Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Shia And Sunni Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 7 Next >>
Author Message
asda
 
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 02 September 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 164
Quote asda Replybullet Posted: 19 January 2009 at 12:03pm
okay..since i dont have a lot of time in the next few days..i will be replying this..i will try to keep my reples shoort.....my answers are given in green below:


Originally posted by Sign*Reader



The title should be Shia and Muslims due to the following reasons:Every child born is  born on fitrah i.e., Muslim and it the parent that gives him his  religion or the absence of it....
it is sad that u see religion as a form of inheiritence...atleast this is not true from where i see it...

Three progenitors of the three main line religions!We say they were supposed to be Muslims but Judeo /Christen got the currency! Why cuz people put bunch of nonsense into it based on their egos and ignorance or the influence of sect originators! Look at the verities of Judaism! Judaism it was supposed to be Islam...OK that is asking too much...But then  Orthodox has God in it; Conservative may be; but what is this the Reformed wow the God is history so is judgment day and it is good enough to be the Jews... meaning the Hebrews... meaning children of Abraham...And they want all the goodies here and now so go after the world .Do you see the picture?
  • Musa(a) was born and let go into the river/removal of the father figure from the scene who could be detrimental to his mental growth being in bondage you know that!
What we gonna do about Nazarenes; or so called Christians after a few centuries they took a completely a new tack they merged the "Passion of Christ " that blood and gore ....and merged with the Roman trinitarianism, RC and Lutheranism, Baptist ism and Mormonism and hundreds other ism all based on crucifixion that was an allusion made to look that actually didn't happen! 
again it is odd that you see the followers of Ahlel Bayt (a.s) as some people who made up whatever they liked...well for a fact i can say and prove this about u...being in the majority does not make you normal or orignal...because what matters in the sight of Allah (s.w.t) is the truth and not the majority...

  • Jesus(a) was conceived by the word being delivered to Murrium and born without a father cuz there were no father figure fit for the boy Jesus amongst the mammon worshiping Jews of his time and also a birth without father was to be shock to the smart aleci Jews!
  • Muhammad(s)'s was conceived and his father was taken before his birth and his nurturing escaped the father's pagan influence then he got the revelation at age he was given the Quran and he got the confirmation that he was all along a Muslim but now had an added responsibility of telling others to revert to the nature of being a Muslim in totality than anything else. All those who accepted his call reverted back to being a Muslim cuz they( adult friend Abu Bakr(r); Khatija(r) knew his life style /SUNNAH and believed his Kalimah" There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger! Of course rest in the house hold Zayd and young Ali(r) 
Now the Jews say they want the preference over the world and want Palestine to themselves  cuz they are related in blood with Abraham(a).The Christians claim redemption cuz Jesus(a) got crucified and the Shiane Ali claim both their claim being related and cuz Hussain(r) got killed at Karbala and that land became a holy land that shiiTs carry even to Kabbah for their prayers! Just Imagine the dirt of Karbala taking preference than Haram Sharifs!
This is another Tohmat...the Land of Karbala has its own virue, but comparing it to the Land of Makkah is just ubsurd....The land of Makkah where the Prophet (s.a.w) lived, where Imam Ali (a.s) was born and the biggest of all, the Holy Kaabah is place there cant take prefference above any land...infact it is the goveremnt of saudi which has made hajj trips a problem for us(specially) and the rest of the world by making it expencive widout any reason...its just a time like the jaahils of makkah before the Prophet (s.a.w) used the month of zill hijjah to gain money..thats it...

  •  Who established these innovations for them when the laws of Islam were already set?
    Are you talking about mourning of Imam Hussain (a.s)?? this is surly not an innovation and the Prophet (s.a.w) has been reported to cry when he heard how his (s.a.w) grandson (a.s) would be killed....okay..even if i imagine that this is an innovation, where do u think the sentence you say before fajar (assalatu khairum minan nawm) came?? was this said during the time of the Prophet (s.a.w)??? i will be waiting for ure answer!!

