Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: 60 Questions for the Christian Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 11
Author Message
Sign*Reader
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 November 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3352
Quote Sign*Reader Replybullet Posted: 15 August 2009 at 11:48am
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah

[Jouberar]it is totally wrong for a christian to go war,                                                                                                         [Akhe Abdullah]Christianity and Fighting.The missionaries say,"But the spirit of Christianity condemns fighting altogether."I do not wish to pause here for investigating the truth,or lack of it,of such a claim.The history of Christianity,however,is a legitamate witness in this matter and so is the history of Islam.From the dawn of Christianity until today every country of the world has been soaked with blood in the name of Jesus Christ.The Romans and the Byzantines of old as well as European peoples of modern times are guilty of shedding blood in religious causes.The Crusades were launched and their fires fanned by Christians,not by Muslims.For hundred of years,one army after another rolled out of Europe in direction of the Muslims Orient to fight,to destroy and to shed blood.In every case,the popes who claimed to be the vicars of Jesus Christ,bleesed and encouraged these armies and hurried them to Jerusalem and other destinations.Were all these popes heretics? Was their Christianity spurious? Or was every one of them a pretender,an ignoramus,unaware that Christianity absolutely condemns fighting?The missionaries rejoin,"Those were the middle Ages,ages f darkness, unfit as evidence agaianst Christianity."If this is an argument on which they pin some hope,let us then turn to "the twentieth century of the highest human civilization."This century has indeed seen the same darkness as did the Middle Ages,Lord Allenby,representing the allied forces of England,France,Italy,Romania,and America,stopped in Jerusalem in 1918 after his conquest of that city toward the end of the first World War and said:"Today the Crusades have come to an end."

Akhe SalaamClap for telling this bible thumper and a schmuck some facts...He is such a hypocrite in ignoring the murderous history of the European Xtian killers, first amongst themselves then the other unarmed non Europeans... What do they smoke down under? Doesn't he know the so called Christianity is nothing but a Eurocentric cult based on cognitive dissonance and lubricated  with booze and sex!


Edited by Sign*Reader - 15 August 2009 at 12:28pm
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
IP IP Logged
honeto
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 March 2008
Online Status: Online
Posts: 2428
Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 15 August 2009 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by kapalu

Greetings:

I will attempt to deal with all 60 questions. However not all at the same time.

I will begin with the first 14 dealing with the nature of God according to the christian view.

Now first remember that Christianity is seen as an extension of Judaism by true Christians.

Now ancient Israel believed that there was only ONE God. Take a look at Deuteronomy 4:35; 6:4, Isaiah 45:5, Zech 14:9.

The new testament makes the same claims. (please take a look at  mark 12:29-32, 1 cor 8:4-6, Eph 4:4-6; 1 Tim 2:5)

However the emphasis on one God does not contradict the Christian concept of the triune God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).

The texts simply affirms that there is no pantheon of various gods or deities.

So then how do Christians arrive to the conclusion that the ONE God is Father Son and Spirit?

Well lets begin in the Torah( Old testament):

Well the Old Testement even though it does not explicitly tech that God is triune, it alludes to a plurality within the Godhead.

Gen 1:26 - Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

Gen 3:22 - Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”

Gen 11:7 - Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.”

So clearly the Prophet Moses is alluding to the plurality of God. Why someone talk to himself and refer to himself as US, OUR, WE.

Now many people would say that this type of language was pretty standard for royalty. For example, Queen victoria or maybe elizabeth 1 (i cant remember right now) was well known for referring to herself in the plural. Famous remarks like -"We are not pleased"..... and the like.

There is a problem with this though. There is not any evidence whatsoever of any ancient figure refering to themselves as such, in the the ancient world; furthermore in the middle east, north africa or the mediterranean.

Such use of language is fairly recent not more that 500 years old and originating in northern europe.

So when someone says WE, US, OUR in ancient hebrew texts.... It means exactly that. That this is a conversation between 2 or more individuals.

Other Text to Look at:

Now Various references distinguish the Spirit of God from God.

Gen 1:1-3 -  1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was[a] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.

It would seem here that God and the Spirit of God are two separate entities.

Some references not only refer to the Spirit, but include a Third Person in God's work. look at the texts below.

