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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
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Shasta'sAunt
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 02 March 2009 at 4:18pm

"When Christianity appeared women were attracted to it. Within the Christian sub-culture, women held a much higher status than did women throughout the Greco-Roman world. Women were recognized by Christianity as equal to men, children of God with the same supernatural destiny. The Christian prohibition of polygamy, divorce, birth control, abortion and infanticide contributed to the well-being of women substantially, securing them dignity and rights within both Church and state. One effect of this higher status was to increase the number of Christian women, which in turn led to a superior fertility rate for Christians, another factor in the growth of the faith. Christians influenced Constantine and later emperors to enact laws on behalf of women. These laws and attitudes were carried to other lands as Christianity grew."

If Jesus and early Christians considered women equal to men, then please answer the following:

1. How many of Jesus' hand-picked Apostles were women?
 
2. How many of Jesus' female followers were given the ability to perform miracles in his name after his death?
 
3. How many books of the New Testamant are written by women?
 
4. How did Mary Magdalene come to be known as a prostitute throughout early Christian teachings?
 
5. Why was The Gospel of Mary totally dismissed by the church?
 
6. How many women were present at the Council of Nicene?
 
 
 
 
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Apollos
 
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Quote Apollos Replybullet Posted: 02 March 2009 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by honeto

 Apollo,
yes, just like others I am waiting your reply to the issue I raised. One things is sure Apollo, you are not just going to have more knowledge about Islam, but about your own belief, thanks to your coming on this forum. 
Hasan
 
Hasan,
 
I have read the posts again and I guess I assumed your question was obsolete now. That is - some people here had pointed out that the debate on this thread was sounding like a "my religion's better than yours". I agreed and thought others did too. I regret that I set up the discussion like I did and as I have said before, I was wrong in connecting too much of some countries practices with Islam.
 
Nonetheless, you asked the below question and I assume you still want an answer:
 
I have a question for you, what rights a woman has against an abusive husband. And what is the status of divorce in Chrsitianity. I need refrances from the Bible with your reply.
 

The short answer is  - a Christian woman can and should get away from physical abuse and can expect the Church to help her. Scripture passages that support this are:

 

Col 3:19  Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.

 

Eph 5:25  Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Eph 5:26  That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Eph 5:27  That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Eph 5:28  So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

Eph 5:29  For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

 

1Co 6:19  What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

(among other things it is wrong to allow something or someone to abuse our bodies).


If the husband is a believer, and his abuse has not escalated to criminal proportions, a woman can also appeal to the principles of (Matthew 18:15-18) and ask the church to intervene in her behalf.

 

If the husband is not a believer and/or won’t respond to correction from the Church, the woman can and should leave the husband for her own protection.

 

Apollos



Edited by Apollos - 02 March 2009 at 8:28pm
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Hayfa
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Quote Hayfa Replybullet Posted: 03 March 2009 at 1:04pm

If the husband is a believer, and his abuse has not escalated to criminal proportions, a woman can also appeal to the principles of (Matthew 18:15-18) and ask the church to intervene in her behalf.

you know so little about Shariah law Apollo.. that  is why people study jurisprudence and they have judges.. called family court.

In Islam a woman can leave her husband if he is abusing her. She  can leave him if he does not do his duties, if he tells her to work, if he does not support her in ways she is accustomed.. if my husband does not pray and won't i can leave him.. hello

Since the 'church' really comes down to changing laws,which it has done, are they the laws that Jesus sent down? oops those were changed by Paul... hmmm

and Apollo are you here to learn or just to throw out stuff. Every Muslim here does not blame Christianity to the poor position of women in "Christian countries" why do you keep going on about it?

abuse is a problem with human failings not the core of a  religion.
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Quote Apollos Replybullet Posted: 03 March 2009 at 7:44pm
Originally posted by Hayfa


If the husband is a believer, and his abuse has not escalated to criminal proportions, a woman can also appeal to the principles of (Matthew 18:15-18) and ask the church to intervene in her behalf.

you know so little about Shariah law Apollo.. that  is why people study jurisprudence and they have judges.. called family court.