  • Is this Islam of the Prophet?

if protesting against evil not part islam of Prophet (s.a.w) then i would request u to read about islam again...and one of the biggest aim which is achieved by comomorating the death of Imam Hussain (a.s) is that it is an easier medium for scholars to teach the ummah as a major part of the lectures are given to it...and second is unity and another is the feeling to die in the cause of Islam....it is due to all these reasons the anti-shia in iraq/pakistan bomb our holy sites.....they surly know the dangers of letting us continue this...if there was nothing good achieved, y do u thing they like bombing our holy sites??...if they thing we r wronged, then leave us aside...y create a fuss...
  • So where did this Shii thing came from?

i can ask you the same question...where did the ahluss sunnah wal jamaat come from....we are all muslims....so wats the issue....its just that after the Prophet (s.a.w) died, people who followed abu bakr as a caliph were called sunnis and people who remained with the Ahlel Bayt (a.s) were called shias of Imam Ali (a.s) (followers of Imam Ali (a.s))...actually the followers of Ahlel Bayt (a.s) are the people who obeyed the words of Prophet (s.a.w) when he said:
"I am leaving you two weighty things, if you follow them you will never go astray, they are the Qur'an and my Ahlul'bayt".
They include people like H. Bilal (a.s), H. Ammar e Yassir (a.s), H Abu Zarr e Ghiffari (a.s), H Malik e Ashtar (a.s) and so on....



  • Where did this addition to Kalima Ali waliullah come from?

i can ask u da same question:


Can you locate the Kalima Tayyiba recited by Sunni 'There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger' from the Holy Qur'an. By this we don't mean joining up verses we are asking you to show us this Kalima as a single complete sentence from the Qur'an.

another question i would like to ask is :


Can you show us any single Hadeeth wherein Rasulullah (s) said that this Kalima was fixed and that no one was allowed to make any additions to it?

infact we also see here that changes were lawfully made to the duas of the Prophet (s.a.w) since there is no law which objects it:
We read in Saheeh Muslim Book of Pilgrimage 007 Hadeeth Numbers 2667 and 2668 as follows:

'Abdullah b. 'Umar (Allah be pleased with them) reported that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) entered upon the state of Ihram near the mosque at Dhu'l-Hulaifa as his camel stood by it and he said: Here I am at Thy service, O Lord; here I am at Thy service: here I am at Thy service. There is no associate with Thee. Here I am at Thy service. All praise and grace is due to Thee and the sovereignty (too). There is no associate with Thee. They (the people) said that 'Abdullah b. 'Umar said that that was the Talbiya of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). Nafi' said: 'Abdullah (Allah be pleased with him) made this addition to it: Here I am at Thy service; here I am at Thy service; ready to obey Thee. The Good is in Thy Hand. Here I am at Thy service. Unto Thee is the petition and deed (is also for Thee).




  • Did Ali(r) ask this to be coined?


if u do further research on this, you would come to know that this was even said in front of Imam Ali (a.s) and he did not refuse it.. for details please read "Shawahid un Nubuwwa, by Abdul Rehman Jami, Page 286 & 287"

  • I personally have no problem with that but if we consider him waliullah why wasn't he forewarned by Allah about the attack of the assassin?
    everything happens to according to will of Allah (s.w.t), then y doesnt Allah (s.w.t) make everybody muslims so that there is no evil???...well well...some of the questions u hav posted are absurd...If Allah (s.w.t) would have wished to save Imam Ali (a.s) from the attack he would have...but He (s.w.t) willed Martydom for Imam Ali (a.s)...one of the highest position...and surly there are reports that suggest that Imam ALi (a.s) wished he would be a martyr and give his life for Allah (s.w.t)...

    As we all know Prophet(s) was warned about his assassination plot and he made plans to migrate with his bud Abu Bakr(r)
  • When he accepted to be the Caliph did people read the revised Kalima?

i think this is another irrelevent question....it has already been adressed above...over here no one is denying the impotance of kalime...but due to lack of time..i dont have enuf time to explain it to u....if u ponder over the points i hav given above..u will understand what i am trying to say...

  • What is difference of the Passion flagellation between Shiias & RCatholics!

what is the difference between those rock concerts and some sunnis dancing to naats in mosques (i am sorry if i have offended anybody...there were reasons y i wanted to avoid answering him...or the way he wrote his question which u can see now)....okay i will make it more polite...what is the difference between reading the quran while the jews and the christians read and follow their holy book in the same way....WILL U STOP READING THE QURAN FROM TOMORROW!!!!! if some act resembles any other religion shud we stop doing it???...charity is an act done by jews and christians as well...will u stop doing that from tomorrow and say that its an act done be non-muslims????
it is better if u dont analyse what goes on in muharram because i am sure u have never attended our musques and heard any lectures...therefore it wouldnt be good to judge something from far away...


  • Isn't this similar to what the RCs in third world do and don't forget the Passion of the Christ stuff still raging on RCs minds while at the same time that blood of Christ has commuted their sins slate clean! Does that make any sense?

already answered above...

