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General Islamic Matter
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : General Islamic Matter
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hat2010
 
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Quote hat2010 Replybullet Posted: 12 March 2009 at 10:21pm
Peace everyone and a happy Friday to you (as I hear a local muzhadeen fiddling with his microphone, preparing for the fajr adhan....)

Originally posted by candid_new

Originally posted by Jamal Morelli

Salaam

Here is my two dirhams on the subj:

Western values to me worth exporting:
Green politics, better universities, focus on literacy, freedom to criticize one's own leaders, some shot at health care for the elderly, the orphans, the homeless;
i.e, here in Morocco - if you ain't got the dosh or the connections, you are pretty much screwed, short of individual contributions (zakat) - compare that to the beauty of the NHS!

Developing countries cannot afford Green technology because it is currently too expensive. And it's pointless to have 'better' universities when the overwhelming majority of children don't even have access to primary education. Only the elites can access higher education, who, anyway, fly off to entertain foreign hosts instead of serving their country. Therefore, poorer countries should focus on primary education instead of higher education. Besides, I am surprised you didn't include democracy in the list.


Green politics and green technology aren't the same thing.
"Supporters of Green politics, called Greens, share many ideas with the ecology, conservation, environmental, feminist, and peace movements. In addition to democracy and ecological issues, green politics is concerned with civil liberties, social justice and nonviolence...Green politics also encourages political action on the individual level, such as ethical consumerism..." Boycotting the slow rise of the Marjane (our Wal-Marts) in support of our ancient markets would be a decent example of green politics here.

Your addition of the importance of primary schooling is a critical one. But the comments about the "pointless" addition of universities don't apply to this Muslim country, at least; since Morocco has an available, satisfactory primary education system in place.   A major problem (being violently protested in Rabat as we speak) is the brain drain leading to educated people to escape to the west for their university education.

Regarding primary schooling: Keeping them in school is the biggest problem; dropouts at ten and eleven. And so, a needed culture of literacy like the UK and the US enjoy.

Including democracy...? real democracy? that would be redundant for me to have included, since Green politics is informed by participatory democracy; "emphasizing local, grassroots-level political activity and decision-making."

Regarding the kind of democracy that America enjoys today, I wouldn't offer it to a dog. It seems to consist of voting in to power leaders whose well-being and economic health will depend on coddling undemocratic and oppressive fascist regimes throughout the world as well as relying heavily on destroying democracies in the countries it's survival depends on.



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Quote candid_new Replybullet Posted: 13 March 2009 at 1:31am
Jamal, when was primary education made free in Morocco? According to Stephen P. Heyneman
countries in the Gulf states spent four times more on students in higher education than on students in basic school. Tunisia, Jordan, and Morocco spent correspondingly about 8, 14, and 15 times more on a student in university than on a student in compulsory education. Though it might be argued that this is due to the costs of higher education, governments that spend more than ten times per student in higher education tend to ignore the importance of compulsory education's importance in personal and intellectual development.

Concentration of resources on higher education clearly indicates state's intent on safeguarding the monopoly of elites on education (general population which don't have access to primary education can in no way take advantage of higher education without primary education).
This is usually true for states which are ruled by authoritarian regimes that takes great pleasure in licking the boots of foreign powers who, in turn, wants to keep the country backward and control it with its native 'elite' a** lickers.

Edited by candid_new - 13 March 2009 at 1:32am
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Quote hat2010 Replybullet Posted: 13 March 2009 at 5:10am
Originally posted by candid_new

Jamal, when was primary education made free in Morocco?


I am not aware of a time it wasn't, though I can ask about.

Primary school (arabic: mteedahee) - about a 15 dollar entry cost, then free.

Secondary school (ar: adaddee) -about a twenty dollar entry cost, then free.

Originally posted by candid_new

general population which don't have access to primary education can in no way take advantage of higher education without primary education


Well said. And if that was the problem here, it would be an important point to consider. But one of the main problems to tackle is the cost of what it is worth to a family to keep their kid in school compared to the worth of having them take a job. There are other problems as well concerning the quality, but that is another road of discussion.