In Islam a woman can leave her husband if he is abusing her. She  can leave him if he does not do his duties, if he tells her to work, if he does not support her in ways she is accustomed.. if my husband does not pray and won't i can leave him.. hello

Since the 'church' really comes down to changing laws,which it has done, are they the laws that Jesus sent down? oops those were changed by Paul... hmmm

and Apollo are you here to learn or just to throw out stuff. Every Muslim here does not blame Christianity to the poor position of women in "Christian countries" why do you keep going on about it?

abuse is a problem with human failings not the core of a  religion.
 
Hayfa,
 
Your reply seems to imply that I criticized a Muslim believer or teaching. In that I was only describing Christian Scripture and beliefs to answer a previous question , I don't see why you say I don't know Sharia. I wasn't trying to describe Sharia. You ask if I am here to learn but this post was my answer to Hasan's question. What is your point?
 
Apollos


Edited by Apollos - 03 March 2009 at 7:47pm
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 04 March 2009 at 4:38pm
Originally posted by Apollos

Originally posted by honeto

 Apollo,
yes, just like others I am waiting your reply to the issue I raised. One things is sure Apollo, you are not just going to have more knowledge about Islam, but about your own belief, thanks to your coming on this forum. 
Hasan
 
Hasan,
 
I have read the posts again and I guess I assumed your question was obsolete now. That is - some people here had pointed out that the debate on this thread was sounding like a "my religion's better than yours". I agreed and thought others did too. I regret that I set up the discussion like I did and as I have said before, I was wrong in connecting too much of some countries practices with Islam.
 
Nonetheless, you asked the below question and I assume you still want an answer:
 
I have a question for you, what rights a woman has against an abusive husband. And what is the status of divorce in Chrsitianity. I need refrances from the Bible with your reply.
 

The short answer is  - a Christian woman can and should get away from physical abuse and can expect the Church to help her. Scripture passages that support this are:

 

Col 3:19  Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.

 

Eph 5:25  Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Eph 5:26  That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Eph 5:27  That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Eph 5:28  So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

Eph 5:29  For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

 

1Co 6:19  What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

(among other things it is wrong to allow something or someone to abuse our bodies).


If the husband is a believer, and his abuse has not escalated to criminal proportions, a woman can also appeal to the principles of (Matthew 18:15-18) and ask the church to intervene in her behalf.

 

If the husband is not a believer and/or won’t respond to correction from the Church, the woman can and should leave the husband for her own protection.

 

Apollos

 
Apollo,
I believe debate is healthy as long as the purpose is the benefit from it and of course be based on mutual respect and truth.
Reading above reminded me of an old saying of the east that traslates to something like: think before tossing trash toward the moon, as it will land on yourself!
 
Anyway Apollo, my question was for practical reasons. I know that God teaches us to be just and kind toward each other. but I wanted to know was: what is the practical command that the Bible gives when an abuse do occur, or simply if a man is just disfunctional, what rights and protection there are for woman?
I see here in the West we see marriages dissolved and spouses changes more often than cars, now that's the other extreme, but what do devout Christians look upto as a devine ruling toward the cases I have mentioned above.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 04 March 2009 at 4:46pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Apollos Replybullet Posted: 04 March 2009 at 8:10pm
Hasan,
 
Did I answer your question? I can't tell from your remarks.
 
Apollos
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 05 March 2009 at 3:52pm
Apollo,
Are you saying there isn't anything to offer from the Bible to my question?
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 05 March 2009 at 3:55pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Apollos
 
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Quote Apollos Replybullet Posted: 05 March 2009 at 6:30pm
Originally posted by honeto

Apollo,
Are you saying there isn't anything to offer from the Bible to my question?
Hasan
 
Hasan,
 
No I am saying - I answered a question on what Christians believe and why they believe this concerning an abusive husband. I provided an answer and the Scrptural basis. Then Hayfa responded as if - it seemed to me - that I was somehow critcizing Sharia with my answer. So I posted a question asking what he meant. Now you act as though I didn't answer the original question. Do you see the 4 Scriptural references I provided?
 
Apollos
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