IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Why a corrupt Bible is a problem for Islam

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JOUBERAR

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Posted: 04 April 2010 at 11:02pm

Originally posted by Mansoor_ali

Quran was revealed in a same manner as it was revealed to other Prophets.And the first complete Surah which was revealed to Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) was Surah Al-Fatiha.

This was the first revelation according to THE encyclopedias the 96 sura that was supposed to be the first book in the Quran, and the Quran was revealed to Muhammad by a angel and not like all the Prophets direct from God.

HOW DO THE AUTHOR PLACE THE FIRST BOOK IN 96 TH SURA.

Muhammad himself described: "Then he took me and squeezed me vehemently and then let me go and repeated the order 'Recite.' 'I cannot recite' said I, and once again he squeezed me and let me 'til I was exhausted. Then he said, 'Recite.' I said, 'I cannot recite.' He squeezed me for a third time and then let me go and said:

Arabic Text: بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمنِ الرَّحِيمِ
Translation: In the name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.

Arabic Text: اقْرَأْ بِاسْمِ رَبِّكَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ
Translation: Read: In the name of thy Lord Who createth Quran: 96:1

Arabic Text: خَلَقَ الْإِنسَانَ مِنْ عَلَقٍ
Translation: Createth man from a clot. Quran: 96:2

Arabic Text: اقْرَأْ وَرَبُّكَ الْأَكْرَمُ
Translation: Read: And thy Lord is the Most Bounteous, Quran: 96:3

Arabic Text: الَّذِي عَلَّمَ بِالْقَلَمِ
Translation: Who teacheth by the pen, Quran: 96:4

Arabic Text: عَلَّمَ الْإِنسَانَ مَا لَمْ يَعْلَمْ
Translation: Teacheth man that which he knew not. Quran: 96:5

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad's_first_revelation

www.ispi-usa.org/muhammad/muhammad8.html

Edited by JOUBERAR - 04 April 2010 at 11:30pm

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JOUBERAR

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Posted: 05 April 2010 at 6:38am

Originally posted by swordofallah

Assalamu laikum,

Douggg ,

Yes everything you said just now..

That,s what im referring to it,s in the bible.

but the mountainous region that was referred to is whats called today the ( golan heights)

Israels military advantage point will be given to them.

because of the river that runs through it from the sea of gallilea Israel will determine that that would seperate the two of them Palestine / israel

then comes a great drought that will empty the sea river there.

and tanks from all over the middle east will come Down on Them ,

at once Israel will be taken between now and the year 2048 ( via the parable of the fig tree time~line)

And i really dont think it will take that long

everything that Israels doing now thats mean is only God giving them enough rope to Hang Themselves.

Ive seen your math on the parable of the Fig tree we Should talk about that sometime, on a later date.

SWORD OF ALLAH ,

Hey my friend the whole Arab nation could not even take Isreal in the six day war, Isreal defeat the whole Arab nation with a small army, why will they wait for for a river to dry up if there is enough bridges for the tanks to drive over,jet fighters and missiles, in the six day war a brigade of tanks could not defeat the Isrealy forces, so what plan of action wil they have next waiting for Iran to produce a nuclear bom to wipe Isreal off the face of the earth.

"The Six Day War". The Arabs call it the "1967 War" or an-Naksah (The Setback). It has been said that for Israel this war was a question of sheer survival; for the Arabs it was one of credibility.

Look such a big force could not even take over Isreal in its infant years for a war that lasted only six days , the Isrealies chrushed them in six days, a short time for Arabs to be defeated what was wrong why did they not resume after the big setback all they have done is talk , talk we will wait for the next time.

Who started the war guess?