  • Hussan(r) abdicated but Hussain(r) decided to throw the gauntlet to the state forces....Was he in a different or stronger position than his elder brother?

thats the difference between you and me....when rasulullah (s.w.t) made peace with the kuffar of makkah, was he weak then?? did u forget badr...Islam is a religion of peace....and if u dont know, war was thrown at Imam Hussain (a.s)...and it was not his choice....an evidence of this is that he 72 followers...he(a.s) was forced to fight a war...and Imam Hassan (a.s) even though could have fought, but since he had a choice, like rasulullah(s.a.w) he made peace...

  • Then you go further down the road and followers of Imam Ismael split from the mainline after Jafar as Sadiq refused to delegate Imamat ...How do you explain that if Jafar thought his first born was no good why did they let them Ismaelis getaway and start their own brand ?

Imamat is not inheiritence....nor a status to be set in a family...Its just that Allah (s.w.t) wantedet like that...but sadly some people (ismaailees) thot otherwise and had a belief that Imamat was given on inheiritence...thus this split came up....

  • Isn't obvious these sectarian Twelvers or Seveners or any of the free lancers bunch different self styled saint branching were based on the Tribal/political followings than the true spirit of Islam as preached by the Prophet(s)?

nope...infact the ahluss sunnah had all the political support since they were the on the rulers seat and supported the ismaelees to thrive against the twelvers...i would point out ure type of language which i have ignored...

i would also like to add that politics is a base of ure system of khilafat...not ours....so please look into ure corner b4 pointing out..



You have Alavites ruling over Syria cuz the west would not allow a Muslim majority take the reigns of power!
so are u telling me that the majority of muslim states are ruled by non-muslims..which world do u live in...no offence, but the west has always preffered a sunni goverment over a shii one...and dats evident in history..

And you know these Ismaeils have  a weird ism and their religion is business based! Almost like the Jews!I hope some one can come up with the answers!
whatever the ismaeelees do is not our responsibility...they are a different sect...and for i believe that they are wronged...but it is wrong to judge what their religion is based on...


I am sorry I posed too many of them.............



i hope i have satisfactorily answered every single question of ures...if any of u want a further discussion on this i wud prefer having a discussion in a seperate thread where we can discuss each topic in detail...many topics in one thread is just going to make things complicated..and hard for each other to understand

regards
Asda


Edited by asda - 19 January 2009 at 12:23pm
IP IP Logged
Chrysalis
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 November 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2041
Quote Chrysalis Replybullet Posted: 19 January 2009 at 11:58pm
Originally posted by asda


conspiracy theory???
okay fine....imagine this....if you would have been there, and the Prophet (s.a.w) was asking for pen and paper....what would you do, reject his wishes??? or quikly follow his orders??? please let me know...

are you trying to tell me that the Prophet (s.a.w)'s writing was not important??? remember that the Prophet (s.a.w) was on his death bed....and surly not feeling well...in this condition he wants to write something which will prevent people from going astray...look at the importance given by Prophet (s.a.w) to this...the people who prevented him to write whatever he wanted to, y do u think they did so....did they not read the quran where Allah (s.w.t) has repeatedly said:

are you trying to tell me the people who were around the Prophet (s.a.w) dint have knowledge of quran??? i am sure its not like that....they were tought Quran by the Best teacher of quran on earth....how can they forget all this...

 
1. The Companions of the Prophet, especially his near and dear ones, would never reject his wishes. You would know that if you had read ahadith, but then ofcourse, you reject most of them anyway.
 
2. Like you said yourself, the companions were taught by the best teacher of Quran, and learnt by his example, therefore they would know the importance of obeying his wishes, and be aware of the Quranic injunctions stressing on obeying the Prophet - thus would never ever disobey him.
 
3. Again, nobody prevented the Prophet from doing anything. The Prophet couldnt write in the first place. I highly doubt your consipiracy theory, but I shall go back in the thread and see which hadith you base this claim of yours on (prevention of writing the 'will') since I have not followed it from the start, because a lot of talk here gets on my nerves.
 


 
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
IP IP Logged
Sign*Reader
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 November 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3352
Quote Sign*Reader Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2009 at 12:44am
Originally posted by asda


it is sad that u see religion as a form of inheiritence...atleast this is not true from where i see it...

WHat do you call these twelvers and Seveners, How did they get the immamats? Dad to son ? or some others way!
Man YOU lost It right here!

Originally posted by asda


again it is odd that you see the followers of Ahlel Bayt (a.s) as some people who made up whatever they liked...well for a fact i can say and prove this about u...being in the majority does not make you normal or orignal...because what matters in the sight of Allah (s.w.t) is the truth and not the majority...

I never said that majority is normal particularly when they are in bondage!
You have seen it in Gaza.......

