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Message

Originally posted by JOUBERAR

Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt

Good point Hayfa. 
I have stated on numerous threads over and over, where was the sacrifice? If Jesus were God, then he sacrificed nothing. Nothing could really hurt him, he didn't really die, and after his little sojourn to earth he immediately returned to heaven. If Jesus were a man and could actually die with no hope of resurrection or being "god" again, and allowed himself to be killed, actually gave up his one and only life, then  THAT would have been a sacrifice. 

Aunty you said you were a Christian before have you realy then at that time loved God with your whole heart and sole have you really put in a big effort to be a Christian or were your live only a one hour or a two hour a week Christian,then you step over to the Muslims and you practice Islam now full time.

Why did Jesus say all this words then.
I Am the bread of live
I Am the Light of the World
I Am the Door
I Am the Good Shepherd
I Am the Resurrection and the Life
I Am the Way
I am the Vine

I Am the Bread of Life 

John 6:35  Jesus replied: “I am the bread that gives life! No one who comes to me will ever be hungry. No one who has faith in me will ever be thirsty
               Jesus is God’s answer to man’s death (The Bread of Life).
      Jesus is God’s answer to man’s hunger (will never be hungry).
          Jesus is God’s answer to man’s thirst (will never be thirsty).

I Am the Light of the World 
John 8:12   Once again Jesus spoke to the people. This time he said, "I am the light for the world!  Follow me, and you won't be walking in the dark.  You will have the light that gives life."

I Am the Door  
John 10:7  Then said Jesus unto them again, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.”

I Am the Good Shepherd  
John 10:14   “I am the good shepherd. I know my sheep, and they know me.”

I Am the Resurrection and the Life 
John 11:25   Jesus said unto her, “I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believe th in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.”

  I Am the Way   
John 14:6   Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except through me."
I am the Vine   
John 15:1   "I am the true vine, and my Father is the Gardner."

Why did Jesus said that he is the true vine, He said all this above words why then if it is  like he said why will God then send a substitute to demolish all his protocols.

Why haven't Muhammad said any of this. 

Jouberar,
I see you probably did not read the Quran, otherwise you will know answer to what you wrote. All of God's prophets served the same purpose what you mentioned for Jesus (may God's peace be upon him).  God has told humanity in the Quran that those who follow the prophet and the message sent through Him will enter Pradise. Those who will deny, him and the message sent through Him and turn to in worship toward others, or deny God will be the loosers in the End and a great panelty is waiting for them.  Abraham taught that, Moses taught the same, David taught the same, and Jesus taught the same. 
As far as Jesus being, vine,  bread, lamb, sheep or blood, those are human utterances, for which those who utter them will give account. In fact everything a person say apart from what they do and intend, they will give account on the judgement day.
You forgot to mention that Jesus was a servant of God, a prophet of God, and a man of God.

