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Interfaith Dialogue
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JOUBERAR
 
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bullet Posted: 18 March 2009 at 11:50pm
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt

"All authority  on heaven and earth has been given to Christ why after 500 years do we need someone Else's authority." 
 
According to the Bible all authority has not been given to Jesus:
 
Matthew 24: 35"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

 36"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.


My words will not pass away.
 
You have made it quit clear his words will not pass away according to the quran it is God's word passed away it is only lunatics that will think in period of 500 years God's word will pass away but the so called last one can withstand 1500 year without corruption
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bullet Posted: 19 March 2009 at 8:40am
Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi

This means that Jesus is the active sustainer of the universe.  You can thank Him that everything doesn't just fly into bits.  As the active force in creation, He willed the universe into existence. 
 
He could not even rescue himself from being tied up on the cross, how can you say that he willed the universe in existence?
 
His death is so pitiful, how could you associate him with Majesty that only belongs to Allah The Creator of the whole universe?
 
Another hypocrite that says the same that like the Jews 2000 years ago if your the son of God why can't you save yourself and you say his death is pitifully Jesus newed what was his mission and his mission is to save world and still is you didn't even have the slightest clue what your mission is then you want judge the holy son of God, you don't even know if you gonna live for 5 minutes or year.
 
RemeMber you also can't save yourself.

How did Jesus know so much? He knew He was the Son of God; He knew He was the Messiah; He knew what His mission was; He knew the names of people He had never met; He selected eleven disciples without a mistake; He always seemed to be at the right place at the right time; He chose to heal certain individuals in a crowd, such as the paralytic at the pool of Bethesda; He was able to heal at a distance; He seemed to have a foreknowledge of His death, burial, and resurrection. Where did He get all this information and divine powers? Well, some would say that He was born with it, after all, He was God. However, He spent nine months in Mary's womb as any other normal human fetus; He was born as a helpless babe; He was born with a blank memory bank; and He had to learn to eat, to crawl, to walk, to talk, and to reason just as any other infant. But we know that at twelve years of age He knew His mission, so how did He know?

 

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Shasta'sAunt
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bullet Posted: 19 March 2009 at 3:08pm
Originally posted by JOUBERAR

Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt

"All authority  on heaven and earth has been given to Christ why after 500 years do we need someone Else's authority." 
 
According to the Bible all authority has not been given to Jesus:
 
Matthew 24: 35"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

 36"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.


My words will not pass away.
 
You have made it quit clear his words will not pass away according to the quran it is God's word passed away it is only lunatics that will think in period of 500 years God's word will pass away but the so called last one can withstand 1500 year without corruption
 
Are you speaking English?
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt
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JOUBERAR
 
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bullet Posted: 19 March 2009 at 10:48pm
Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by JOUBERAR

Originally posted by _ALI_

Salam JOUBERAR
If Jesus was only if prophet as quran stated it then he also could have sinned like all the other prophets
Unlike Christianity, in Islam, the prophets do not knowingly commit sins. They may commit small mistake like Jonah did but they are then immediately corrected by God.
why then call him the messiah or wait for his second coming if was only a prophet.
A messiah does not mean a person who is sinless. It only means a deliverer. And like I said, all prophets including Jesus Christ did not knowingly commit sins. And for a second coming, you don't have to be a god. You can be a prophet and come back if God wills. And he will come back to defeat Dajjal (antiChrist) and to correct the Christians. As the Bible says
Mathew 7:22-23
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Peace
 You tell me prophets never sinned get your facts together and so any prophet can be a messiah.
Why then have dajjal got his own heaven and own hell if God is the only one who have a heaven and a hell he is only one who got the power to through someone in to hell.
 
  The deity of Christ is the real stumbling block for many in accepting Christianity as true.  It is here that Jews, Moslems, Unitarians, Jehovah's Witnesses, and many others come to grief.  It is from misbelief or at least inadequate belief about the incarnation that difficulties at other points of the gospel story usually spring.
  
         Following Christ is more than just following in the footsteps of a great man.  To be a Christian means accepting the absolute uniqueness of His person.  Jesus is different from any other person who has ever lived.
What do we know about the present activities of Christ?  First we know that all authority on heaven and earth has been given to Christ (Matt 28:18).  This means that Jesus is the active sustainer of the universe.  You can thank Him that everything doesn't just fly into bits.  As the active force in creation, He willed the universe into existence.  Now the force of His will keeps the natural laws which we call physics, chemistry, and biology etc in effect.
  