Originally posted by asda


This is another Tohmat...the Land of Karbala has its own virue, but comparing it to the Land of Makkah is just ubsurd....The land of Makkah where the Prophet (s.a.w) lived, where Imam Ali (a.s) was born and the biggest of all, the Holy Kaabah is place there cant take prefference above any land...infact it is the goveremnt of saudi which has made hajj trips a problem for us(specially) and the rest of the world by making it expencive widout any reason...its just a time like the jaahils of makkah before the Prophet (s.a.w) used the month of zill hijjah to gain money..thats it...


I am not advocating for Saudis and  never will.......
You need to visit Harm shareef and see it yourself what these Iranians do with that dirt disc to do Sajdah....they never went to hajj just thirty years ago and no one taught the etiquette of the Haram.. You talk about scholars!


Originally posted by asda

Are you talking about mourning of Imam Hussain (a.s)?? this is surly not an innovation and the Prophet (s.a.w) has been reported to cry when he heard how his (s.a.w) grandson (a.s) would be killed....okay..even if i imagine that this is an innovation, where do u think the sentence you say before fajar (assalatu khairum minan nawm) came?? was this said during the time of the Prophet (s.a.w)??? i will be waiting for ure answer!!

This a make belief of you guys........
Originally posted by asda


if protesting against evil not part islam of Prophet (s.a.w) then i would request u to read about islam again...and one of the biggest aim which is achieved by comomorating the death of Imam Hussain (a.s) is that it is an easier medium for scholars to teach the ummah as a major part of the lectures are given to it...and second is unity and another is the feeling to die in the cause of Islam....it is due to all these reasons the anti-shia in iraq/pakistan bomb our holy sites.....they surly know the dangers of letting us continue this...if there was nothing good achieved, y do u thing they like bombing our holy sites??...if they thing we r wronged, then leave us aside...y create a fuss...

Iraq and Pakistan are American occupied countries facilitated by the SHii and Ahmedi agents!

Originally posted by asda


i can ask you the same question...where did the ahluss sunnah wal jamaat come from....we are all muslims....so wats the issue....its just that after the Prophet (s.a.w) died, people who followed abu bakr as a caliph were called sunnis and people who remained with the Ahlel Bayt (a.s) were called shias of Imam Ali (a.s) (followers of Imam Ali (a.s))...actually the followers of Ahlel Bayt (a.s) are the people who obeyed the words of Prophet (s.a.w) when he said:
"I am leaving you two weighty things, if you follow them you will never go astray, they are the Qur'an and my Ahlul'bayt".
They include people like H. Bilal (a.s), H. Ammar e Yassir (a.s), H Abu Zarr e Ghiffari (a.s), H Malik e Ashtar (a.s) and so on....


Can you locate the Kalima Tayyiba recited by Sunni 'There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger' from the Holy Qur'an. By this we don't mean joining up verses we are asking you to show us this Kalima as a single complete sentence from the Qur'an.

If this was true why would Ali(r) become the Caliph elected by ahle Sunnah?
Don't be facetious like the Christians and Jooz,

Quran doesn't give the 
detail of Salat either!

Originally posted by asda

Can you show us any single Hadeeth wherein Rasulullah (s) said that this Kalima was fixed and that no one was allowed to make any additions to it?

Now you are sounding like the Ahmedees

Originally posted by asda

infact we also see here that changes were lawfully made to the duas of the Prophet (s.a.w) since there is no law which objects it:
We read in Saheeh Muslim Book of Pilgrimage 007 Hadeeth Numbers 2667 and 2668 as follows:

Non sequitur

Originally posted by asda

'Abdullah b. 'Umar (Allah be pleased with them) reported that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) entered upon the state of Ihram near the mosque at Dhu'l-Hulaifa as his camel stood by it and he said: Here I am at Thy service, O Lord; here I am at Thy service: here I am at Thy service. There is no associate with Thee. Here I am at Thy service. All praise and grace is due to Thee and the sovereignty (too). There is no associate with Thee. They (the people) said that 'Abdullah b. 'Umar said that that was the Talbiya of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). Nafi' said: 'Abdullah (Allah be pleased with him) made this addition to it: Here I am at Thy service; here I am at Thy service; ready to obey Thee. The Good is in Thy Hand. Here I am at Thy service. Unto Thee is the petition and deed (is also for Thee).

Non sequitur  again


Originally posted by asda


if u do further research on this, you would come to know that this was even said in front of Imam Ali (a.s) and he did not refuse it.. for details please read "Shawahid un Nubuwwa, by Abdul Rehman Jami, Page 286 & 287"

No one is buying this here!