•May 7, 1967 -On April 7,1967, Syrians shelled EinGev(NYT)

•May 17, 1967 -PLO pledged to "keep sending commandos into [Israel]" (NYT)

•May 21, 1967 -Egyptian Soldiers in Sinai Desert (NYT)•May 19, 1967 -Egypt Accused of Using Poison Gas in Yemen (L.A. Times)•May 19, 1967 -UAR Deploys Forces Along Israel Border (NYT)•May 20, 1967 -U.N. Troops leave Middle East at Egyptian request (NYT)•May 22, 1967 -PLO to step up attacks in Israel; Cairo calls up 10,000 reserves; Iraq to send aid against Israel (NYT)•May 23, 1967 -Egypt close Gulf of Aqabato Israel

Edited by JOUBERAR - 05 April 2010 at 6:40am

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Mansoor_ali
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Posted: 06 April 2010 at 3:45pm

Originally posted by JOUBERAR

HOW DO THE AUTHOR PLACE THE FIRST BOOK IN 96 TH SURA.

Arabic Text: بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمنِ الرَّحِيمِ
Translation: In the name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.

Arabic Text: اقْرَأْ بِاسْمِ رَبِّكَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ
Translation: Read: In the name of thy Lord Who createth Quran: 96:1

Arabic Text: خَلَقَ الْإِنسَانَ مِنْ عَلَقٍ
Translation: Createth man from a clot. Quran: 96:2

Arabic Text: اقْرَأْ وَرَبُّكَ الْأَكْرَمُ
Translation: Read: And thy Lord is the Most Bounteous, Quran: 96:3

Arabic Text: الَّذِي عَلَّمَ بِالْقَلَمِ
Translation: Who teacheth by the pen, Quran: 96:4

Arabic Text: عَلَّمَ الْإِنسَانَ مَا لَمْ يَعْلَمْ
Translation: Teacheth man that which he knew not. Quran: 96:5

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad's_first_revelation

www.ispi-usa.org/muhammad/muhammad8.html

Yes i agree.but i am saying that first complete Surah was Surah Al-Fatiha which was revealed to Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him).

Nodoubt that first ayat(verses) which were revealed to Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) were first five verses of Surah 96.

But at that time not the entire Surah 96 was revealed.

Visit:Isaiah's vision: He foretold the story of "Surah 96:Al-alak" that is in the Noble Quran about Muhammad:

Isaiah in the Bible foretold the story of "Surah 96:Al-alak" in the Noble Quran which happened to Muhammad and never happened to any other Prophet. It is the story where the Angel Gabriel repeatedly commands the Prophet to read, and the Prophet (i.e. Muhammad) repeatedly replies "I can't read".

Further:God send message through angel Gabril or he directly talk with Prophet but still message is from him.

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swordofallah

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Posted: 06 April 2010 at 8:48pm

Assalamu Alaikum,

well my friend it is not my job to Question ALLAH,s Ability.

And it is not 1967 anymore and it could happen between now and the latest year 2048.

So Many more things could change. MANY THINGS !!!

Such as Russia fighting the United states !And when Russia Attacks they will Attack from the North trying to recapture oil rich Alaska 1st.

it,s hard to teach things on a scholars level to those that have glanced over the bible once in there life.

it,s simply to much to fathom or digest at once.
i have followed the words back to thee original language and meanings.

you will probably laugh but i am going to tell you anyway.

the story of Jacob & Esau in the bible, = jacob is the United States Today .. esau is Russia ,

you will need a strong s concordance start by taking the word esau back to i cant remember off hand if it was hebrew or greek but you will find the root word = RUSS

these people have turned into Nations. !

peace sword of Allah

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JOUBERAR

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Posted: 15 April 2010 at 8:02am

Originally posted by Mansoor_ali

Originally posted by JOUBERAR

HOW DO THE AUTHOR PLACE THE FIRST BOOK IN 96 TH SURA.

Arabic Text: بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمنِ الرَّحِيمِ
Translation: In the name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.