Isa 48:16 (read it yourself) This chapter has prophetic significance regarding the coming Messiah (who Christians believe was Jesus)

The truth is that i hate to give these small reference text. When reading the hebrew scriptures, CONTEXT is important. I would prefer that anyone reading this read the entire books of Genesis and Exedous. Things start to fit together and you see more clearly the allusion to a plural God.

Wow..... that was long !!

Okay so I will stop here for now. My next post will attempt to answer in detail the first 14 questions.

This post will form part of the premises used.

Notice these references are from the Law(Torah) and the Prophets (old testament)

Now these are just a handful of references alluding to the plurality of God. There are many more.

Well see you next time then.
 
Kapalu,
you have just pointed out some problem areas of the OT text with those quotes, and I remember pointing some of those out here at the forum in the past. They show nothing but furhter inconsistancies of the OT.
 
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
IP IP Logged
JOUBERAR
 
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 March 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 573
Quote JOUBERAR Replybullet Posted: 15 August 2009 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah

Originally posted by JOUBERAR

Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah

Many Christians,have attacked the person of Muhammad and attributed to him the most unbecoming epithets there by giving vent to their resentment and sowing the seeds of hatred and hostility.Despite the commonly held view that the Crusades have long been finished and forgotten,fanatic Christian antagonism still continues to rage against Muhammed.The present situation has not changed except for the worse.Moved by the same fanaticism,the missionaries resort to immoral and depraved means in theirstruggle against Islam.(THE LIFE OF MUHAMMED xxxv Haykal)copy right 1976
 

Who ordered the crusades the Pope or Christ the muslims have no back bone thats why always seek refuge by means of the crusade while the muslim were main cause that started the crusade after they raided and stole Jerusalem from the Jews and there excuse for the wrong doing in islam is look at the crusade look what the christians have done, but they are not looking back and seen what the muslims have done no that was right because Allah permited it.

The crusades was wrong and that was not an order God or Christ.

In the eyes of God,Jesus and real christian and in me point of view it is totally wrong for a christian to go war, our war is not against "flesh blood" and the church ministers gave the wrong education to thier members christian must take part in any form of war or even think of murder, war is murder and Jesus said we must not even hate your brother and love those who hate you, war is absolutely taboo for Christians.
The First Principles of the Two Religions:(Haykal) Muslims rejoicing at the victory of Heraclius and his Christian armies was great.Despite the many controversies that had taken place between the followers of Muhammad and those who believed in Jesus,their friendly and fraternal relationships continued to be strong throughout the life of the Prophet.
 
Who was Heraclius he was never mentioned in the bible.
IP IP Logged
JOUBERAR
 
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 March 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 573
Quote JOUBERAR Replybullet Posted: 15 August 2009 at 9:23pm
Originally posted by Sign*Reader

Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah

[Jouberar]it is totally wrong for a christian to go war,                                                                                                         [Akhe Abdullah]Christianity and Fighting.The missionaries say,"But the spirit of Christianity condemns fighting altogether."I do not wish to pause here for investigating the truth,or lack of it,of such a claim.The history of Christianity,however,is a legitamate witness in this matter and so is the history of Islam.From the dawn of Christianity until today every country of the world has been soaked with blood in the name of Jesus Christ.The Romans and the Byzantines of old as well as European peoples of modern times are guilty of shedding blood in religious causes.The Crusades were launched and their fires fanned by Christians,not by Muslims.For hundred of years,one army after another rolled out of Europe in direction of the Muslims Orient to fight,to destroy and to shed blood.In every case,the popes who claimed to be the vicars of Jesus Christ,bleesed and encouraged these armies and hurried them to Jerusalem and other destinations.Were all these popes heretics? Was their Christianity spurious? Or was every one of them a pretender,an ignoramus,unaware that Christianity absolutely condemns fighting?The missionaries rejoin,"Those were the middle Ages,ages f darkness, unfit as evidence agaianst Christianity."If this is an argument on which they pin some hope,let us then turn to "the twentieth century of the highest human civilization."This century has indeed seen the same darkness as did the Middle Ages,Lord Allenby,representing the allied forces of England,France,Italy,Romania,and America,stopped in Jerusalem in 1918 after his conquest of that city toward the end of the first World War and said:"Today the Crusades have come to an end."