         Secondly, Jesus is the head of His Church (Eph 1:22, Col 1:18).  The Church is the body of Christ because all saved persons are saved into Christ.  In John 16:13 we are told that the Spirit teaches what He hears.  The Spirit is present in heaven before Christ to hear the many things Christ has yet to tell us (John 16:12-15).  Christ has the powe to take us the many and form us into one body of many members, the Church.
  
         Thirdly, Jesus is the giver of Spiritual gifts through the ministry of the Holy Spirit.  Christ has both called and equipped us for the service of the Church and worship of Him.  While some gifts are universal in nature some are given only to certain people (Rom 12:3-8,
I Cor 12:4-11).  Christ has a plan for each one of us according to His purpose (Phil 2:13, Eph 2:10, Jn 10:10).  We should not reject what God has given us the ability to do.  We need to recognize that often the reasons for the way He has equipped us us not apparent to us.
  
         Fourthly, Jesus intercedes for us, this He began to do before He left earth (John 17:1-26)  This means that Jesus is praying for you now, today.  Because He is all powerful He is able to turn His attention to all of us individually.  He will continue this ministry as long as any of His people are on earth (John 17:20).  This present ministry of Christ was given to us in the twenty-third Psalm by David.  It is because He continually has us in His mind, that our salvation is secure if we are born again to Christ.
  
         Fifthly, Jesus is our advocate before the judgment throne of God.  If it were not for the advocacy of Christ in heaven our sins as Christians would destroy the fellowship we have with God.  What is necessary on our part is to be sorry for and confess our sin to Him (1 John 1:9).  Jesus pleads our cause before God, and the sufficiency of His death to pay for the penalty that is rightfully ours.
  
         Sixthly, Christ is building.  He has gone ahead of us into heaven and is preparing a place for us to reside (John 14:1-3).  Jesus has taken personal interest in our future abode!
  
         Seventhly, Jesus is expecting to return for us.  He is preparing to return at a time known only the Father (Mark 13:32).  We do not know when this time will occur, but there will be enough time to gather the harvest.
 
All authourity  on heaven and earth has been given to Christ why after 500 years do we need someone elses authority. 
 
 
Jouberar,
welcome to this Islamic website, a source for guidance for you and for all who seek it in truth. I can guarentee you that you will not only learn more about Islam but you will also discover the truth about your own belief that you have overlooked so far.
Most of what you wrote has already been discussed and answered in detail in various posts on various threads.
It is useless to agrue about others, if they sinned or not when we ourselves deny the sins we do on a regular basis and think no one has seen them, just a bit disbelief on our own part. As a Muslim we acknowledge that its only ourself that we will answer for when accountablity/ the Day of Judgement comes. As you don't believe so far on accountablity 'cause you belief Jesus has paid for your sins, you may not observe the same standards when it comes to truth vs falsehood.
There is no doubt for a true believer who submits to God alone, that:
God is One God.
God is not a male nor a female, not limited to a body form.
Everything and everyone other than God is His creation, none can become equal to God nor over power God.
God is not born, nor God dies.
God does not have sons, daughters, mother or a father, nor a wife nor a husband.
God does not have any needs nor wants.
God does not get tired, nor God grieves.
For God, nothing is difficult, nor anything out of God's reach, nor things go out of God's control.
God knows All, even the deepest secrects of the hearts.
God grants Power to whom God wills.
God does not incarnate into other forms, nor God take shape of one of His creatures whether be a human, an elephant, a monkey, a tree or so on.
God is Merciful and Forgiving, God Loves those who Obey and seek God's pleasure. For them God has said to have prepared Forgiveness for their mistakes and a reward beyond measure.
 
 
Now to answer to some of what you wrote, as I said most of it has already been discussed but I will briefly address some of what you wrote. You may have a good intention when writing them but you need to know truth about them, and not just repeating what you've heard from others.
 
You wrote: First we know that all authority on heaven and earth has been given to Christ (Matt 28:18). 
Now that raises at leat two issues for me, 1- if you note the word "given" is the key. Given by who, of course who else can give, God Almighty. So there is a clear distinction between who can give or grant.
Now 2-"all authority" that seems a bit exaguration since we see verse in the Bible that show how much authority he was given for example when he said, "John 5:30 "By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me." Jesus according to this verse seeks pleasure of one who sent him, just like I as a Muslim do, seek pleasure of my maker, all of God's prophets were sent for this purpose to practice and teach to seek the pleasure of their maker.
 