Arabic Text: اقْرَأْ بِاسْمِ رَبِّكَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ
Translation: Read: In the name of thy Lord Who createth Quran: 96:1

Arabic Text: خَلَقَ الْإِنسَانَ مِنْ عَلَقٍ
Translation: Createth man from a clot. Quran: 96:2

Arabic Text: اقْرَأْ وَرَبُّكَ الْأَكْرَمُ
Translation: Read: And thy Lord is the Most Bounteous, Quran: 96:3

Arabic Text: الَّذِي عَلَّمَ بِالْقَلَمِ
Translation: Who teacheth by the pen, Quran: 96:4

Arabic Text: عَلَّمَ الْإِنسَانَ مَا لَمْ يَعْلَمْ
Translation: Teacheth man that which he knew not. Quran: 96:5

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad's_first_revelation

www.ispi-usa.org/muhammad/muhammad8.html

THIS THEN IT MUST STILL BE SEALED AND NOBODY ALLOWED TO READ THE QURAN IS DIRECT CONTRAST WITH THE BIBLE.

Isa 29:11 Now his message is like a sealed letter to you. Some of you say, "We can't read it, because it's sealed."

Isa 29:12 Others say, "We can't read it, because we don't know how to read."

IF YOU READ A BIT FURTHER YOU WILL SEE GOD TALK ABOUT JACOB'S DESCENDANTS AND NOT ISHMAEL'S DESCENDANTS.

Isa 29:22 The LORD who rescued Abraham has this to say about Jacob's descendants: "They will no longer be ashamed and disgraced

Edited by JOUBERAR - 25 April 2010 at 9:28am

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honeto

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Posted: 29 April 2010 at 7:05pm

Jouberar,
it was the Bible that was kept away from common man. Only the priests were the ones that had access to it. It was read and interpreted to common man by the priest. This was one of the main reason for Christians to form Protestant denominations.
In Islam, however, there was no such control to this day. Quran has been available to anyone who wants to read and understand it. It is the Final word of God for mankind and any that seek and benefit from it have that chance.
Hasan

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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JOUBERAR

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Posted: 29 April 2010 at 7:52pm

Originally posted by honeto

Jouberar,
it was the Bible that was kept away from common man. Only the priests were the ones that had access to it. It was read and interpreted to common man by the priest. This was one of the main reason for Christians to form Protestant denominations.
In Islam, however, there was no such control to this day. Quran has been available to anyone who wants to read and understand it. It is the Final word of God for mankind and any that seek and benefit from it have that chance.
Hasan

Are you talking about the jewis priests or Roman Catholic priest in ancient times they hide away a lot of scriptures from the parish and the local community and thus prohibited them from reading or hearing the truth of the bible.

Please Hassan do not try and convince me that the Quran is the word of God may be Muhammad's but realy it is not GOD'S word go and read this attach Pdf file.

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honeto

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Posted: 06 May 2010 at 9:22pm

Jourerar,

niether I ever post someone else's work or research as a proof nor do I take anyone else's. So if you have a proof about the Quran with your own study, post it in appropriate topic not here, and I will take a wack at it. What I wrote above is relative to the topic and a proven fact. You seem to agree with that, and that's it.

Let us move on, so we can take on other issues.

