Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Where Islam & Christian Agree and Differ(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
Page  of 64 Next >>
Author Message
semar
 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar
Senior Member

Joined: 11 March 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1302
bullet Topic: Where Islam & Christian Agree and Differ
    Posted: 12 February 2009 at 11:07am
Where Islam and Christianity Agree and Differ on Jesus

Wilson: The whole issue of Islamic monotheism, by your explanation, has become clear. The Islamic teaching concerning Jesus also has been made clear. Now I would like a summary of the points on which Islam and Christianity agree in regard to Jesus.

Chirri: Islam agrees with Christianity, in general, on the following points:

1. Islam advocates the holiness of Jesus. As a matter of fact, it is an essential part of the Islamic teaching to revere Jesus and to believe in his holiness, and that he lived in this world as a pure person free of any sin. From the Holy Qur'an:

"When the angels said: 'O Mary! Surely God gives thee good news of a word from Him whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, Son of Mary, worthy of regard in this world and the hereafter, and of those who are highly accepted by God.' " 3:45

2. Islam declares the holiness of Mary, the mother of Jesus. No Muslim can doubt the decency and purity of Mary. She, according to the Qur'an, had been the most noble among the women of the nations:

"And when the angels said: 'O Mary! Certainly God has chosen thee and made thee pure and has preferred thee above the women of all nations. 'O Mary! Be obedient to thy Lord, prostrate thyself and bow with those who bow (in worship).'" 3:42-43

3. Islam declares that Jesus was miraculously born from a virgin mother with no father. From the Holy Qur'an:

"And mention Mary in the book. When she withdrew to a place east of her family. She screened herself from them; then We sent to her Our angel, and he appeared to her as a man in all respects. She said: 'I seek refuge in God against you if you are righteous.' He said: 'I am only a Messenger of Thy Lord to grant to you a pure boy.' She said: 'How can I have a son, and no mortal has yet touched me, nor have I been unchaste?' He said: 'So (it will be). Thy Lord says: "It is easy for Me; and that We may make him a sign to men and a mercy from Us. And it is a matter decreed. Then she conceived him; and withdrew with him to a remote place. And the throes of childbirth drove her to the trunk of the palm-tree. She said: 'Oh, would that I had died before this, and had been a thing quite forgotten. So a voice came to her from beneath her: 'Grieve not, surely thy Lord has provided a stream beneath thee. And shake towards thee the trunk of the palm-tree, it will drop on thee fresh ripe dates. So eat and drink and be pleased. Then if thou seest any human, say: "Surely I have vowed a fasting for the sake of the Beneficent, so I will not speak to any human today." 19:16-26

4. The Qur'an attributes to Jesus many of the miracles which are mentioned in the Gospel. According to the Holy Qur'an, Jesus was empowered by God to cure the sick, revive the dead, and make the blind see:

"... and He (God) will make him (Jesus) a messenger to the children of Israel (saying): 'I have come to you with a sign from your Lord that I fashion for you, out of clay, the likeness of a bird, and I breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by permission of God. I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead by permission of God. And I announce unto you what ye eat and what ye store in your houses. 'Lo! Herein verily is a sign for you, if ye are to be believers.' " 3:49

In addition to this, the Holy Qur'an ascribes to Jesus a miracle that is not recorded in the gospels: Jesus spoke clearly while he was in the cradle:

"Then she came to her people with him, carrying him. They said: 'O Mary, thou hast indeed brought a strange thing. O sister of Aaron, thy father was not a wicked man, nor was thy mother an unchaste woman.' But she pointed to him. They said: 'How should we speak to a one who is a child in the cradle?' He said: 'I am indeed a servant of God. He has given me the Book and made me a prophet; and He has made me blessed wherever I may be, and He has enjoined on me prayer and purity so long as I live. And to be kind to my mother; and He has not made me insolent, un-blessed. And Peace be on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I am raised to life (in the Hereafter).' " 19:27-33

Wilson: The points of agreement, by your explanations, have become clear. I know that the followers of various religions have differed on the issue of Jesus Christ. Some of them can be considered anti-Jesus because they deny his holiness and the holiness of his mother, disbelieve in his miracles and reject his truth; some of them are neutral, neither for nor anti-Jesus; and some of them are pro-Jesus, believing in his holiness and accepting all his teachings and believing in his miracles.

According to your explanation, Muslims ought to be considered pro-Jesus, as well as the Christians themselves. What remains now is to see the points in which the Muslims and the Christians disagree concerning Jesus.

