant of Abraham (S) true his son Ishmael (S). It isn’t true Muhammad (S) message bear fruit and creates a congregation that is marvelous in our eyes? Look at Mecca, the largest congregation on the face of the earth bringing people of all races and colour, the rich and the poor standing side by side shoulder to shoulder worshiping the one true God Allah (S)? In Isaiah 42:16 God Almighty says: “And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in the path that they have not known: I will make darkness light* before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them (Kedarites: Ishmaelite), and not forsake them.” God Almighty did not forget the Ishmaelite he brings them out of darkness into light, he lead them into a path they knew not with the advent of Muhammad (S). The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness sake; he will magnify the (new) law, and make it honorable. (Isaiah 42:21) Who among you will give ear to this? Who will hearken and hear for the time to come? (Isaiah42:23) *Tnc*
	LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!
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truthnowcome Senior Member Joined: 05 April 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 683	Posted: 10 May 2009 at 4:02am
	*Originally posted by JOUBERAR* OK what you asume is that muslims believe what was written in Revelations is true like you you want asume what was written about the so called Muhammad when did you or the muslims made such a wonderfull non corrupted discovery. 1-The revelation to the prophet Mohamed lasted 23 years and the revelation to Saint John was once and finished. 2.The revelation to the prophet Mohamed was from the God though the angel Gabriel (the Soul of Holiness) and the revelation to Saint John had an unknown source. 3.The revelation to Prophet Mohamed explains the logic behind the Oneness of God and the resurrection, the principles of the belief, the laws that regulate the life of a man and the society in Islam, the wisdom from the stories of previous prophets and the stubborn of their troops and the events of the day of resurrection. But the revelation to Saint John was describing a momentarily situation. 4.The revelation to the prophet Mohamed is the Proof of the truth of His mission due to its miraculous text but the revelation to Saint John is the last chapter of the Holy book and represents a point of confusion between the ChristianChurches. 5.The revelation to Prophet Mohamed offers the answers from the God to the aroused inquiries and problems faced by Prophet Mohamed but the revelation to Saint John represent a great inquiry in the Christian belief. 6.The revelation to the Prophet Mohamed is dedicated through a miraculous simple Arabic language but the revelation to Saint John is dedicated through a symbolic Greek language full of mistakes and illogical expressions. 7.The revelation to the Prophet Mohamed identifies the God’s principles governing the Muslim’s life before resurrection, i.e. the earth’s life, and after resurrection but the revelation to Saint John is non-distinguishable. In the Holy Quran, we may find the God’s throne is in a glorious scene, surrounded by Angels and described as follows: [39: 75] And thou wilt see the angels surrounding the Throne (Divine) on all sides, singing Glory and Praise to their Lord. The Decision between them (at Judgment) will be in (perfect) justice, and the call (on all sides) will be, "Praise is to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds!" In the revelation of Saint John we may read such description as follows: 4:5 From the throne came out flashes of lightning and roaring and crashes of thunder. Seven flaming torches, which are the seven spirits of God, were burning in front of the throne 4:6 and in front of the throne was something like a sea of glass, like crystal. In the middle of the throne and around the throne were four living creatures full of eyes in front and in back. 4:7The first living creature was like a lion, the second creature like an ox, the third creature had a face like a man’s, and the fourth creature looked like an eagle flying. 4:8 Each one of the four living creatures had six wings and was full of eyes all around and inside. They never rest day or night, saying: “*Holy Holy Holy is the Lord God, the All-Powerful,* We may read also: 5:6 Then I saw standing in the middle of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the middle of the elders, a Lamb that appeared to have been killed. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 5:7 Then he came and took the scroll from the right hand of the one who seated on the throne, 5:8 and when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders threw themselves to the ground before the Lamb. Each of them had a harp and golden bowls full of incense (which are the prayers of the saints). Why is there such a big difference between the throne that Muhammad discribe and the throne that Saint John discribe of God. It is because the book of revelation is a “vision of prophesy” and the Quran is “reality in heaven!” tnc
	LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!
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Topic: MUHAMMAD & QURAN FORETOLD IN BIBBLE( Topic Closed)
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Revelation 19:11-19 (New International Version)

The Rider on the White Horse

Revelation 19:11-19 (New International Version)

The Rider on the White Horse