Hasan

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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Topic: Why a corrupt Bible is a problem for Islam
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Author	Message
JOUBERAR Guest Group Joined: 13 March 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 573	Posted: 04 April 2010 at 11:02pm
	*Originally posted by Mansoor_ali* Quran was revealed in a same manner as it was revealed to other Prophets.And the first complete Surah which was revealed to Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) was Surah Al-Fatiha. This was the first revelation according to THE encyclopedias the 96 sura that was supposed to be the first book in the Quran, and the Quran was revealed to Muhammad by a angel and not like all the Prophets direct from God. *HOW DO THE AUTHOR PLACE THE FIRST BOOK IN 96 TH SURA.* Muhammad himself described: "Then he took me and squeezed me vehemently and then let me go and repeated the order 'Recite.' 'I cannot recite' said I, and once again he squeezed me and let me 'til I was exhausted. Then he said, 'Recite.' I said, 'I cannot recite.' He squeezed me for a third time and then let me go and said: Arabic Text: بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمنِ الرَّحِيمِ Translation: In the name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful. Arabic Text: اقْرَأْ بِاسْمِ رَبِّكَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ Translation: Read: In the name of thy Lord Who createth Quran: 96:1 Arabic Text: خَلَقَ الْإِنسَانَ مِنْ عَلَقٍ Translation: Createth man from a clot. Quran: 96:2 Arabic Text: اقْرَأْ وَرَبُّكَ الْأَكْرَمُ Translation: Read: And thy Lord is the Most Bounteous, Quran: 96:3 Arabic Text: الَّذِي عَلَّمَ بِالْقَلَمِ Translation: Who teacheth by the pen, Quran: 96:4 Arabic Text: عَلَّمَ الْإِنسَانَ مَا لَمْ يَعْلَمْ Translation: Teacheth man that which he knew not. Quran: 96:5 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad's_first_revelation www.ispi-usa.org/muhammad/muhammad8.html Edited by JOUBERAR - 04 April 2010 at 11:30pm
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JOUBERAR Guest Group Joined: 13 March 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 573	Posted: 05 April 2010 at 6:38am
	*Originally posted by swordofallah* Assalamu laikum, Douggg , Yes everything you said just now.. That,s what im referring to it,s in the bible. but the mountainous region that was referred to is whats called today the ( golan heights) Israels military advantage point will be given to them. because of the river that runs through it from the sea of gallilea Israel will determine that that would seperate the two of them Palestine / israel then comes a great drought that will empty the sea river there. and tanks from all over the middle east will come Down on Them , at once Israel will be taken between now and the year 2048 ( via the parable of the fig tree time~line) And i really dont think it will take that long everything that Israels doing now thats mean is only God giving them enough rope to Hang Themselves. Ive seen your math on the parable of the Fig tree we Should talk about that sometime, on a later date. SWORD OF ALLAH , Hey my friend the whole Arab nation could not even take Isreal in the six day war, Isreal defeat the whole Arab nation with a small army, why will they wait for for a river to dry up if there is enough bridges for the tanks to drive over,jet fighters and missiles, in the six day war a brigade of tanks could not defeat the Isrealy forces, so what plan of action wil they have next waiting for Iran to produce a nuclear bom to wipe Isreal off the face of the earth. "The Six Day War". The Arabs call it the "1967 War" or an-Naksah (The Setback). It has been said that for Israel this war was a question of sheer survival; for the Arabs it was one of credibility. Look such a big force could not even take over Isreal in its infant years for a war that lasted only six days , the Isrealies chrushed them in six days, a short time for Arabs to be defeated what was wrong why did they not resume after the big setback all they have done is talk , talk we will wait for the next time. Who started the war guess? •May 7, 1967 -On April 7,1967, Syrians shelled EinGev(NYT) •May 17, 1967 -PLO pledged to "keep sending commandos into [Israel]" (NYT) •May 21, 1967 -Egyptian Soldiers in Sinai Desert (NYT)•May 19, 1967 -Egypt Accused of Using Poison Gas in Yemen (L.A. Times)•May 19, 1967 -UAR Deploys Forces Along Israel Border (NYT)•May 20, 1967 -U.N. Troops leave Middle East at Egyptian request (NYT)•May 22, 1967 -PLO to step up attacks in Israel; Cairo calls up 10,000 reserves; Iraq to send aid against Israel (NYT)•May 23, 1967 -Egypt close Gulf of Aqabato Israel Edited by JOUBERAR - 05 April 2010 at 6:40am