Then further you wrote:
"Fourthly, Jesus intercedes for us, this He began to do before He left earth (John 17:1-26)  This means that Jesus is praying for you now, today.  Because He is all powerful He is able to turn His attention to all of us individually.  He will continue this ministry as long as any of His people are on earth (John 17:20).  "
You missed one point that is more common than that: "Jesus died for your sins" a line I hear more often from preachers. They quote  John 2:1-2 "... he himself (Jesus) is the propitaion for our sins, and not for our sins only but also for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD"
Now contradictory to the above quote there are those i.e. Matthew 12:36-37 36But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.   37For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."
 
Now to close I may add this verse from your trusted source that shows that to whom you call God, indead was a servant of God and shared the same and Only God as a Muslim I worship and serve to as well:
John 20:17 "'........I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God."
John 14:28 " ........the Father is greater than I"
 
And here is the confirmed truth:
The Quran 3:59 "Verily, in the sight of God, the nature of jesus is as the nature of Adam, whom He created out of dust and then said unto him, "Be" - and he is"
 
Hasan
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
What you want tell me it is not possible for God to have a son or take up a human form do you think it will be a disgrace for God to have son.
You believe in things simply because you are born as a muslim and you are force to believe in the quran.
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bullet Posted: 21 March 2009 at 5:15pm

Human bodies are mortal.

GOD"S soul that He threw away to Mary to become Jesus, GOD's WORD incarnate did not die.  Remember your Quran says so.  His soul went to prison/Hell to speak to the spirits there.
 
Muslims limit Allah's abilities.
 
Funny thing because their Quran does not!
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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bullet Posted: 22 March 2009 at 12:19am
Originally posted by believer

Human bodies are mortal.

GOD"S soul that He threw away to Mary to become Jesus, GOD's WORD incarnate did not die.  Remember your Quran says so.  His soul went to prison/Hell to speak to the spirits there.
 
Muslims limit Allah's abilities.
 
Funny thing because their Quran does not!
 
Are you actually reading The Quran? The Quran does not state that God threw His soul away, that God's soul became Jesus, or that Jesus is God's Word incarnate, or that jesus went to Hell to speak to the souls there.
 
Believer, you have brought all of these inaccuracies up numerous times and they have been refuted numerous times. Why keep it up?  
 
3:45 (Y. Ali) Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.
 
4:171 (Y. Ali) O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
 
 
3:59 (Y. Ali) The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.
 
5:116 (Y. Ali) And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.
 
19:35 (Y. Ali) It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is.
 
Jesus is A WORD from Allah, the Word is BE and it is. Just as Adam and Eve were created, BE, and they were.
 
You know, there are a number of Christians here who don't believe that Jesus is God. Perhaps you should be preaching to them instead of trying to rewrite The Quran.
 
 


Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 22 March 2009 at 12:20am
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
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bullet Posted: 22 March 2009 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt

 
Jesus is A WORD from Allah, the Word is BE and it is. Just as Adam and Eve were created, BE, and they were.
 
You know, there are a number of Christians here who don't believe that Jesus is God. Perhaps you should be preaching to them instead of trying to rewrite The Quran.
 
 


"They do blaspheme who say: God is a third of three: for there is no god except One God........."

No Mary, no Jesus, no Holy Spirit, no Hindu trinity (Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva), and no lies!  All forms of trinity or any plurality of GOD Almighty are false and lies!  Mary, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are nothing but Honored creations from GOD Almighty with specific duties.

Adam was created in a much more complex Miracle than Jesus.  At least Jesus had to be formed as a fetus in a woman's womb.  Yes she was virgin when GOD Almighty caused her to get pregnant, but nonetheless, Jesus had to be formed as a fetus in a human womb like you and me.

Adam on the other hand and Eve also were created in a much more complex Miracle.  Adam was created vitually out of nothing. This Miracle is far greater than Jesus' birth.

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bullet Posted: 22 March 2009 at 3:51pm
Originally posted by _ALI_

Salam JOUBERAR

If Jesus was only if prophet as quran stated it then he also could have sinned like all the other prophets

Unlike Christianity, in Islam, the prophets do not knowingly commit sins. They may commit small mistake like Jonah did but they are then immediately corrected by God.

why then call him the messiah or wait for his second coming if was only a prophet.

A messiah does not mean a person who is sinless. It only means a deliverer. And like I said, all prophets including Jesus Christ did not knowingly commit sins. And for a second coming, you don't have to be a god. You can be a prophet and come back if God wills. And he will come back to defeat Dajjal (antiChrist) and to correct the Christians. As the Bible says

Mathew 7:22-23

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Peace
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