Originally posted by asda

everything happens to according to will of Allah (s.w.t), then y doesnt Allah (s.w.t) make everybody muslims so that there is no evil???...well well...some of the questions u hav posted are absurd...If Allah (s.w.t) would have wished to save Imam Ali (a.s) from the attack he would have...but He (s.w.t) willed Martydom for Imam Ali (a.s)...one of the highest position...and surly there are reports that suggest that Imam ALi (a.s) wished he would be a martyr and give his life for Allah (s.w.t)...

Thank you ...Exactly the point I am trying to make ...then accept the will of Allah swt
and quit making a hue and cry against his will............



Originally posted by asda


what is the difference between those rock concerts and some sunnis dancing to naats in mosques (i am sorry if i have offended anybody...there were reasons y i wanted to avoid answering him...or the way he wrote his question which u can see now)....okay i will make it more polite...what is the difference between reading the quran while the jews and the christians read and follow their holy book in the same way....WILL U STOP READING THE QURAN FROM TOMORROW!!!!! if some act resembles any other religion shud we stop doing it???...charity is an act done by jews and christians as well...will u stop doing that from tomorrow and say that its an act done be non-muslims????
it is better if u dont analyse what goes on in muharram because i am sure u have never attended our musques and heard any lectures...therefore it wouldnt be good to judge something from far away...

I am not for those idiots dancing in mosques!
There is no comparison between them and us! I remember my dorm days ... room mate coming back from his bible thumping class and throw his bible on the floor along with with his shoes....some holy book! yes you don't want their way....a tax right off or plaque on the building......
I had shiia friends all my life either they were socialist /communists then later in life bunch of Takiyya practitioner schemers that cost me a bundle and almost my life! I was almost a Shiia and then What finally turned me off was the visits to the Majalas and listening to the Zakars coming from the old countries and listening to their drama ......then all those my shiia friends who didn't even pray would act as if to grab the Xtian like going along would get the redemption!
And the over all atmosphere would become just too much......


Originally posted by asda


thats the difference between you and me....when rasulullah (s.w.t) made peace with the kuffar of makkah, was he weak then?? did u forget badr...Islam is a religion of peace....and if u dont know, war was thrown at Imam Hussain (a.s)...and it was not his choice....an evidence of this is that he 72 followers...he(a.s) was forced to fight a war...and Imam Hassan (a.s) even though could have fought, but since he had a choice, like rasulullah(s.a.w) he made peace..
.
This is just lame...


Originally posted by asda

Imamat is not inheiritence....nor a status to be set in a family...Its just that Allah (s.w.t) wantedet like that...but sadly some people (ismaailees) thot otherwise and had a belief that Imamat was given on inheiritence...thus this split came up....

Bingo Now yu are changing the tune ...Just explain your lineage of Imams
Thanks for saying that......

Originally posted by asda


nope...infact the ahluss sunnah had all the political support since they were the on the rulers seat and supported the ismaelees to thrive against the twelvers...i would point out ure type of language which i have ignored...

Quit lying that is all .....you are making up history to defend your rubbish.....you won't get away with this.........

Originally posted by asda


i would also like to add that politics is a base of ure system of khilafat...not ours....so please look into ure corner b4 pointing out..

I think you are too young and sophomoric to know the facts!
Because the shiia were bent upon the heredity that gave tribal system to take hold the Caliphate went hereditary too the Ummayads Abbasids and Ottomans! where is the politics here! I don't live in a Muslim country but I don't think you have a system where you live  my internet friend....At least when the Sunni Caliphs ruled they ruled the realm with dignity and honor without scheming! The world couldn't refuse their direction and orders....And then they were back stabbed by the shiias!

Originally posted by asda


so are u telling me that the majority of muslim states are ruled by non-muslims..which world do u live in...no offence, but the west has always preffered a sunni goverment over a shii one...and dats evident in history..

Right now there no independent Muslim state since the demise of Ottomans...why every time the west attacks it attcks the so called Sunni territory and not the Shiit WW! Ottomans end of the the Caliphate; India
the Muguls and Nawab Siraj udollah(who was Jaffar a Shiit a turn coat who help Clive)
At the destuction of Baghdad by Halaku and by now by Bush who were the traitors you want me tell you .........


Read this if you like.........
http://www.newsmax.com/timmerman/iranian_mullahs/2008/06/10/103339.html
 


Edited by Sign*Reader - 20 January 2009 at 12:50am
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
IP IP Logged
Chrysalis
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 November 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2041
Quote Chrysalis Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2009 at 4:25am
Originally posted by asda



again it is odd that you see the followers of Ahlel Bayt (a.s) as some people who made up whatever they liked...well for a fact i can say and prove this about u...being in the majority does not make you normal or orignal...because what matters in the sight of Allah (s.w.t) is the truth and not the majority...
 
