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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
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asda
 
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Quote asda Replybullet Posted: 16 January 2009 at 12:32pm
dear br Talib_Asadullah

wa'alikumassalam.
hope you are in the best of health...
there are few more examples i can provide...but lets go step by step..

you can read about the exile of marwan and his father hakam in the following book:
http://books.google.com/books?id=76qNufWWDPoC&pg=PA133&dq=hakam+prophet+exile#PPA133,M1

even though the 1st two caliphs were not convinced to bring him back, but still uthman went on to persue his words....thus this is not a fair deal...

just to let u know, the family of hakam was exiled because hakam mimicked the way the Prophet (s.a.w) walked and mocked the Prophet (a.s)....do u think a person who has lived under training of such a person shud be given a high position in society???
this is just one example..

surly the faults which does not effect the society shud be conceled...but imagine this......if someone you know dint have a good behavior....and the next day u see him teaching morals to his students...isnt it ure responisbilty to warn his students because he might be teaching them wrong...hope you get what i am trying to say.....

regarding the will of Prophet (s.a.w)...it is not that the Prophet (s.a.w) dint want to write a will, but he was not allowed to write a will:

Volume 7, Book 70, Number 573:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

When Allah's Apostle was on his death-bed and in the house there were some people among whom was 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, the Prophet said, "Come, let me write for you a statement after which you will not go astray." 'Umar said, "The Prophet is seriously ill and you have the Qur'an; so the Book of Allah is enough for us." The people present in the house differed and quarrelled. Some said "Go near so that the Prophet may write for you a statement after which you will not go astray," while the others said as Umar said. When they caused a hue and cry before the Prophet, Allah's Apostle said, "Go away!" Narrated 'Ubaidullah: Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was very unfortunate that Allah's Apostle was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise."

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/070.sbt.html




br.seekshidayath
when i said dat, i meant dat for this person sign*reader...surly this board is not anti-shia..others on this board are well respectful and open to views...and i thank u all on that...on ure insist...i will answer those questions inshallah soon....just give me a bit of time..as i am also preparing for my xams...

i request br hossain and br myahya to leave that on me...

regards
asda

Edited by asda - 16 January 2009 at 1:00pm
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Talib_Asadullah
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Quote Talib_Asadullah Replybullet Posted: 16 January 2009 at 5:42pm
Originally posted by asda

dear br Talib_Asadullah

wa'alikumassalam.
hope you are in the best of health...
there are few more examples i can provide...but lets go step by step..

regarding the will of Prophet (s.a.w)...it is not that the Prophet (s.a.w) dint want to write a will, but he was not allowed to write a will:

Volume 7, Book 70, Number 573:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

When Allah's Apostle was on his death-bed and in the house there were some people among whom was 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, the Prophet said, "Come, let me write for you a statement after which you will not go astray." 'Umar said, "The Prophet is seriously ill and you have the Qur'an; so the Book of Allah is enough for us." The people present in the house differed and quarrelled. Some said "Go near so that the Prophet may write for you a statement after which you will not go astray," while the others said as Umar said. When they caused a hue and cry before the Prophet, Allah's Apostle said, "Go away!" Narrated 'Ubaidullah: Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was very unfortunate that Allah's Apostle was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise."

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/070.sbt.html


Assalamu Alaikum

The question is.. How do we know what he(SAWS) would write? Do we know that he(SAWS) would even be informing us through this statement who the Khilafah would be? From the hadith, it can be deduced that he(SAWS) wasnt allowed to write, but it was through the annoyance of the people that he(SAWS) decided not to! This is all conjecture because it never transpired.

