Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Where Islam & Christian Agree and Differ(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 64 Next >>
Author Message
Eaisha
Female  
Starter
Starter
Avatar

Joined: 06 March 2009
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9
bullet Posted: 06 March 2009 at 2:35pm
I always like to find the things both Islam and Christianity have in common - rather than exploit the differences.
 
For example, both Muslims & Christians have a firm common bind in:
 
  1. Angel Jibril (Gabriel) [2;97-98]
  2. Virgin birth of Isa (Jesus)  [21;91]
  3. Old & New Testament Prophets  [4;163] [ 38;45]
  4. Messiahship of Isa (Jesus)     [3;45] [4;157] . . . . .
  5. Belief in the Dajjal (Antichrist)
  6. Many end-times prophecies

But Number 4 seems to be the best place to begin taking stock.

 
 
 
IP IP Logged
believer
 
Guest Group
Guest Group


Joined: 08 January 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1397
bullet Posted: 07 March 2009 at 5:39am
Anyone know - verse 3:55 are the words I am, I am really used twice?
 
Literal:
When God said: "You Jesus I am, I am making you die and raising you to Me and purifying you from those who disbelieved, and making those who followed you above those who disbelieved to the Resurrection Day, then to Me (is) your return, so I judge/rule between you in what, you were in it differing .
 
 
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
IP IP Logged
Eaisha
Female  
Starter
Starter
Avatar

Joined: 06 March 2009
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9
bullet Posted: 13 March 2009 at 10:54am

“Behold! The Angels said:  O Mary!  God giveth thee tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and the Hereafter And of (the company of) those nearest to God”. 

 
(Imran 3:45)
IP IP Logged
JOUBERAR
 
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 March 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 573
bullet Posted: 13 March 2009 at 6:03pm
Originally posted by _ALI_

Salam Believer

Kalimatuhu:  God's Word (Ali Imran  3:45 )

I have a small disagreement. Kalimatuhu means word from Him (i.e God), not Word from God. The capitalization you used for word implies that the word here is God, which is untrue according to Islam. Jesus was God's word, not God's Word.

Ruhunminhu:  Spirit proceeding from Him (Al Nesa  4:171 )

Al-Masih:  The Messiah (Al -Nesa 4.157, 171 )

Completely agree here. Also I would also quote the reference you gave which clears up the fact that Jesus was not the son of God.  

004.171 O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

Al-Qur'an, 004.171 (An-Nisa [Women])

Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910

Rahma:  Mercy from God to mankind (Maryam 19:21)

All prophets were mercy from God, including Jesus

 Zakiyyan:  Gift of a holy or sinless son (Maryam 19:19)

Actually Zakiyyan only means holy or pure. "Ghulaman Zakiyyan" is holy son. But whose son is it? Let's read the reference you gave

019.016 وَاذْكُرْ فِي الْكِتَابِ مَرْيَمَ إِذِ انْتَبَذَتْ مِنْ أَهْلِهَا مَكَانًا شَرْقِيًّا
019.016 Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East.

019.017 فَاتَّخَذَتْ مِنْ دُونِهِمْ حِجَابًا فَأَرْسَلْنَا إِلَيْهَا رُوحَنَا فَتَمَثَّلَ لَهَا بَشَرًا سَوِيًّا
019.017 She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.

019.018 قَالَتْ إِنِّي أَعُوذُ بِالرَّحْمَنِ مِنْكَ إِنْ كُنْتَ تَقِيًّا
019.018 She said: "I seek refuge from thee to (Allah) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah."

019.019 قَالَ إِنَّمَا أَنَا رَسُولُ رَبِّكِ لأهَبَ لَكِ غُلامًا زَكِيًّا
019.019 He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.

Al-Qur'an, 019.016-019 (Maryam [Mary])

Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910

So in the context, the angel is telling Mary that you will have a pure son. The son here is for Mary, not for God.