Chirri: The area of disagreement between Islam and Christianity, concerning Jesus, includes the following points:

1. Although Islam accepts the holiness of Jesus, it denies his divinity. According to the teaching of Islam, Jesus is no deity. He is not God, nor is he united with God. He is worthy of reverence and great respect, but he is not worthy of worship. Islam is uncompromising in its Monotheism. God is only One, and there is no God but He, the Almighty, the Ever-Living, the Self-Subsistent, the Infinite in life, knowledge, and power. Jesus is not ever-living. He was born less than 2000 years ago, and according to the gospels, he died after a very short life. He is not almighty because he was a subject of persecution; nor was he infinite. He could not be the Creator of the world because the world is over four billion years old, while he was born less than two thousand years ago. He is not worthy of worship because he himself was a humble worshipper of God.

2. Jesus, according to the teaching of Islam, is not a son of God. God does not have any son or child, because He is above that. Bodily parenthood is inconceivable in His case because He is not physical. Spiritual parenthood also is not conceivable, because He is the Creator of every spiritual and material being. The Holy Qur'an is clear on this point:

"And (they) impute falsely, without knowledge, sons and daughters unto Him. Glorified be He and high exalted above (all) that they ascribe (unto Him). The Originator of the heavens and the Earth! How can He have a child when there is no consort for Him, when He created all things and is Aware of all things? Such is God, your Lord. There is no God save Him, the Creator of all things, so worship Him. And He taketh care of all things." 6:100-102

3. Islam denies the crucifixion of Jesus. Jesus did not die on the cross. The Holy Qur'an is clear on this point.

"And because of their saying: 'We slew the Messiah Jesus Son of Mary, the Messenger of God.' They slew him not nor crucified him, but appeared so unto them; and lo! Those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof but the pursuit of a conjecture; for certain they slew him not, but God took him up to Himself. God is Ever-Mighty, Wise." 4:157-158

Wilson: This view is in a sharp contrast with the statements of all the gospels. The four gospels clearly state that Jesus died on the cross. How can we reconcile this with the statement of the Qur'an which denies emphatically the death of Jesus on the cross?

Chirri: There is a way to reconcile the Qur'anic statement with the statements of the gospels: The difference between the two statements could be a difference between appearance and reality. No doubt, some event had taken place at the time of what seemed to be the crucifixion of Jesus and his death on the cross. The life of Jesus was full of miracles, and so could be what seemed to be his death. It could have been that another person (such as Judas, the one who betrayed him) was miraculously likened to him, and he, not Jesus, died on the cross.

There is another way to reconcile the two statements without resort to assumption of any miracle: Suppose Jesus was put on the cross, and that he had fainted, so he appeared dead, while he was still alive.

This assumption is not without evidence from the gospels: The gospels state that Jesus did not stay very long on the cross. He was taken down hurriedly, without breaking his legs, while it was the custom to break the legs of the crucified. The Jews were preparing to celebrate Passover. They did not want him to stay on the cross until the next day, Saturday, on which they are not supposed to do any work such as burial. As Jesus did not stay too long on the cross, he could have remained alive.

The gospels state also that after Jesus appeared to be dead, a man struck at his body with a lance, and that the blood gushed out from his body. We know that blood does not flow from a dead body. This indicates that Jesus was still alive.

The gospels state that Jesus was laid in his tomb, and that a heavy stone was laid above the tomb, and that on Sunday, the body was missing, and that the stone was removed from the mouth of the tomb. We have the right to suspect that some of the disciples of Jesus removed the stone and rescued him. Were Jesus resurrected miraculously, there would have been no need for removal of the stone. God is able to raise him from the grave and keep the stone where it was. The removal of the stone seems to be a human, and not a Divine, work.

In addition to this, the gospels state that Jesus appeared several times to his disciples after the event of crucifixion. All these appearances seemed to have taken place in secrecy, and that Jesus was not willing to appear openly. Were he miraculously resurrected, he would not have had to hide from his enemies. The secrecy of his appearances indicates that he was still living as he did before, and that his life was not interrupted by a short death, and that he was still afraid of the pursuit of his enemies.

The international society of the Holy Shroud has recently concluded that the stains of blood on the shroud of Jesus indicate that Jesus was still living when he was taken down from the cross. Otherwise, there would be no blood on the sheet which covered his body afterwards.

A Christian, believing in the crucifixion of Jesus, would have a hard time reconciling two of the principles in which he believes, namely: Jesus is God, and Jesus was crucified. A crucified person cannot be God because he is unable to protect himself, let alone be almighty.