Originally posted by candid_new

Concentration of resources on higher education clearly indicates state's intent on safeguarding the monopoly of elites on education


At least over here, there is very little of this concentration of resources on higher education.   Ifrane, Rabat, not much else - but generally everyone who can flee, does. Blows the idea that the educated elites are a monopoly, since they usually leave for good; hence, the hot topic of brain drain.

On the contrary, the Moroccan government's intent to promote it's literacy movement is a very real thing here; our sorely needed inclusion in the EU has been affected by the amount of illiteracy in the population.

Originally posted by candid_new

This is usually true for states which are ruled by authoritarian regimes that takes great pleasure in licking the boots of foreign powers who, in turn, wants to keep the country backward and control it with its native 'elite' a** lickers.


It's interesting to consider the above in the light of the former POTUS having his female lapdog lick Olmert's boots while he gloated over this power during the Gaza ghetto bombing.     

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Quote candid_new Replybullet Posted: 13 March 2009 at 9:48am
On the contrary, the Moroccan government's intent to promote it's literacy movement is a very real thing here; our sorely needed inclusion in the EU has been affected by the amount of illiteracy in the population.

You seriously believe EU will let in a despotic monarchy , that too an Arab one!
The monarchy has very little popular support. It is fully dependent on its foreign clientele for survival. It's focus will always be on entertaining its foreign clientele rather than welfare of its subjects.

Edited by candid_new - 13 March 2009 at 9:50am
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 13 March 2009 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by candid_new

On the contrary, the Moroccan government's intent to promote it's literacy movement is a very real thing here; our sorely needed inclusion in the EU has been affected by the amount of illiteracy in the population.

You seriously believe EU will let in a despotic monarchy , that too an Arab one!
The monarchy has very little popular support. It is fully dependent on its foreign clientele for survival. It's focus will always be on entertaining its foreign clientele rather than welfare of its subjects.
 
You seem very knowledgeable about Morocco, I wonder are you Moroccan, do you live there?
 
My husband is Moroccan and his education was completely free. He has dual degrees in Linguistics and History and is very well educated.
 
There are currently 7 constitutional monarchies in the EU, and Morocco is a constitutional monarchy.
 
Morocco

Morocco submitted an application to join the EU (then EEC) in July 1987, but it was rejected by the European Council later in the year on the grounds that it "did not consider Morocco a European country". Although there are factors such as the developing economy or unresolved border issues with several of its neighbours and the occupation of Western Sahara, a European Union Association Agreement similar to that applied to Tunisia and Algeria is implemented between Morocco and the EU. The Moroccan government argues that a substantial amount of its territory is already part of the European Union, specifically Spanish enclaves in Northern Africa that Morocco says is occupied territory.

"In 2006 EU commissioner for external relations, Benita Ferrero-Waldner declared that "we [EU] already have a very, very close relationship with Morocco, and we're studying giving them even more advanced status."

 



Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 13 March 2009 at 2:38pm
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Quote candid_new Replybullet Posted: 13 March 2009 at 6:10pm
There are currently 7 constitutional monarchies in the EU, and Morocco is a constitutional monarchy.


The monarchies have nominal powers in EU countries, unlike Morocco.

Edited by candid_new - 13 March 2009 at 6:12pm
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Hayfa
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Quote Hayfa Replybullet Posted: 14 March 2009 at 7:43pm
I think also that without 'higher' education people cannot move forward both scientifically and technically. Knowledge of both is moving at a high,rapid rate. Also this knowledge, through the grace of Allah, can help solve many problems, especially with the environment. I saw a building today in the US completely powered by wind, and that is in DC region.

You need to have both, general education and specialized.. like for instance medicine. Not everyone is meant to go to higher education. That is fine. But this knowledge is critical.
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Quote candid_new Replybullet Posted: 14 March 2009 at 7:50pm
Higher education is important but it should not be at the cost of primary education of the masses. Primary education is important for reforming the society. Technological advancement is ineffective without social progress.
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