Salam:  Peace on him (Maryam 19:33 )

Mina al-Saliheen: Upright or righteous shall he be

Nabiyy:  Prophet (Al-Ankaboot 29:30 )

Rasul: Envoy, messenger (Al - Nesa 4:157, Al-Ma’-edah 5:75 )

Ibn Maryam :  son of Mary , Jesus son of Mary (Ali-Imran 3:45)

Min al-muqareeab: Those who are close to God  ( Ali Imran 3:45 )

Wadjih:  worthy of esteem in this world and the next (Ali Imran  3:45)

Mubarak:  Blessed ,a source of benefit for others ( Maryam  19:31. )

Qawl al-haqq:  Sure word   ( Maryam 19:34.)

Abd Allah: Servant of God (Maryam 19.30)

Aya:  A sign unto mankind (Maryam 19:21 ;3:50 ;43:61)

Shahid:  A witness on Judgement day ( Al-Nesa 4:159)

 Mathal:  A Parable or example (Al-Zukhruf 43:57)

 

I agree with all this. Though the reference 29:30 you gave is incorrect.

IIm:  Knowledge of the hour (Al-Zukhruf 43:61)

Ilm literally means knowledge, but in the context, “Ilm usaat” means sign of the hour (i.e the day of judgement), meaning Jesus is the sign of the day of judgement.

 

043.061 وَإِنَّهُ لَعِلْمٌ لِلسَّاعَةِ فَلا تَمْتَرُنَّ بِهَا وَاتَّبِعُونِ هَذَا صِرَاطٌ مُسْتَقِيمٌ

043.061 And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.

 

Al-Qur'an, 043.061 (Az-Zukhruf [Ornaments of Gold, Luxury])

 

Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910

Peace

 
If Jesus was only if prophet as quran stated it then he also could have sinned like all the other prophets why then call him the messiah or wait for his second coming if was only a prophet.
IP IP Logged
_ALI_
Male  Islam
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 17 February 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 76
bullet Posted: 15 March 2009 at 10:10am
Salam believer
Sorry for the delay. I was a bit busy.
OK so in arabic we really don't know if it is GOD's WORD or GOD's word, but we do know that no other on the face of earth had it thrown away to them.
 
Same with GOD's soul,  none other had it literally thrown away to them:

15:29

Literal:So when/if I straightened him, and I blew in him from My Soul/Sprit , so fall/land/come to him prostrating.

32:9

Literal:Then He straightened Him, and He blew in Him from His Soul/Spirit , and He made/put for you the hearing/listening, and the eye sights/knowledge, and the hearts , little (is) what you thank/be grateful.

38:72

Literal:So if I straightened him, and I blew in him from My Soul/Spirit , so fall/come to him prostrating.

So you say Jesus' soul was thrown away from God. God blew His soul into Adam. Hence Jesus is more pure. That is a bit ridiculous. If you read carefully, 4:171 does not say God threw His soul. It says God threw a soul. And with Adam, it is specifically mentioned that God blew His soul into Adam. Surely Adam is a better candidate for God's son. Furthermore, there is only one translation which mentions the "throwing", other translations do not even mention it. They just say that Jesus was given a soul/spirit from God. While reading Quran, you should consult many translations, don't just stick with one.

In reality, whether His soul or a soul, God does not have a son and we Muslims do not argue about which prophet is better.
Mary's son,  GOD"S SON that wasn't my point, but the fact that Jesus was pure and no other "man" has ever been.

 

Now John the Baptist did have the tool of purification in baptism, but he was not pure:

According to Quran, Jesus was pure along with many other prophets

002.130 وَمَنْ يَرْغَبُ عَنْ مِلَّةِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ إِلا مَنْ سَفِهَ نَفْسَهُ وَلَقَدِ اصْطَفَيْنَاهُ فِي الدُّنْيَا وَإِنَّهُ فِي الآخِرَةِ لَمِنَ الصَّالِحِينَ
002.130 And who turns away from the religion of Abraham but such as debase their souls with folly? Him We chose and rendered pure in this world: And he will be in the Hereafter in the ranks of the Righteous.
Al-Qur'an, 002.130 (Al-Baqara [The Cow])
Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910
003.038 هُنَالِكَ دَعَا زَكَرِيَّا رَبَّهُ قَالَ رَبِّ هَبْ لِي مِنْ لَدُنْكَ ذُرِّيَّةً طَيِّبَةً إِنَّكَ سَمِيعُ الدُّعَاءِ
003.038 There did Zakariya pray to his Lord, saying: "O my Lord! Grant unto me from Thee a progeny that is pure: for Thou art He that heareth prayer!
Al-Qur'an, 003.038 (Aal-E-Imran [The Family of Imran])
Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910
Zakariya is the father of John the Baptist who is actually referred to as pure.
yes you are correct it is
 