A Muslim, on the other hand, does not have such a problem. He believes that Jesus is a prophet and no more. A prophet may be persecuted and crucified, because a prophet is not supposed to be almighty. Although Islam does not have the problem of contradiction, it has solved the problem which it does not have. Jesus was not crucified. God had protected him.

4. Islam disagrees with Christianity on the Doctrine of Redemption. The Doctrine of Redemption is based on the Doctrine of the Original Sin: that mankind had been condemned by God because of the sin of Adam and Eve which was consequently inherited by their children. Islam denies the whole Doctrine of the Original Sin; God did not condemn mankind because a sin was committed by a couple at the beginning of time. (This will be made clear in the following inquiry.) There is no original sin; therefore, there is no need for redemption to mankind out of a sin that did not exist.

Furthermore, suppose that there is an original sin. To forgive mankind their original sin, God does not need a sinless person, such as Jesus, to be crucified. He can forgive the human race without causing an innocent person to suffer. To say that God does not forgive mankind unless mankind crucifies Jesus, is to put Him in the position of a ruler who was disobeyed by his own subjects. When the children asked the ruler to forgive the sin of their fathers, he refused to do so unless they kill one of his beloved ones. If they commit such a terrible crime, he will forgive them; otherwise, he will not. I do not think that the advocates of the original sin would be willing to put God in such a position. God, the Most Just and Merciful, does not condemn people because of their ancestor's sin. He may forgive them their own sins without requiring them to commit a bigger one.

Source: http://www.al-islam.org/inquiries/7.html

Salam/Peace,
Semar
The Prophet said: "Do not eat before you are hungry, and stop eating before you are full"
"1/3 of your stomach for food 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"
IP IP Logged
believer
 
Guest Group
Guest Group


Joined: 08 January 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1397
bullet Posted: 21 February 2009 at 5:49pm

Both the Bible and Quran agree that Jesus is:

Kalimatuhu:  God's Word (Ali Imran  3:45 )

Ruhunminhu:  Spirit proceeding from Him (Al Nesa  4:171 )

Al-Masih:  The Messiah (Al -Nesa 4.157, 171 )

Rahma:  Mercy from God to mankind (Maryam 19:21)

 Zakiyyan:  Gift of a holy or sinless son (Maryam 19:19)

Salam:  Peace on him (Maryam 19:33 )

Mina al-Saliheen: Upright or righteous shall he be

Nabiyy:  Prophet (Al-Ankaboot 29:30 )

Rasul: Envoy, messenger (Al - Nesa 4:157, Al-Ma’-edah 5:75 )

Ibn Maryam :  son of Mary , Jesus son of Mary (Ali-Imran 3:45)

Min al-muqareeab: Those who are close to God  ( Ali Imran 3:45 )

Wadjih:  worthy of esteem in this world and the next (Ali Imran  3:45)

Mubarak:  Blessed ,a source of benefit for others ( Maryam  19:31. )

Qawl al-haqq:  Sure word   ( Maryam 19:34.)

Abd Allah: Servant of God (Maryam 19.30)

Aya:  A sign unto mankind (Maryam 19:21 ;3:50 ;43:61)

Shahid:  A witness on Judgement day ( Al-Nesa 4:159)

Mathal:  A Parable or example (Al-Zukhruf 43:57)

IIm:  Knowledge of the hour (Al-Zukhruf 43:61)

Hikmah:  Bearer of wisdom ( Al-Zukhruf 43:63)

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
IP IP Logged
Nazarene
Male Islam
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 05 September 2008
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 300
bullet Posted: 21 February 2009 at 6:13pm

peace to you my friend

thank you for sharing. your post has proven most helpfull in helping me explain  to others on this subject. also it's been a most popular e-mail item of mine lately.
love
leland
love for all conquers all
IP IP Logged
_ALI_
Male  Islam
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 17 February 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 76
bullet Posted: 24 February 2009 at 9:17am

Salam Believer

Kalimatuhu:  God's Word (Ali Imran  3:45 )

I have a small disagreement. Kalimatuhu means word from Him (i.e God), not Word from God. The capitalization you used for word implies that the word here is God, which is untrue according to Islam. Jesus was God's word, not God's Word.

Ruhunminhu:  Spirit proceeding from Him (Al Nesa  4:171 )

Al-Masih:  The Messiah (Al -Nesa 4.157, 171 )

Completely agree here. Also I would also quote the reference you gave which clears up the fact that Jesus was not the son of God.  