Contrary to what you suggested, according to sahih ahadith - the main muslim body i.e. majority will be on the straight path. Which means, any other sects that propped up later, and deviated from the Prophet Muhammad and his Sahaba's path, are going in different directions:
 
Sahih Muslim (3/4553) under the chapter heading 'Instruction to stick to the main body of the Muslims in the time of the trials and warning against those inviting people to disbelief', :
 
On the authority of Hudhaifa ibn al-Yaman (Allah be pleased with him), who said:

"People used to ask the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) about the good times, but I used to ask him about (the) bad times fearing lest they overtake me. I said, 'Messenger of Allah, we were in the midst of ignorance and evil, and then God brought us this good (time through Islam). Is there any bad time after this good one?' He said, 'Yes'. I asked, 'Will there be a good time again after that bad time?' He said, 'Yes, but therein will be a hidden evil.' I asked, 'What will be the evil hidden therein?' He said, '(That time will witness the rise of) the people who will adopt ways other than mine and seek guidance other than mine. You will know good points as well as bad points.' I asked, 'Will there be a bad time after this good one?' He said, 'Yes. (A time will come) when there will be people standing and inviting at the gates of Hell. Whoso responds to their call, they will throw them into the fire.' I said, 'Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him), describe them for us.' He said, 'All right. They will be a people having the same complexion as ours and speaking our language.' I said, `Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him), what do you suggest if I happen to live in their time?' He said, 'You should stick to the main body of the Muslims and their leader' I said, 'If they have no (such thing as the) main body of the Muslims and have no leader?' He said, 'Separate yourself from all these factions, though you may have to eat the roots of trees until death comes to you and you are in this state.'"

Abu Hurayra (Allah be pleased with him) reported the Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him) as saying:
"Who (ever) defected from the obedience (to the Amir) and separated from the main body of the Muslims - then he died in that state - would die the death of one belonging to the days of Jahiliyya (pre-Islamic ignorance). And he who is killed under the banner of a man who is blind (to the cause for which he is fighting), who gets flared up with family pride and fights for his tribe - is not from my Ummah, and whoso from my followers attacks my followers (indiscriminately) killing the righteous and the wicked of them, sparing not (even) those staunch in faith and fulfilling not his obligation towards them who have been given a pledge (of security), is not from me." (Sahih Muslim, 3/4557 & 4555
Ahmad and Abu Dawood (Allah's mercy be upon them) said that Abu Dharr (Allah be pleased with him) reported the Prophet (Peace be upon him) as saying:

"He who separates from the main body (of the Ummah) by even a hand's breadth from the Community he throws off Islam from his neck." (Mishkat-ul-Masabih, 1/185 & Sunan Abu Dawood, 3/4740)

'Abdullah ibn Masood (Allah be pleased with him) reported that once Allah's Messenger (Peace be upon him) drew a line in the dust with his hand and said, "This is the straight path of Allah." Then he drew a series of lines to the right of it and to the left and said, "Each of these paths has a devil at its head inviting people to it." He then recited (Qur'an 6:153), "Verily this is my straight path so follow it and do not follow the (twisted) paths." (Collected by Ahmad, Nisai and Darimi; see Mishkat ul-Masabih, 1/166)
 
Ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Messenger (Peace be upon him) as saying:

"Follow the great mass (as-Sawad al-Azam) for he who kept himself away from it, in fact would be thrown in Hell Fire." (Ibn Majah; vide: Mishkat, 1/174, by A.H. Siddiqui).

 The translator of Mishkat-ul-Masabih (A.H. Siddiqui, pg. 113) said in the footnote to the last Hadith: "There is a good deal of difference of opinion as to what the term Sawad al-Azam implies. The overwhelming majority of the scholars are of the view that As-Sawad al-Azam means the largest group of the learned scholars and pious persons whose opinions are held in high esteem in Islam."
 
Imam al-Shafi'i said:

"He who holds what the Muslim community (Jama'ah) holds shall be regarded as following the community, and he who holds differently shall be regarded as opposing the community he was ordered to follow. So the error comes from separation; but in the community as a whole there is no error concerning the meaning of the Qur'an, the Sunnah, and analogy (qiyas)."

Imam Hakim (1/116) has related a Sahih Hadith from the Prophet (Peace be upon him) in the following words: "My Ummah shall not agree upon error."