Allah knows best
Al-Qur'an was-Sunnah
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Quote asda Replybullet Posted: 17 January 2009 at 7:32am
wa'alaikumassalam

yes we dont know wat he wanted to write....but the point is y wasnt he allowed to write his will....there is one fact all of us shud accept here....i.e whatever he wanted to write, was something very important...and following to that, there wud hav been no one who wud hav gone astray:
"Come, let me write for you a statement after which you will not go astray."
in short something was important in his sunnah which he wanted to write there.....

but wat is the reply he got:
you have the Qur'an; so the Book of Allah is enough for us.

is this statement ever said by the Prophet (a.s) that the quran is enough for you...does his sunnah hav no importance???

and if quran was enough, why was there so much discord among the ummah after his death??



Edited by asda - 17 January 2009 at 7:32am
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Quote Chrysalis Replybullet Posted: 17 January 2009 at 11:08am
Originally posted by asda

wa'alaikumassalam

yes we dont know wat he wanted to write....but the point is y wasnt he allowed to write his will....there is one fact all of us shud accept here....i.e whatever he wanted to write, was something very important...and following to that, there wud hav been no one who wud hav gone astray.....

 
The Prophet was not allowed to write his will? Who would not allow him to do that? He was a Prophet, remember? And all his companions stuck to his every single word and command. They didnt take his wishes/commands lightly. Please use your words carefully.
 
What a ridiculous conspiracy theory - sounds like a muslim version of the Da Vinci Code. You are suggesting that the Companions were conspiring against Prophet Muhammad, and prevented him from doing something he wanted to - which changed the course of Islam as we know it? Ermm
 
The burden of conveying Islam, and preserving it, is a responsibility Allah took upon Himself. Had the making of a 'will' been an important tenent of Islam, that would have preserved it, Allah would have made sure it was stated clearly and established.
 
Also, unlike other religions/systems - Islam does not support the idea, that authority and power is transferred through genes or family name. Which is why Prophet Muhammad had no successor - apart from the muslim ummah itself.
 
 
 
 
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Quote Talib_Asadullah Replybullet Posted: 17 January 2009 at 12:05pm
Originally posted by asda

wa'alaikumassalam

yes we dont know wat he wanted to write....but the point is y wasnt he allowed to write his will....there is one fact all of us shud accept here....i.e whatever he wanted to write, was something very important...and following to that, there wud hav been no one who wud hav gone astray:
"Come, let me write for you a statement after which you will not go astray."
in short something was important in his sunnah which he wanted to write there.....

but wat is the reply he got:
you have the Qur'an; so the Book of Allah is enough for us.

is this statement ever said by the Prophet (a.s) that the quran is enough for you...does his sunnah hav no importance???

and if quran was enough, why was there so much discord among the ummah after his death??



Assalamu Alaikum...So the question I would ask is..Who has gone astray???
Al-Qur'an was-Sunnah
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Quote Sign*Reader Replybullet Posted: 17 January 2009 at 10:33pm
Originally posted by asda

wa'alaikumassalam

yes we dont know wat he wanted to write....but the point is y wasnt he allowed to write his will....there is one fact all of us shud accept here....i.e whatever he wanted to write, was something very important...and following to that, there wud hav been no one who wud hav gone astray:
"Come, let me write for you a statement after which you will not go astray."
in short something was important in his sunnah which he wanted to write there.....

but wat is the reply he got:
you have the Qur'an; so the Book of Allah is enough for us.

is this statement ever said by the Prophet (a.s) that the quran is enough for you...does his sunnah hav no importance???

and if quran was enough, why was there so much discord among the ummah after his death??


I can't help but comment...............
While each and every Muslim knows the Prophet (saw) could not  read or write making it  a moot point .....
The discord was due to the Koofan Fitna who cheered Hussain (r) on for a clash with the state knowing fully well the outcome but still let it happen....
Then use the lunar month to do the lamentation and flagellation way illogical to get same thing like the Ramadan! The death day and birthdays have to go by solar system only...Not that it is going to effect the change any time soon but I thought to point it out the utter ignorance of the masses and also their retarded greedy leaders....
Look at the death certificate if you have one handy what calender do you see!