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Mansoor_ali Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 25 September 2008 Location: Pakistan Online Status: Offline Posts: 581	Posted: 06 April 2010 at 3:45pm
	*Originally posted by JOUBERAR* This was the first revelation according to THE encyclopedias the 96 sura that was supposed to be the first book in the Quran, and the Quran was revealed to Muhammad by a angel and not like all the Prophets direct from God. *HOW DO THE AUTHOR PLACE THE FIRST BOOK IN 96 TH SURA.* Muhammad himself described: "Then he took me and squeezed me vehemently and then let me go and repeated the order 'Recite.' 'I cannot recite' said I, and once again he squeezed me and let me 'til I was exhausted. Then he said, 'Recite.' I said, 'I cannot recite.' He squeezed me for a third time and then let me go and said: Arabic Text: بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمنِ الرَّحِيمِ Translation: In the name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful. Arabic Text: اقْرَأْ بِاسْمِ رَبِّكَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ Translation: Read: In the name of thy Lord Who createth Quran: 96:1 Arabic Text: خَلَقَ الْإِنسَانَ مِنْ عَلَقٍ Translation: Createth man from a clot. Quran: 96:2 Arabic Text: اقْرَأْ وَرَبُّكَ الْأَكْرَمُ Translation: Read: And thy Lord is the Most Bounteous, Quran: 96:3 Arabic Text: الَّذِي عَلَّمَ بِالْقَلَمِ Translation: Who teacheth by the pen, Quran: 96:4 Arabic Text: عَلَّمَ الْإِنسَانَ مَا لَمْ يَعْلَمْ Translation: Teacheth man that which he knew not. Quran: 96:5 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad's_first_revelation www.ispi-usa.org/muhammad/muhammad8.html Yes i agree.but i am saying that first complete Surah was Surah Al-Fatiha which was revealed to Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him). Nodoubt that first ayat(verses) which were revealed to Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) were first five verses of Surah 96. But at that time not the entire Surah 96 was revealed. Visit:Isaiah's vision: He foretold the story of "Surah 96:Al-alak" that is in the Noble Quran about Muhammad: Isaiah in the Bible foretold the story of "Surah 96:Al-alak" in the Noble Quran which happened to Muhammad and never happened to any other Prophet. It is the story where the Angel Gabriel repeatedly commands the Prophet to read, and the Prophet (i.e. Muhammad) repeatedly replies "I can't read". Further:God send message through angel Gabril or he directly talk with Prophet but still message is from him.
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swordofallah Newbie Joined: 15 March 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 21	Posted: 06 April 2010 at 8:48pm
	Assalamu Alaikum, well my friend it is not my job to Question ALLAH,s Ability. And it is not 1967 anymore and it could happen between now and the latest year 2048. So Many more things could change. MANY THINGS !!! Such as Russia fighting the United states !And when Russia Attacks they will Attack from the North trying to recapture oil rich Alaska 1st. it,s hard to teach things on a scholars level to those that have glanced over the bible once in there life. it,s simply to much to fathom or digest at once. i have followed the words back to thee original language and meanings. you will probably laugh but i am going to tell you anyway. the story of Jacob & Esau in the bible, = jacob is the United States Today .. esau is Russia , you will need a strong s concordance start by taking the word esau back to i cant remember off hand if it was hebrew or greek but you will find the root word = RUSS these people have turned into Nations. ! peace sword of Allah
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JOUBERAR Guest Group Joined: 13 March 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 573	Posted: 15 April 2010 at 8:02am
