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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
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Chrysalis
 
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Quote Chrysalis Replybullet Posted: 21 January 2009 at 5:32am
Originally posted by asda

just got few minuts to write this...will wrap it up quikly... 
 
please dont waste my time wen u chat wid me next...i thout u knew some facts but sadly u were ignorant of what is going on in this thread....ignorance for u is a blessing...but not for me bro...
the hadith i was referring to is :

Chillax Bro. Smile Like I said, I went right back to read the hadith . . . and the rest of the discussion - and no where did I see the world 'Will' in the hadith, the Prophet could have wanted to write down advise for us for all we know. If you think you are wasting time, you are under no obligation to reply, its not a personal debate anyway. I would not like to waste a brother's time.
 
 


and all your hadith one the majority suggest sticking to the MAIN BODY OF MUSLIMS!!!!! and dat does not mean the majority at all.....it talks about the people of haq...not the majority.....and if u want to know about what allah (s.w.t) says about majority i will give u an example:
"This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!"
Quran 10:92
there are few more such examples i can give u... ...
 
Something told me that you would have a problem with the ahaidth I posted, either with teh wordings, or authencity. Inshallah, perhaps it helped some one else out there.
 
Had the ahadith been talking about 'Haq' it would have been mentioned. The summary of all the ahadith, from various sources might I add, is : How will we know which jamaat/sect/group is following Islam as the Prophet taught it? i.e. straight path? especially when we know there are so many deviations? Prophet Muhammad helped us out there, by giving us a clue, it will be the path observed by the majority of the ummah. Because Allah and the Prophet have told us, that due to Allah's blessing on us, them majority of the ummah will not have a consensus on falsehood . . . so basically, the majority of the ummah - will be always on Haqq. This means, that any sect that deviates from the majority - is going in wrong directions.
 
Its not just one hadith - from one source. Those are different ahadith, from different  authentic sources - talking about the same thing. They clearly are referring to a mass/majority.
 
 
 
 

 


Edited by Chrysalis - 21 January 2009 at 5:34am
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Chrysalis
 
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Quote Chrysalis Replybullet Posted: 21 January 2009 at 5:46am

A reminder to some Members : No need to get personal. Its not a personal argument.

"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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asda
 
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Quote asda Replybullet Posted: 04 February 2009 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by Chrysalis

A reminder to some Members : No need to get personal. Its not a personal argument.



jazakkallah..i hope this serves a reminder to many.....

well well..i think the tone of this discussion has changed to a "debate"....where everything ends in a sensless way.....i would advice u to keep the tone of a discussion here....specially sign*reader ....inshallah this discussion will now be seen as some kind of a win loose game...


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asda
 
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Quote asda Replybullet Posted: 04 February 2009 at 2:30pm
Originally posted by Talib_Asadullah


Originally posted by asda


lakum deenakum waleeya deen...

Assalamu AlaikumWont you consider that that might be very inapporiate, considering that ayah was aimed at the most ardent and staunch ones of the Kuffar and Mushrikeen?When Did I, or anyone that disagrees with you in some areas, adopt a Way of Life contrary to Islam?


wa'a'likumassalam
hope you r in good health..
brother talib...i was not saying that to common sunni brothers....i am always ready for a healthy "discussion" wid sunni brothers....the words above were meant only for anti-shia people who hav the guts to actually bomb our respected shrines of the grandson of Prophet (s.a.w) when infact we mourn for them.....fine...if they think we r wrong...then leave us...y attack us??? there shud be a very good reason behind this..and i see it as that they see the truth being spread....and they try to supress it.....well u may see it in a different way..and i dont blame u on dat....but the message to those anti-shias was...."leave us alone".....
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asda
 
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Quote asda Replybullet Posted: 04 February 2009 at 2:32pm
I think you live in some freak place and you come here to talk about ignorance that is absolutely funny attitude of turn coats....
How much support have you garnered on your POV....I would say zilch... The truth just like the Jooz and Xtians makes you mad ... The things you like ...the blood rituals of these old deviants who created religions out of person's names... You have no logic when become partisan of Ali against the party of Muhammad(s)

What is there to think over when I know you guys like the back of my hand that you are so close to Catholicism in rituals and making up stories

YOU have no self respect and are bad name for Islam if that is what you want hear! WATCH THIS VIDEO ABOUT TWO MINUTES AND THEN HOLD YOUR FREAKING BREATH AND LISTEN TO THE JEWISH WOMAN SAY ABOUT YOU SICK & DUMB IDIOTS ................ who gave the idea of slitting heads of underage kids WHERE DOES IT SAY IN QURAN?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FABqq_jjRRo&eurl=http://christopherhitchenswatch.blogspot.com/