Hasan

Edited by honeto - 06 April 2009 at 5:24pm

Author	Message
honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 06 April 2009 at 5:16pm
	*Originally posted by JOUBERAR* *Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt* Good point Hayfa. I have stated on numerous threads over and over, where was the sacrifice? If Jesus were God, then he sacrificed nothing. Nothing could really hurt him, he didn't really die, and after his little sojourn to earth he immediately returned to heaven. If Jesus were a man and could actually die with no hope of resurrection or being "god" again, and allowed himself to be killed, actually gave up his one and only life, then THAT would have been a sacrifice. Aunty you said you were a Christian before have you realy then at that time loved God with your whole heart and sole have you really put in a big effort to be a Christian or were your live only a one hour or a two hour a week Christian,then you step over to the Muslims and you practice Islam now full time. Why did Jesus say all this words then. I Am the bread of live I Am the Light of the World I Am the Door I Am the Good Shepherd I Am the Resurrection and the Life I Am the Way I am the Vine I Am the Bread of Life John 6:35 Jesus replied: “I am the bread that gives life! No one who comes to me will ever be hungry. No one who has faith in me will ever be thirsty Jesus is God’s answer to man’s death (The Bread of Life). Jesus is God’s answer to man’s hunger (will never be hungry). Jesus is God’s answer to man’s thirst (will never be thirsty). I Am the Light of the World John 8:12 Once again Jesus spoke to the people. This time he said, "I am the light for the world! Follow me, and you won't be walking in the dark. You will have the light that gives life." I Am the Door John 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.” I Am the Good Shepherd John 10:14 “I am the good shepherd. I know my sheep, and they know me.” I Am the Resurrection and the Life John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, “I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believe th in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.” I Am the Way John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." I am the Vine John 15:1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the Gardner." Why did Jesus said that he is the true vine, He said all this above words why then if it is like he said why will God then send a substitute to demolish all his protocols. Why haven't Muhammad said any of this. Jouberar, I see you probably did not read the Quran, otherwise you will know answer to what you wrote. All of God's prophets served the same purpose what you mentioned for Jesus (may God's peace be upon him). God has told humanity in the Quran that those who follow the prophet and the message sent through Him will enter Pradise. Those who will deny, him and the message sent through Him and turn to in worship toward others, or deny God will be the loosers in the End and a great panelty is waiting for them. Abraham taught that, Moses taught the same, David taught the same, and Jesus taught the same. As far as Jesus being, vine, bread, lamb, sheep or blood, those are human utterances, for which those who utter them will give account. In fact everything a person say apart from what they do and intend, they will give account on the judgement day. You forgot to mention that Jesus was a servant of God, a prophet of God, and a man of God. Hasan Edited by honeto - 06 April 2009 at 5:24pm
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Shasta'sAunt Female Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1930	Posted: 09 April 2009 at 9:36am
	"You forget that Jesus willingly gave His life for us." If Jesus is dead, then who is that alive and sitting at the right hand side of God? Of course this brings up the question of if Jesus is God then how is he sitting at his right hand, but that's a different thread.
	“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.” Eleanor Roosevelt
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believer Guest Group Joined: 08 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1397	Posted: 09 April 2009 at 5:41pm
	Jamal- "Whether intended as defamatory or it is just uninformed, the above is just Wrong. " Not intended to be anything other then an observation. The system was set up by GOD very early in man's history. You can read about it in the Torah.
	John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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believer Guest Group Joined: 08 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1397	Posted: 09 April 2009 at 5:57pm
	LOL! Shasta- you didn't pay attention in Sunday School did you. Jesus' human form died, His soul went to preach to the spirits in prision/hell. Jesus' human form was then resurrected. He appeared to many- remember doubting Thomas? Acts 1 ⁹After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. Right hand of GOD means Jesus has the authority to be our judge. He is not literally sitting in a chair next to GOD who is sitting on some throne. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are spirit and everywhere. What kind of body will we have in heaven? Is it the same one? A spritual body? 1 Corinthians 15 ⁴²So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; ⁴³it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; ⁴⁴it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
	John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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hat2010 Senior Member Joined: 10 October 2006 Location: Neutral Zone Online Status: Offline Posts: 562	Posted: 10 April 2009 at 5:07am
	*Originally posted by believer* Why the need for a sacrifice- a payment is needed to compensate. In Old Testament times a perfect animal was sacrificed. Even Muslims carry out this ritual sacrifice even though they have no idea why, they have forgotten!! *Originally posted by believer* Jamal- "Whether intended as defamatory or it is just uninformed, the above is just Wrong. " Not intended to be anything other then an observation. The system was set up by GOD very early in man's history. You can read about it in the Torah. Then you are mistaken in your observation. Your observation is skewed. In a nutshell: Wrong. The Torah is not considered the whole of Judaism by anyone, also it not the only book which informs Christianity or the only Hebrew text referred back to in Islam. Within "Prophets" ‘To obey is better than sacrifice’. 1 Samuel 15.22 ‘“To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices to me?” says the Lord. “I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fed cattle. I do not delight in the blood of bulls or of lambs or goats. … Bring no more futile sacrifices; incense is an abomination to me.”’ Isaiah 1.11-12 ‘For I desire mercy not sacrifice, and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.’ Hosea 6.6. A general malaise towards blood sacrifices also evolved over time. To repeat from the Holy Quran, which nearly echoes the above verses: (Qur'an 22:37: "It is not their meat nor their blood, that reaches God. It is your piety that reaches Him...").
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believer Guest Group Joined: 08 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1397	Posted: 10 April 2009 at 5:24am
	Yes, absolutely it is better to obey then sacrific!! Problem is we don't obey so GOD set up the sacrific system for us.
	John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Shasta'sAunt Female Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1930	Posted: 10 April 2009 at 7:38am
	*Originally posted by believer* LOL! Shasta- you didn't pay attention in Sunday School did you. Jesus' human form died, His soul went to preach to the spirits in prision/hell. Jesus' human form was then resurrected. He appeared to many- remember doubting Thomas? *Acts 1* ⁹After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. Right hand of GOD means Jesus has the authority to be our judge. He is not literally sitting in a chair next to GOD who is sitting on some throne. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are spirit and everywhere. What kind of body will we have in heaven? Is it the same one? A spritual body? 1 Corinthians 15 ⁴²So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; ⁴³it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; ⁴⁴it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. That doesn't really answer my question. Even you are saying that his physical form was up walking around in three days, so Jesus didn't really DIE, did he?
	“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.” Eleanor Roosevelt
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Doo-bop Senior Member Joined: 04 March 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 531	Posted: 10 April 2009 at 3:42pm
	*Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt* *Originally posted by believer* LOL! Shasta- you didn't pay attention in Sunday School did you. Jesus' human form died, His soul went to preach to the spirits in prision/hell. Jesus' human form was then resurrected. He appeared to many- remember doubting Thomas? *Acts 1* ⁹After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. Right hand of GOD means Jesus has the authority to be our judge. He is not literally sitting in a chair next to GOD who is sitting on some throne. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are spirit and everywhere. What kind of body will we have in heaven? Is it the same one? A spritual body? 1 Corinthians 15 ⁴²So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; ⁴³it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; ⁴⁴it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. That doesn't really answer my question. Even you are saying that his physical form was up walking around in three days, so Jesus didn't really DIE, did he? But some day your body will be raised up, at the resurrection. Does that mean you won't really have died? You really seem to be implying there's no such a thing as death................
	"Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world" - John the Baptizer (John 1:29)
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