	*Originally posted by Mansoor_ali* *Originally posted by JOUBERAR* This was the first revelation according to THE encyclopedias the 96 sura that was supposed to be the first book in the Quran, and the Quran was revealed to Muhammad by a angel and not like all the Prophets direct from God. *HOW DO THE AUTHOR PLACE THE FIRST BOOK IN 96 TH SURA.* Muhammad himself described: "Then he took me and squeezed me vehemently and then let me go and repeated the order 'Recite.' 'I cannot recite' said I, and once again he squeezed me and let me 'til I was exhausted. Then he said, 'Recite.' I said, 'I cannot recite.' He squeezed me for a third time and then let me go and said: Arabic Text: بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمنِ الرَّحِيمِ Translation: In the name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful. Arabic Text: اقْرَأْ بِاسْمِ رَبِّكَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ Translation: Read: In the name of thy Lord Who createth Quran: 96:1 Arabic Text: خَلَقَ الْإِنسَانَ مِنْ عَلَقٍ Translation: Createth man from a clot. Quran: 96:2 Arabic Text: اقْرَأْ وَرَبُّكَ الْأَكْرَمُ Translation: Read: And thy Lord is the Most Bounteous, Quran: 96:3 Arabic Text: الَّذِي عَلَّمَ بِالْقَلَمِ Translation: Who teacheth by the pen, Quran: 96:4 Arabic Text: عَلَّمَ الْإِنسَانَ مَا لَمْ يَعْلَمْ Translation: Teacheth man that which he knew not. Quran: 96:5 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad's_first_revelation www.ispi-usa.org/muhammad/muhammad8.html Yes i agree.but i am saying that first complete Surah was Surah Al-Fatiha which was revealed to Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him). Nodoubt that first ayat(verses) which were revealed to Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) were first five verses of Surah 96. But at that time not the entire Surah 96 was revealed. Visit:Isaiah's vision: He foretold the story of "Surah 96:Al-alak" that is in the Noble Quran about Muhammad: Isaiah in the Bible foretold the story of "Surah 96:Al-alak" in the Noble Quran which happened to Muhammad and never happened to any other Prophet. It is the story where the Angel Gabriel repeatedly commands the Prophet to read, and the Prophet (i.e. Muhammad) repeatedly replies "I can't read". Further:God send message through angel Gabril or he directly talk with Prophet but still message is from him. *THIS THEN IT MUST STILL BE SEALED AND NOBODY ALLOWED TO READ THE QURAN IS DIRECT CONTRAST WITH THE BIBLE.* Isa 29:11 Now his message is like a sealed letter to you. Some of you say, "We can't read it, because it's sealed." Isa 29:12 Others say, "We can't read it, because we don't know how to read." *IF YOU READ A BIT FURTHER YOU WILL SEE GOD TALK ABOUT JACOB'S DESCENDANTS AND NOT ISHMAEL'S DESCENDANTS.* Isa 29:22 The LORD who rescued Abraham has this to say about Jacob's descendants: "They will no longer be ashamed and disgraced Edited by JOUBERAR - 25 April 2010 at 9:28am
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 29 April 2010 at 7:05pm
	Jouberar, it was the Bible that was kept away from common man. Only the priests were the ones that had access to it. It was read and interpreted to common man by the priest. This was one of the main reason for Christians to form Protestant denominations. In Islam, however, there was no such control to this day. Quran has been available to anyone who wants to read and understand it. It is the Final word of God for mankind and any that seek and benefit from it have that chance. Hasan
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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JOUBERAR Guest Group Joined: 13 March 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 573	Posted: 29 April 2010 at 7:52pm
	*Originally posted by honeto* Jouberar, it was the Bible that was kept away from common man. Only the priests were the ones that had access to it. It was read and interpreted to common man by the priest. This was one of the main reason for Christians to form Protestant denominations. In Islam, however, there was no such control to this day. Quran has been available to anyone who wants to read and understand it. It is the Final word of God for mankind and any that seek and benefit from it have that chance. Hasan Are you talking about the jewis priests or Roman Catholic priest in ancient times they hide away a lot of scriptures from the parish and the local community and thus prohibited them from reading or hearing the truth of the bible. Please Hassan do not try and convince me that the Quran is the word of God may be Muhammad's but realy it is not GOD'S word go and read this attach Pdf file.
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 06 May 2010 at 9:22pm
	Jourerar, niether I ever post someone else's work or research as a proof nor do I take anyone else's. So if you have a proof about the Quran with your own study, post it in appropriate topic not here, and I will take a wack at it. What I wrote above is relative to the topic and a proven fact. You seem to agree with that, and that's it. Let us move on, so we can take on other issues. Hasan
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
	IP Logged