Imam al-Tirmidhi (4/2167) reported on the authority of Ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) from the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), who said: "Verily my Ummah would not agree (or he said the Ummah of Muhammad) would not agree upon error and Allah's hand is over the group and whoever dissents from them departs to Hell." (see also Mishkat, 1/173) 

There are numerous others. I just posted the ones for which I had a reference.
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
IP IP Logged
asda
 
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 02 September 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 164
Quote asda Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2009 at 10:18am
just got few minuts to write this...will wrap it up quikly...

Originally posted by Chrysalis


 

1. The Companions of the Prophet, especially his near and dear ones, would never reject his wishes. You would know that if you had read ahadith, but then ofcourse, you reject most of them anyway.

 

2. Like you said yourself, the companions were taught by the best teacher of Quran, and learnt by his example, therefore they would know the importance of obeying his wishes, and be aware of the Quranic injunctions stressing on obeying the Prophet - thus would never ever disobey him.

 

3. Again, nobody prevented the Prophet from doing anything. The Prophet couldnt write in the first place. I highly doubt your consipiracy theory, but I shall go back in the thread and see which hadith you base this claim of yours on (prevention of writing the 'will') since I have not followed it from the start, because a lot of talk here gets on my nerves.

 

 


please dont waste my time wen u chat wid me next...i thout u knew some facts but sadly u were ignorant of what is going on in this thread....ignorance for u is a blessing...but not for me bro...
the hadith i was referring to is :

Volume 7, Book 70, Number 573:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

When Allah's Apostle was on his death-bed and in the house there were some people among whom was 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, the Prophet said, "Come, let me write for you a statement after which you will not go astray." 'Umar said, "The Prophet is seriously ill and you have the Qur'an; so the Book of Allah is enough for us." The people present in the house differed and quarrelled. Some said "Go near so that the Prophet may write for you a statement after which you will not go astray," while the others said as Umar said. When they caused a hue and cry before the Prophet, Allah's Apostle said, "Go away!" Narrated 'Ubaidullah: Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was very unfortunate that Allah's Apostle was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise."

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/070.sbt.html

i hope this answers what i was talking about...please go back and read the whole discussion...

and all your hadith one the majority suggest sticking to the MAIN BODY OF MUSLIMS!!!!! and dat does not mean the majority at all.....it talks about the people of haq...not the majority.....and if u want to know about what allah (s.w.t) says about majority i will give u an example:
"This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!"
Quran 10:92
there are few more such examples i can give u...


and mr sign*reader
i pity ure ignorance..
u have cried about ure own victory when u hav avoided the thruth and hav not tried thinking over it...

and jazakallah the people who hav supported hamas in gaza are mainly the followers of Ahlel Bayt (a.s)...rest every otheer arabs were sleeping....and worst..even caused harm...just to save their seats.....they surly dont want hamas and hizbullah to get popular among the massess....i remember wen some arab coutries openly supported the zionist in the 2006 war which mashallah hizbullah won and all of these people had to face the shame...

we cause hovac in hajj??? look whose talking??? nad ya...we go to hajj/umrah more than we go to visit the graves of Aaimmah (a.s)....now dont try to teach us things....face the truth...


and then u avoided some questions....ohh man...after dat..i see u winning..lolzzzzz

Iraq and Pakistan are American occupied countries facilitated by the SHii and Ahmedi agents!


I am tired of exposing your lies...let the others see it for themselves..

Imam Ali (a.s) was "elected" by the ahlus sunnah???? dats news to me...are u telling me that muawiyah was not a sunni?? did u forget the jamaa'ah?? and if muawiyah was not a sunni what was he??


i know u r scared because of our "hue and cry"....its this wat kills anti shias....if u truly think we r wrong...tell ureself and ure anti shia fellows...leave us to our condition...lakum deenakum waleeya deen...

again...i feel pity for ure ignorance on the fact that u think the umayyads and the abbasids were not sunnis...
IP IP Logged
Talib_Asadullah
Male  Islam
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 January 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 128
Quote Talib_Asadullah Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2009 at 7:35pm
Assalamu Alaikum

Alhamduillah, Thank you Brother/Sister SignReader and Sister Chrysalis(The Ahadith were on point) for taking the time to shift through all that information and standing up for the Jamma'ah. Jazak'Allah
Al-Qur'an was-Sunnah
IP IP Logged
Talib_Asadullah
Male  Islam
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 January 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 128
Quote Talib_Asadullah Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2009 at 7:39pm
Originally posted by asda


i know u r scared because of our "hue and cry"....its this wat kills anti shias....if u truly think we r wrong...tell ureself and ure anti shia fellows...leave us to our condition...lakum deenakum waleeya deen...