43:61
Literal:
And that he/it truly is knowledge (E) to the Resurrection/Time of Resurrection/Hour, so do not doubt/argue (E) with it, and follow Me, that (is a) straight/direct road/way.
 
So even with the literal they have added:
E) to the Resurrection/Time of Resurrection/Hour, so do not doubt/argue (E)
 
Are there any literal with nothing added translations out there?
The arabic word used is Saa' literally meaning moment/hour. The moment you add "time of resurrection", it no longer remains literal. The translator probably added time of Resurrection for clarification. But my original point was, you cannot take everything literal especially in the case of arabic. The literal translation you gave was that:He (Jesus) is knowledge. Does that make any sense? Shouldn't Jesus be man (according to us) or god (according to you). Hence the literal translation "He is knowledge" does not make sense in English. To demonstrate this verse, the translators translate
And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour
or
He is a means of the knowledge of Resurrection
Ali - in verse 3:55 are the words I am, I am really used twice?
 
Literal:
When God said: "You Jesus I am, I am making you die and raising you to Me and purifying you from those who disbelieved, and making those who followed you above those who disbelieved to the Resurrection Day, then to Me (is) your return, so I judge/rule between you in what, you were in it differing .
The arabic and transliteration is
003.055 إِذْ قَالَ اللَّهُ يَا عِيسَى إِنِّي مُتَوَفِّيكَ وَرَافِعُكَ إِلَيَّ وَمُطَهِّرُكَ مِنَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَجَاعِلُ الَّذِينَ اتَّبَعُوكَ فَوْقَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا إِلَى يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ ثُمَّ إِلَيَّ مَرْجِعُكُمْ فَأَحْكُمُ بَيْنَكُمْ فِيمَا كُنْتُمْ فِيهِ تَخْتَلِفُونَ
003.055 I[th] q[a]la All[a]hu y[a] AAees[a] innee mutawaffeeka war[a]fiAAuka ilayya wamu[t]ahhiruka mina alla[th]eena kafaroo waj[a]AAilu alla[th]eena ittabaAAooka fawqa alla[th]eena kafaroo il[a] yawmi alqiy[a]mati thumma ilayya marjiAAukum faa[h]kumu baynakum feem[a] kuntum feehi takhtalifoon(a)
Al-Qur'an, 003.055 (Aal-E-Imran [The Family of Imran])
Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910
The word INNEE translated has been translated "I am" in the literal one you gave and it is translated as "I will" in many other translations. As you can see from the arabic/transliteration, it is only used once.
Peace 
IP IP Logged
_ALI_
Male  Islam
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 17 February 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 76
bullet Posted: 15 March 2009 at 10:28am
Salam JOUBERAR
If Jesus was only if prophet as quran stated it then he also could have sinned like all the other prophets
Unlike Christianity, in Islam, the prophets do not knowingly commit sins. They may commit small mistake like Jonah did but they are then immediately corrected by God.
why then call him the messiah or wait for his second coming if was only a prophet.
A messiah does not mean a person who is sinless. It only means a deliverer. And like I said, all prophets including Jesus Christ did not knowingly commit sins. And for a second coming, you don't have to be a god. You can be a prophet and come back if God wills. And he will come back to defeat Dajjal (antiChrist) and to correct the Christians. As the Bible says
Mathew 7:22-23
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Peace
IP IP Logged
JOUBERAR
 
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 March 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 573
bullet Posted: 15 March 2009 at 11:21am
Originally posted by _ALI_