Akhe SalaamClap for telling this bible thumper and a schmuck some facts...He is such a hypocrite in ignoring the murderous history of the European Xtian killers, first amongst themselves then the other unarmed non Europeans... What do they smoke down under? Doesn't he know the so called Christianity is nothing but a Eurocentric cult based on cognitive dissonance and lubricated  with booze and sex!
 
A sinner is a sinner even they  are Christians but are not real Christians they care less than nothing you can talk them in anyway it easier to confront a satanist than to confront a false Christians.
 
Since the RKC AND THE PROTESTANTS and the church with self apointed leaders had no godly clue what to teach the people that want to be Christians but the bible was top secret only available for the clercy man in the 1500 Jonh Calvin or Jean Cauvin a french  and  humanist lawyer, he broke from the Roman Catholic Church around 1530. After religious tensions provoked a violent uprising against Protestants in France, Calvin fled to Basel, Switzerland, where in 1536 he published the first edition of his seminal work Institutes of the Christian Religion.
 
This reformed haven't changed much except for everybody to had access to the bible and study it thoroughly but they haven't practiced it they haven't discovered the seriousness of been a Christian, thats why there were so many wars brother killing brother the world is in a mess it is just getting worse and worse you name it corrupt goverment  to the mafia. 
IP IP Logged
Akhe Abdullah
Male Islam
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 November 2008
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1252
Quote Akhe Abdullah Replybullet Posted: 17 August 2009 at 11:50am
Thank you for proving my point Christianity and Fighting.Why point fingers at Catholic and Protestants they are all Christians.
IP IP Logged
kapalu
 
Starter
Starter


Joined: 11 June 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5
Quote kapalu Replybullet Posted: 04 September 2009 at 1:03pm

So Tell me what are those problems?

Sorry I did not get your previous comments.
IP IP Logged
honeto
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 March 2008
Online Status: Online
Posts: 2428
Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 05 September 2009 at 1:07pm
Hi Kapalu,
well some of those prblem areas are as follows:
You quoted: "Gen 3:22 - Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”"
The above verse show a God, who is not aware nor confident nor sovereign because He is shown as the insecure one, who seems to be worried with what the man has done and can do by "take also of the tree of life, and live forever."
 
Also, in the same book, Genesis 3, there are some more problems as well. I will address just a couple:16 To the woman HE said,
       "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
       with pain you will give birth to children.
       Your desire will be for your husband,
       and he will rule over you."  
All this because of the blame I hear my kids repeat fortunetely rarely: ' she did it, she started it, no she did it"
12 The man said, "The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it."

 13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?"
      The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."

More problems: 14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,
       "Cursed are you above all the livestock
       and all the wild animals!
       You will crawl on your belly
       and you will eat dust
       all the days of your life.

 15 And I will put enmity
       between you and the woman,
       and between your offspring
and hers;
       he will crush
your head,
       and you will strike his heel."

All of these are just from one page!
Honetly, if you are unable to pick those problems, please let me know and I will go over them one by one. We must not just read over, we must weigh and grasp every word in order to figure things out and eventually benefit from it! if that's our goal, otherwise there seem nothing wrong with anything!
 
We should seek truth, forgiveness, and guidence from God, the All knower.
 
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 05 September 2009 at 1:17pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
IP IP Logged
IssaEl999
 
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar

Joined: 10 March 2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 336
Quote IssaEl999 Replybullet Posted: 19 March 2011 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by truthnowcome

Originally posted by honeto

beleiver,
I am wondering what you are trying to say when you posted Acts 9?
Please elaborate rather than just posting a quote, what are you proving with those verses?
Hasan
 
salaam!

Believer forgot! Paul saw a light and herd a voice! Who voice? I guess he think is Jesus (S) because the voice says so. “And he (Paul) said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. Matthew24:5  

 

Nothing new, believers too do hear voices also...yes he does! How we know? The Ghost does speak to him: "he shall teach you things to come" John16

tnc

 
 
 
 
 The Self Appointed Apostle ,Turn From A Strong Opposer Od Jesus To One Of His Disciples ? That's A Good Question And The Answer Is Simple ! , Paul '' The Self Appointed Apostle , ( Never ) Was A Disciple Of Jesus ! How Do I Know ? According To Paul , '' The Self Appointed Apostle ,Jesus Chose Him As His Instrument For Carrying His Teachings To The Gentiles Who Were Not Of The House Of Israel . ( Acts 9 ; 15 - 16 ) .