It will be so nice if all you were sent to Iran to reduce the treason to the Ummah in bondage!
My brother married an Iranian and what she talks about Shiit mullahs it is just mind boggling how screwed up is their dogma.... that she is no more not even a Muslim! All the Iranain I have known were hardly Muslims much less Shiias! That should open your eyes!


the above part of ure post mr sign*reader objects only one subject.....i dont want to reply like u did...but i will just give u a gift to prove some facts....watever u want to call it.....those against us (anti-shia, not sunnis) know that what are they gonna face soon...heres ure gift:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbHAQwZXPaY

i hope u see this video and extract wat i want u to show...

btw..i wonder y wat jews say matter to u..lol...hint ??

now i will adress ure queries:

Where were Hizbilies this time when Gazan were being destroyed?
Hamas helped Hizblies in 06, ....Why didn't the Hizbilies or Iran help Gazans?
None of Arabs are free to make their own decisions so what else is new for you?


well i think this pic will answer u:



and even if hizbullah wud hav started a direct confrontation, who wud be responsible for the death of thousands of labanese...then people like u wud just jump out on the fact that they dint about the sunnis and christians out dere..and r selfish..blah blah blah.....come on..stop playing this game wid me...


Don't give me the BS!--you can't avoid these guys do sajdas on the dirt piece! May be you are well versed after all your rhetoric notwithstanding!


u want to debate wid me on dat..come up inshallah...y do u like making stray sentence and den runing away from it??

Quit the st**id talk! Just tell us in few words what are you doing here?


ure frustration says it all...
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asda
 
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Quote asda Replybullet Posted: 04 February 2009 at 2:32pm
Chillax Bro. Like I said, I went right back to read the hadith . . . and the rest of the discussion - and no where did I see the world 'Will' in the hadith, the Prophet could have wanted to write down advise for us for all we know. If you think you are wasting time, you are under no obligation to reply, its not a personal debate anyway. I would not like to waste a brother's time.


okay fine...i accept ure argument...it was not a will since it was not mentioned....but do u deny the fact that it was SOMETHING REALLY IMPORTANT?? do you deny that what had to be written down was SUNNAH OF PROPHET (s.a.w) which shudnt be taken lightly..a reason being the comment of rasulullah (s.a.w) on watever he was goint to say??


Had the ahadith been talking about 'Haq' it would have been mentioned. The summary of all the ahadith, from various sources might I add, is : How will we know which jamaat/sect/group is following Islam as the Prophet taught it? i.e. straight path? especially when we know there are so many deviations? Prophet Muhammad helped us out there, by giving us a clue, it will be the path observed by the majority of the ummah. Because Allah and the Prophet have told us, that due to Allah's blessing on us, them majority of the ummah will not have a consensus on falsehood . . . so basically, the majority of the ummah - will be always on Haqq. This means, that any sect that deviates from the majority - is going in wrong directions.

Its not just one hadith - from one source. Those are different ahadith, from different authentic sources - talking about the same thing. They clearly are referring to a mass/majority.


i seriosly doubt ure comments...i can bring argiments on the "majority" thing you have brought up....but lets first look into those hadith u hav provided..

well its ure translation..not mine...it all talks about the "main body" of muslims....do u think numbers matter in front of Allah (s.w.t)??? i seriosly doubt u wud say yes....

well contrary to you points, there is a clear hadith of Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) wen he discusses what should we do after him (a.s)..it is written in sahih muslim that:


Muslim says:) Zuhayr ibn Harb and Shuja` ibn Makhlad narrated to me from `Ulayyah that he said: Zuhayr said: narrated to us Isma`il ibn Ibrahim, from Abu Hayyan, from Yazid ibn Hayyan, who said: "I, Husayn ibn Sabrah and `Umar ibn Muslim went to see Zayd ibn Arqam. When we sat down with him, Husayn said to him, 'O Zayd, you have been greatly fortunate. You have seen the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be Allah's peace and benedictions, heard his speech, fought with him in battles and have prayed behind him. Indeed, O Zayd, you have been enormously fortunate. Narrate to us what you have heard from the Messenger of Allah , may Allah's peace and benedictions be upon him.'

"Zayd said: 'O brother, by God, I have become aged and old and I have forgotten some of what I used to remember from the Messenger of Allah , upon whom be Allah's peace and benedictions. So accept what I narrate to you and as to what I don't, trouble me not regarding it.' Then he said: 'One day the Messenger of Allah , upon whom be Allah's peace and benedictions, addressed us near a pond called Khumm between Makkah and Madinah. He praised God and extolled Him and preached and reminded (us). Then he said, "Lo, O people, I am only a human being and I am about to respond to the messenger of my Lord [i.e. the call of death]. I am leaving behind two precious things (thaqalayn) among you. The first of the two is the Book of Allah. In it is guidance and light. So get hold of the Book of Allah and adhere to it." Then he urged and motivated (us) regarding the Book of Allah . Then he said, "And my Ahl al­Bayt (family). I urge you to remember God regarding my Ahl al­Bayt. I urge you to remember God regarding my Ahl al­Bayt. I urge you to remember God regarding my Ahl al­Bayt"'" ....