Salam JOUBERAR
If Jesus was only if prophet as quran stated it then he also could have sinned like all the other prophets
Unlike Christianity, in Islam, the prophets do not knowingly commit sins. They may commit small mistake like Jonah did but they are then immediately corrected by God.
why then call him the messiah or wait for his second coming if was only a prophet.
A messiah does not mean a person who is sinless. It only means a deliverer. And like I said, all prophets including Jesus Christ did not knowingly commit sins. And for a second coming, you don't have to be a god. You can be a prophet and come back if God wills. And he will come back to defeat Dajjal (antiChrist) and to correct the Christians. As the Bible says
Mathew 7:22-23
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Peace
 You tell me prophets never sinned get your facts together and so any prophet can be a messiah.
Why then have dajjal got his own heaven and own hell if God is the only one who have a heaven and a hell he is only one who got the power to through someone in to hell.
 
  The deity of Christ is the real stumbling block for many in accepting Christianity as true.  It is here that Jews, Moslems, Unitarians, Jehovah's Witnesses, and many others come to grief.  It is from misbelief or at least inadequate belief about the incarnation that difficulties at other points of the gospel story usually spring.
  
         Following Christ is more than just following in the footsteps of a great man.  To be a Christian means accepting the absolute uniqueness of His person.  Jesus is different from any other person who has ever lived.
What do we know about the present activities of Christ?  First we know that all authority on heaven and earth has been given to Christ (Matt 28:18).  This means that Jesus is the active sustainer of the universe.  You can thank Him that everything doesn't just fly into bits.  As the active force in creation, He willed the universe into existence.  Now the force of His will keeps the natural laws which we call physics, chemistry, and biology etc in effect.
  
         Secondly, Jesus is the head of His Church (Eph 1:22, Col 1:18).  The Church is the body of Christ because all saved persons are saved into Christ.  In John 16:13 we are told that the Spirit teaches what He hears.  The Spirit is present in heaven before Christ to hear the many things Christ has yet to tell us (John 16:12-15).  Christ has the powe to take us the many and form us into one body of many members, the Church.
  
         Thirdly, Jesus is the giver of Spiritual gifts through the ministry of the Holy Spirit.  Christ has both called and equipped us for the service of the Church and worship of Him.  While some gifts are universal in nature some are given only to certain people (Rom 12:3-8,
I Cor 12:4-11).  Christ has a plan for each one of us according to His purpose (Phil 2:13, Eph 2:10, Jn 10:10).  We should not reject what God has given us the ability to do.  We need to recognize that often the reasons for the way He has equipped us us not apparent to us.
  
         Fourthly, Jesus intercedes for us, this He began to do before He left earth (John 17:1-26)  This means that Jesus is praying for you now, today.  Because He is all powerful He is able to turn His attention to all of us individually.  He will continue this ministry as long as any of His people are on earth (John 17:20).  This present ministry of Christ was given to us in the twenty-third Psalm by David.  It is because He continually has us in His mind, that our salvation is secure if we are born again to Christ.
  
         Fifthly, Jesus is our advocate before the judgment throne of God.  If it were not for the advocacy of Christ in heaven our sins as Christians would destroy the fellowship we have with God.  What is necessary on our part is to be sorry for and confess our sin to Him (1 John 1:9).  Jesus pleads our cause before God, and the sufficiency of His death to pay for the penalty that is rightfully ours.
  
         Sixthly, Christ is building.  He has gone ahead of us into heaven and is preparing a place for us to reside (John 14:1-3).  Jesus has taken personal interest in our future abode!
  
         Seventhly, Jesus is expecting to return for us.  He is preparing to return at a time known only the Father (Mark 13:32).  We do not know when this time will occur, but there will be enough time to gather the harvest.
 
All authourity  on heaven and earth has been given to Christ why after 500 years do we need someone elses authority. 
 
IP IP Logged
Nur_Ilahi
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 January 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1031
bullet Posted: 15 March 2009 at 10:09pm
This means that Jesus is the active sustainer of the universe.  You can thank Him that everything doesn't just fly into bits.  As the active force in creation, He willed the universe into existence. 
 
He could not even rescue himself from being tied up on the cross, how can you say that he willed the universe in existence?
 
His death is so pitiful, how could you associate him with Majesty that only belongs to Allah The Creator of the whole universe?
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 64 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com