The Deceiver Paul Acclaimed Vision Is The Only Evidence The Deceiver Paul Could Produce For His Bid For The Leadership Of The New Church The Deceiver Would Raise . No Wonder The Jews Were Highly Skeptical About The Whole Claim And Would Not Listen To Him . Let's Take A Look In The Bible Where The Deceiver Paul CONTRADICTS HIMSELF THREE TIMES ,

This Is The Behavior Of A LIAR , A LIAR Has To Repeat His LIE Two Or More Times With Each Verse Differing From The Next Until He Ultimately Prove Himself A LIAR . He Eventually Reveals The Truth He Was Trying To Hide All Along .

Contradiction One ;
Acts 9 ; 4 - 7 , And I Quote ; 4 And he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" 5 And he said, "Who are you, Lord?" And he said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting; 6 but rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do." 7 The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.


In The Above Quote The Deceiver Paul , First Says The HE Alone Fell To The Ground ( Earth ) And Then He Proceeds To Say That The Men Who Journeyed With Him Stood Speechless , Hearing A Voice , BUT Seeing No Man , We See In Acts 22 ; 7 - 9 That Paul The Deceiver Was About To Be Killed By The People Of The City Of Caesarea For Preaching To The Jews Amongst The GENTILES That They Should Forsake Moses And Not Circumcise Their Children Or Follow Their Customs .

The Deceiver Paul Was Saved By The Soldiers And Centurions Who Took Him To The Castle Unto The Chief Priest And There The Deceiver Paul Says

Contradiction Two ;
Acts 22; 7 - 9 , And I Quote ; 7 The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one. 8 Saul arose from the ground; and when his eyes were opened, he could see nothing; so they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus. 9 And for three days he was without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

Now , In This Quote The Deceiver Paul Say HE Alone Fell To The Ground . He Proceeds To Say That The MEN Who Were With Him SAW The Light , But HEARD Not The Voice Of Him Who Spoke . But He Had Just Said In Acts 9 ; 4 - 7 , '' Those Who Journeyed With Him , Heard A Voice , But Saw Not A Man ! ''

We Now Go To Acts 26 ; 13 - 14 To Find The Third Contradiction . At This Point , The Deceiver Paul Is Defending Himself Before King Agrippa ;

Contradiction Three ;
Acts 26 ; 13 - 14 , And I Quote ; 13 At midday, O king, I saw on the way a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining round me and those who journeyed with me. 14 And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice saying to me in the Hebrew language, 'Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It hurts you to kick against the sticks .

The Deceiver Paul Just Said In Acts 9 ; 4 - 7 , And 22 ; 7 - 9 That ONLY He Fell To The Ground !!!! After We Listen To The Deceiver Paul Contradictions , It Makes It Very Difficult To Believe That The Deceiver Paul Ever Had A Vision . The Deceiver Paul Is A LIAR And His Own Word Confirm It !!!!! Romans 3 ; 7 , And I Quote ; 7 But if through my falsehood God's truthfulness abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?

Having The Behavior Of A Liar , As Usual , Paul '' The Self Appointed Apostle , Continued To Prove Himself A Liarr . In None Of The Other Quotes Had He Said That Jesus Spoke To Him In The Hebrew Tongue ! However , In The Following Quote , ( Acts 26 ; 16 ) , Paul '' The Self Appointed Apostle , Says That Jesus Appeared To Him To Make Him A Minister . Is This Why Paul '' The Self Appointed Apostle , Though He Was Supposed To Be A Disciple ? Acts 26 ; 14 - 16 . ......



Edited by IssaEl999 - 19 March 2011 at 4:25pm
El's Holy Qur'aan , States In Chapter 17 ; 81 , '' And Say ; Truth Has ( Now ) Arrived , And Falsehood Perished ; For Falsehood Is ( By Its Nature ) Bound To Perish (81 ) .
IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 11
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com