(Sahih Muslim, part 7, Kitab fada'il al­Sahabah [Maktabat wa Matba`at Muhammad `Ali Subayh wa Awladuhu: Cairo] pp. 122-123.)


now whover holds the Ahlel Bayt (a.s) as a source of guidence like quran is following the sunnah of rasulullah (s.a.w)...regardless if those people are among the majority or the minority....
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Quote Sign*Reader Replybullet Posted: 08 February 2009 at 9:55pm
Mr. asda:
Let's switch hadith to some ground reality for a minute what Shiit are doing ........
Would you explain the Alvite shii Syrian government's role in the rendition ops for the US government while all over the world she is considered a big ally of Iranian regime who HAVE BEEN CALLING USA  BIG SATAN FOR THIRTY YEARS!
So question is how come her ally is doing the satan's dirty work?

 Following is the editorial from yesterday's paper LA Times that caught my eye on rendition:
 IT proves my original contention the shiia governments are working with the western governments in secret against the sunnis who are fighting for their faith...................

Torture on trial?

A case coming before a federal appeals panel gives the judiciary another chance to examine the secrecy surrounding the government's 'extraordinary rendition' program.
February 7, 2009

Khaled El-Masri, a German citizen, was flown at the request of the United States to Afghanistan, where he says he was tortured by the CIA (in a case of mistaken identity) for four months. Maher Arar, a Canadian citizen, was seized in New York and dispatched by U.S. officials to Syria, where he was apparently tortured regularly for almost a year. Binyam Mohammed says he was taken into custody in Karachi and brutally interrogated for two years in Pakistan and Morocco and then at the notorious CIA-run "Dark Prison" in Kabul, Afghanistan.

Each of these men later filed a civil lawsuit protesting his experience in the U.S. government's "extraordinary rendition" program. Yet not one has been allowed his day in court. Instead, the cases were summarily dismissed.

In each instance, the government invoked what's known as the "state secrets privilege," arguing that the lawsuit must not be allowed to proceed because it would require the disclosure of vitally sensitive classified information.

Until now, courts have been overwhelmingly accommodating of this claim. The Bush administration asserted the privilege dozens of times -- far more than any of its predecessors -- and was not once required to turn over material it claimed was secret. "Private interests," noted the judge in El-Masri's case as he tossed it out, "must give way to the national interest."

Next week, however, the judiciary has another chance to declare its independence. On Monday, a three-judge panel of the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals will be asked to reinstate Mohammed's case (brought with four others) against Jeppesen DataPlan Inc., the San Jose-based company that helped arrange rendition flights.

We hope the judges will have the courage to stand up to the government. Better yet, we hope the Obama administration lawyers will show up in court Monday and reject the approach of the previous administration, letting the case go forward. If a man credibly claims to have been snatched from his home and family and tortured by or with the acquiescence of the government, he deserves a fair and impartial reckoning in court. Besides, the government's assertions about the damage that could ensue should be viewed skeptically. The history of the privilege suggests that the government may use it not so much to protect national security as to prevent its own illegal or embarrassing misadventures from coming to light.

There are ways to balance the government's legitimate security interests against plaintiffs' right to press their cases. Judges could, for instance, take a more active role in scrutinizing the claims of secrecy, examining the controversial evidence in private. Or they could agree to hold back certain pieces of sensitive information without dismissing entire cases. But what's clear is that the government should not be permitted to kidnap and torture and then simply declare those heinous activities to be "state secrets" and off-limits for discussion.

It is understandable the rendition ops in US occupied places like Afghanistan and Pakistan but of all places SyriaQuestion
ACTION SPEAKS LOUDER THAN WORDS......SHAME ON THESE TURNCOATS!!!!



Edited by Sign*Reader - 08 February 2009 at 10:03pm
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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asda
 
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Quote asda Replybullet Posted: 09 February 2009 at 9:46am
ure assumption dat shia muslims are working against sunni muslims is quite bad......i think u shud better look into the other thread where hamas (a sunni group) thanx iranian foreign minister (obviosly shia muslim) for their support towards the israeli conflict.....where r u man....do u think hamas is BLIND???and u knw the ground reality more dan dem??

well it is noticable that ure tone is better in the above post..(compared to others).....nd i appreciate dat....


regarding the news item u posted.......i am not a blind supporter of goverments of iran and syria.......i dont know how u r ruling out the possibility of curruption within syria where(in some areas) the ruling party has no hand in it.....nor hav u provided any evidence that the goverment was involved in it...its just ure assumptions which u are working on.....
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