004.171 O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

Al-Qur'an, 004.171 (An-Nisa [Women])

Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910

Rahma:  Mercy from God to mankind (Maryam 19:21)

All prophets were mercy from God, including Jesus

 Zakiyyan:  Gift of a holy or sinless son (Maryam 19:19)

Actually Zakiyyan only means holy or pure. "Ghulaman Zakiyyan" is holy son. But whose son is it? Let's read the reference you gave

019.016 وَاذْكُرْ فِي الْكِتَابِ مَرْيَمَ إِذِ انْتَبَذَتْ مِنْ أَهْلِهَا مَكَانًا شَرْقِيًّا
019.016 Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East.

019.017 فَاتَّخَذَتْ مِنْ دُونِهِمْ حِجَابًا فَأَرْسَلْنَا إِلَيْهَا رُوحَنَا فَتَمَثَّلَ لَهَا بَشَرًا سَوِيًّا
019.017 She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.

019.018 قَالَتْ إِنِّي أَعُوذُ بِالرَّحْمَنِ مِنْكَ إِنْ كُنْتَ تَقِيًّا
019.018 She said: "I seek refuge from thee to (Allah) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah."

019.019 قَالَ إِنَّمَا أَنَا رَسُولُ رَبِّكِ لأهَبَ لَكِ غُلامًا زَكِيًّا
019.019 He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.

Al-Qur'an, 019.016-019 (Maryam [Mary])

Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910

So in the context, the angel is telling Mary that you will have a pure son. The son here is for Mary, not for God.

Salam:  Peace on him (Maryam 19:33 )

Mina al-Saliheen: Upright or righteous shall he be

Nabiyy:  Prophet (Al-Ankaboot 29:30 )

Rasul: Envoy, messenger (Al - Nesa 4:157, Al-Ma’-edah 5:75 )

Ibn Maryam :  son of Mary , Jesus son of Mary (Ali-Imran 3:45)

Min al-muqareeab: Those who are close to God  ( Ali Imran 3:45 )

Wadjih:  worthy of esteem in this world and the next (Ali Imran  3:45)

Mubarak:  Blessed ,a source of benefit for others ( Maryam  19:31. )

Qawl al-haqq:  Sure word   ( Maryam 19:34.)

Abd Allah: Servant of God (Maryam 19.30)

Aya:  A sign unto mankind (Maryam 19:21 ;3:50 ;43:61)

Shahid:  A witness on Judgement day ( Al-Nesa 4:159)

 Mathal:  A Parable or example (Al-Zukhruf 43:57)

 

I agree with all this. Though the reference 29:30 you gave is incorrect.

IIm:  Knowledge of the hour (Al-Zukhruf 43:61)

Ilm literally means knowledge, but in the context, “Ilm usaat” means sign of the hour (i.e the day of judgement), meaning Jesus is the sign of the day of judgement.

 

043.061 وَإِنَّهُ لَعِلْمٌ لِلسَّاعَةِ فَلا تَمْتَرُنَّ بِهَا وَاتَّبِعُونِ هَذَا صِرَاطٌ مُسْتَقِيمٌ

043.061 And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.

 

Al-Qur'an, 043.061 (Az-Zukhruf [Ornaments of Gold, Luxury])

 

Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910

Peace

IP IP Logged
believer
 
Guest Group
Guest Group


Joined: 08 January 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1397
bullet Posted: 27 February 2009 at 7:17am

I have been told that there is no use of capitalization in the Quran, is that correct?

Would you agree that 4:171 doesn't say Trinity, but three and implies 3 gods. 
 
4:171
Literal:
You The Book's people, do not exaggerate/exceed the limit in your religion, and do not say on God except the truth , but the Messiah, Jesus, Mary's son God's messenger and His word/expression He threw it away to Mary, and a Soul/Spirit from Him; so believe with God, and His messengers, and do not say: "Three." Stop best for you, but God one God, His praise/glory that to be for him a child; for Him what in the skies/space and what in the earth/Planet Earth, enough/sufficient with God guardian/protector
 
Did any other messenger in the Quran have GOD's soul or word thrown away to them?
 
Do you know why some translaters add "only a messenger"or "no more than" when it says GOD's messenger?
 
Please list verses mentioning other messangers bringing mercies.  Thanks.
 