Assalamu Alaikum

Wont you consider that that might be very inapporiate, considering that ayah was aimed at the most ardent and staunch ones of the Kuffar and Mushrikeen?

When Did I, or anyone that disagrees with you in some areas, adopt a Way of Life contrary to Islam?
Al-Qur'an was-Sunnah
IP IP Logged
Sign*Reader
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 November 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3352
Quote Sign*Reader Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2009 at 8:52pm
  Sign*Reader in Burgundy asda in Black
i pity ure ignorance..
I think you live in some freak place and you come here to talk about ignorance that is absolutely funny attitude of turn coats....
How much support have you garnered on your POV....I would say zilch... The truth just like the Jooz and Xtians makes you mad ... The things you like ...the blood rituals of these old deviants who created religions out of person's names... You have no logic when become partisan of Ali against the party of Muhammad(s)

 We have seen that you guys were helpers in the Sunnis massacres in Iraq and Lebanon by joining hands with the west! Tell me that is a lie!

Your parents needed a better etiquette training to make you as better Muslim...


Why are you on this American Muslim site if don't want to listen to the truth?
Why hang around here if you don't like the truth?
What does that tell about your background and agenda?


u have cried about ure own victory when u hav avoided the thruth and hav not tried thinking over it...
What is there to think over when I know you guys like the back of my hand that you are so close to Catholicism in rituals and making up stories

and jazakallah the people who hav supported hamas in gaza are mainly the followers of Ahlel Bayt (a.s)...rest every otheer arabs were sleeping....and worst..even caused harm...just to save their seats.....they surly dont want hamas and hizbullah to get popular among the massess....i remember wen some arab coutries openly supported the zionist in the 2006 war which mashallah hizbullah won and all of these people had to face the shame...
How so?
Where were  Hizbilies this time when Gazan were being destroyed?
 Hamas helped Hizblies in 06,  ....Why didn't the Hizbilies or Iran help  Gazans?

None of Arabs are free to make their own decisions so what else is new for you? 

we cause hovac in hajj???
Yes there were a havoc many years back from the Iranians but the Saudi were ruthless to put it down..


 look whose talking??? nad ya...we go to hajj/umrah more than we go to visit the graves of Aaimmah (a.s)....now dont try to teach us things....face the truth...

Don't give me the BS!--you can't avoid these guys do sajdas on the dirt piece! May be you are well versed after all your rhetoric notwithstanding!


and then u avoided some questions....ohh man...after dat..i see u winning..lolzzzzz


I am tired of exposing your lies...let the others see it for themselves..

Of course .... A self praise is no recommendation!

Imam Ali (a.s) was "elected" by the ahlus sunnah???? dats news to me...
That is correct otherwise the Caliphate Rashdah would end with Usaman (r) I guess then you don't believe in Caliphate so you are out!
Capiche

are u telling me that muawiyah was not a sunni??
Cuz you are a bonehead
did u forget the jamaa'ah??
What is jamaa'ah?
and if muawiyah was not a sunni what was he??
That juresprudence schools had not begun yet as Reba would sa ..you moron...I think you should complete your membership data to know what is your where about ?

i know u r scared because of our "hue and cry"....its this wat kills anti shias....if u truly think we r wrong...tell ureself and ure anti shia fellows...leave us to our condition...lakum deenakum waleeya deen...
You wish you had a deen LOL

YOU have no self respect and are bad name for Islam if that is what you want hear! WATCH THIS VIDEO ABOUT TWO MINUTES AND THEN HOLD YOUR FREAKING BREATH AND LISTEN TO THE JEWISH WOMAN SAY ABOUT YOU SICK & DUMB IDIOTS ................
who gave the idea of slitting heads of underage kids WHERE DOES IT SAY IN QURAN?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FABqq_jjRRo&eurl=http://christopherhitchenswatch.blogspot.com/

It will be so nice if all you were sent to Iran to reduce the treason to the Ummah in bondage!
My brother married an Iranian and what she talks about Shiit mullahs it is just mind boggling how screwed up is their dogma.... that she is no more not even a Muslim! All the Iranain I have known were hardly Muslims much less Shiias! That should open your eyes!

again...i feel pity for ure ignorance on the fact that u think the umayyads and the abbasids were not sunnis...asda:
Quit the st**id talk! Just tell us in few words what are you doing here?
The absolute rulers believe what they believe they are above all these things only Allah knows! Seems like you are still learning but want to feel good by causing fitna ...
But you did read the linked article !
I think appropriate rhyme would be if you know "Pitty is pitiable"



Edited by Sign*Reader - 20 January 2009 at 9:12pm
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 7 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com