LOL!!  Thanks for the correction on 29:30!  If you look at the literal translation ther is no mention of sign of the hour:
43:61
Literal:
And that he/it truly is knowledge to the Resurrection/Time of Resurrection/Hour, so do not doubt/argue with it, and follow Me, that straight/direct road/way.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
IP IP Logged
_ALI_
Male  Islam
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 17 February 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 76
bullet Posted: 28 February 2009 at 3:42am
Salam believer
I have been told that there is no use of capitalization in the Quran, is that correct?
Yes
Would you agree that 4:171 doesn't say Trinity, but three and implies 3 gods.
The word trinity has been derived from the word trinitas in latin which literally means three. Similarly in arabic Salasa, though literally means three, it metaphorically means trinity. That is pretty much understood. Ask any arab Christian that is Salasa an appropriate translation for trinity and he will agree. Now how does this verse start
O People of the book!
Meaning Jews and Christians. So when God says don't say three, it means that whatever concept of three Christians have regarding God being in three parts, components, person etc, it is wrong. If Christians say that there are three gods, then that is also wrong. It doesn't imply three gods only, it implies three. Whatever concept of three there is in Christianity, it is incorrect according to Islam because God is speaking to Christians here.  
Did any other messenger in the Quran have GOD's soul or word thrown away to them?
The answer is Adam. As the Quran says
إِنَّ مَثَلَ عِيسَى عِندَ اللّهِ كَمَثَلِ آدَمَ خَلَقَهُ مِن تُرَابٍ ثِمَّ قَالَ لَهُ كُن فَيَكُونُ (3:59)

  • 3:59 (Asad) Verily, in the sight of God, the nature of Jesus is as the nature of Adam, whom He created out of dust and then said unto him, "Be" - and he is. Asad(3,47)
  • إِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ إِنِّي خَالِقٌ بَشَرًا مِن طِينٍ ﴿٧١﴾
    71:
    Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I am about to create man from clay:
    فَإِذَا سَوَّيْتُهُ وَنَفَخْتُ فِيهِ مِن رُّوحِي فَقَعُوا لَهُ سَاجِدِينَ ﴿٧٢﴾
    72:
    "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him."
    فَسَجَدَ الْمَلَائِكَةُ كُلُّهُمْ أَجْمَعُونَ ﴿٧٣﴾
    73:
    So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them together:

    By the way, it doesn't say that He gave His spirit, it says that He gave Mary a spirit from Himself. We all have spirits/souls from God. And regarding this, Molana Maududi in his explanation says
     213. Here Jesus himself is called 'a spirit from God'. The same idea is also expressed elsewhere in the Qur'an: 'And We supported him with the spirit of holiness' (Surah al-Baqarah 2: 87). The import of both verses is that God endowed Jesus with a pure, impeccable soul. He was therefore an embodiment of truth, veracity, righteousness, and excellence. This is what the Christians had been told about Christ. But they exceeded the proper limits of veneration for Jesus. The 'spirit from God' became the 'spirit of God', and the 'spirit of holiness' was interpreted to mean God's own Spirit which became incarnate in Jesus. Thus, along with God and Jesus, there developed the third person of God - the Holy Ghost. It was this unjustified exaggeration which led the Christians to even greater error. Ironically, however, Matthew contains the statement that: 'But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.' (The Bible, Authorized version, p. 771.) (www.tafheem.net)
    Do you know why some translaters add "only a messenger"or "no more than" when it says GOD's messenger?
    In the scriptures of Islam, Jesus is no more than a messanger. Although this particular verse does not contain the word "Illa"(i.e no more than) it is used in other places. Quran 43:59 
    إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا عَبْدٌ أَنْعَمْنَا عَلَيْهِ وَجَعَلْنَاهُ مَثَلًا لِّبَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ ﴿٥٩﴾
    59:
    He (Jesus)was no more than a servant: We granted Our favour to him, and We made him an example to the Children of Israel.
    Hence to make things unambiguous some translators add "no more than".
     Please list verses mentioning other messangers bringing mercies.  Thanks.
    No prob.
     “And We (God) have not sent you (Muhammad) except as a mercy for mankind.”Qur’an 21:107
     If you look at the literal translation ther is no mention of sign of the hour:
    43:61
    Literal:
    And that he/it truly is knowledge to the Resurrection/Time of Resurrection/Hour, so do not doubt/argue with it, and follow Me, that straight/direct road/way.
    You cannot take everything literal especially in the case of arabic. And you gave the incorrect literal translation. The correct one is : He is knowledge of the moment. Why have you translated Sa'aa as resurrection/Time of resurrection when it literally means moment. Now since literal translation does not make sense, the true translation is
     
    And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.  (Yousaf Ali)
    Here is the explanation given by Moududi (tafheem.net)

    *55 Another translation of this sentence can be: "He is a means of the knowledge of Resurrection." Here the question arises: What is implied by "he°? According to Hadrat Hasan Basri and Said bin Jubair it implies the Quran. That is, one can learn from the Qur'an that Resurrection will come. But this commentary is irrelevant to the context. There is nothing in the context on the basis of which it may be said that it refers to the Qur'an. Other commentators almost unanimous]y have expressed the opinion that it implies the prophet Jesus Christ, and this is suitable to the context. Now the question is: In what sense has Jesus Christ been called a Sign or a means of the knowledge of Resurrection? Ibn 'Abbas, Mujahid, `Ikrimah, Qatadah, Suddi, Dahhak, Abul `Aliyah and Abu Malik say that this refers to the second coming of the Prophet Jesus as has been foretold in a large number of the Traditions, and the verse means that when he comes the second time to the world, it wilt become known that Resurrection is not far behind. But in spite of the great authority that these scholars hold it is difficult to believe that in this verse the second advent of the Prophet Jesus has been called a Sign of Resurrection, or a means of its knowledge. For it is contradicted by the next verse. His second advent, indeed, can be a means of the knowledge of Resurrection only for those people who will be living in that future period or will be born after that. How could he be regarded as a means of the knowledge for the pagans of Makkah, who are being asked "not to have any doubt about it"? Therefore, the correct interpretation in our opinion is the one that has been given by some other commentators, according to which the Prophet Jesus' birth without a father and his making a bird out of clay and his raising the dead back to life has been presented as a proof of the possibility of Resurrection. So, the Divine Words would mean: why do you think it is impossible for God to raise you and alI mankind from death when He can create a child without a father and a servant of His can breathe life into an image of clay and raise the dead back to life?"

    Peace


    Edited by _ALI_ - 01 March 2009 at 1:10am
    IP IP Logged
    believer
     
    Guest Group
    Guest Group


    Joined: 08 January 2008
    Online Status: Offline
    Posts: 1397
    bullet Posted: 01 March 2009 at 1:00pm
    OK so in arabic we really don't know if it is GOD's WORD or GOD's word, but we do know that no other on the face of earth had it thrown away to them.
     
    Same with GOD's soul,  none other had it literally thrown away to them:

    15:29

    Literal:So when/if I straightened him, and I blew in him from My Soul/Sprit , so fall/land/come to him prostrating.

    32:9

    Literal:Then He straightened Him, and He blew in Him from His Soul/Spirit , and He made/put for you the hearing/listening, and the eye sights/knowledge, and the hearts , little (is) what you thank/be grateful.

    38:72

    Literal:So if I straightened him, and I blew in him from My Soul/Spirit , so fall/come to him prostrating.

     

    Mary's son,  GOD"S SON that wasn't my point, but the fact that Jesus was pure and no other "man" has ever been.

     

    Now John the Baptist did have the tool of purification in baptism, but he was not pure:

     

    19:13

    Literal:
    And compassion/kindness from at Us, and purification/correction and he was fearing and obeying.
     
    I am using the literal translations from: http://www.yaqb.org/
     
    yes you are correct it is
     
    43:61
    Literal:
    And that he/it truly is knowledge (E) to the Resurrection/Time of Resurrection/Hour, so do not doubt/argue (E) with it, and follow Me, that (is a) straight/direct road/way.
     
    So even with the literal they have added:
    E) to the Resurrection/Time of Resurrection/Hour, so do not doubt/argue (E)
     
    Are there any literal with nothing added translations out there?
    John 3
    16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
    IP IP Logged
    believer
     
    Guest Group
    Guest Group


    Joined: 08 January 2008
    Online Status: Offline
    Posts: 1397
    bullet Posted: 01 March 2009 at 1:03pm
    Ali - in verse 3:55 are the words I am, I am really used twice?
     
    Literal:
    When God said: "You Jesus I am, I am making you die and raising you to Me and purifying you from those who disbelieved, and making those who followed you above those who disbelieved to the Resurrection Day, then to Me (is) your return, so I judge/rule between you in what, you were in it differing .
    John 3
    16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
    IP IP Logged
    Page  of 64 Next >>
    Post Reply Post New Topic
    Printable version Printable version

    Forum Jump
    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot create polls in this forum
    You cannot vote in polls in this forum

    Disclaimer:
    The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
    If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

    Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

    Advertisement:



    Sponsored by:
    Islamicity Membership Program:
    IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
    IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
    Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
    Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
    Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
    IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com