We have so much discord in the world due to the Jooish claim of the only chosen people plus the lament of the holocaust making the whole world hostage.... while knowing the fact the Nazis who killed the Jooz are also dead but they continue to extract more mileage by teaching holocaust guilt in American schools who weren't even involved in the Jooz killings by a long shot... What sense does it make to continue belly aching about the sahabas ....they did this and they did that analogous to the Joowish thinking.........A continuous Fitna...It is backbiting the dead people I think by the time you get to the judgment day there will be hardly any good works left on your record to show to Allah swt... so do astaghfar for all the bad mouthing pronto.... you know what I mean and take it easy.........


Edited by Sign*Reader - 18 January 2009 at 10:54pm
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Quote Talib_Asadullah Replybullet Posted: 18 January 2009 at 9:44am
Assalamu Alaikum

Alhamduillah, I agree about the badmouthing part.
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Quote asda Replybullet Posted: 19 January 2009 at 10:56am
Originally posted by Chrysalis

wa'alaikumassalam yes we dont know wat he wanted to write....but the point is y wasnt he allowed to write his will....there is one fact all of us shud accept here....i.e whatever he wanted to write, was something very important...and following to that, there wud hav been no one who wud hav gone astray.....

The Prophet was not allowed to write his will? Who would not allow him to do that? He was a Prophet, remember? And all his companions stuck to his every single word and command. They didnt take his wishes/commands lightly. Please use your words carefully.


What a ridiculous conspiracy theory - sounds like a muslim version of the Da Vinci Code. You are suggesting that the Companions were conspiring against Prophet Muhammad, and prevented him from doing something he wanted to - which changed the course of Islam as we know it? [IMG]http://www.islamicity.com/forum/smileys/smiley24.gif" height="17" width="17" align="absmiddle" alt="Ermm" />


The burden of conveying Islam, and preserving it, is a responsibility Allah took upon Himself. Had the making of a 'will' been an important tenent of Islam, that would have preserved it, Allah would have made sure it was stated clearly and established.


Also, unlike other religions/systems - Islam does not support the idea, that authority and power is transferred through genes or family name. Which is why Prophet Muhammad had no successor - apart from the muslim ummah itself.






conspiracy theory???
okay fine....imagine this....if you would have been there, and the Prophet (s.a.w) was asking for pen and paper....what would you do, reject his wishes??? or quikly follow his orders??? please let me know...

are you trying to tell me that the Prophet (s.a.w)'s writing was not important??? remember that the Prophet (s.a.w) was on his death bed....and surly not feeling well...in this condition he wants to write something which will prevent people from going astray...look at the importance given by Prophet (s.a.w) to this...the people who prevented him to write whatever he wanted to, y do u think they did so....did they not read the quran where Allah (s.w.t) has repeatedly said:

Surah al Maidah verse 92 "Obey Allah and Obey his Prophet and worry, and be warned that the Prophet's duty is only to deliver the message clearly"

Surah Mujadilah verses 12-13 "Perform Salat (Prayer), give Zakat and Obey Allah and his Prophet"

and for a fact, Allah (s.w.t) orders them not to take his orders lightly:

Surah Anfal verse 20: "O ye who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger, and turn not away from him when ye hear (him speak)."

Surah Hashr verse 7 "And whatsoever the messenger giveth you, take it. And whatsoever he forbiddeth, abstain (from it). And keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is stern in reprisal."


are you trying to tell me the people who were around the Prophet (s.a.w) dint have knowledge of quran??? i am sure its not like that....they were tought Quran by the Best teacher of quran on earth....how can they forget all this...


Islam does not support the idea, that authority and power is transferred through genes or family name.


i agree with ure point expressed above....


Originally posted by Talib_Asadullah


Assalamu Alaikum...So the question I would ask is..Who has gone astray???


before moving on to the consequences, it would be better if we would analyse this event thoroughly....the people actually quarelled in front of the Prophet (s.a.w) when Allah (s.w.t) had clearly said:

Surah Anfal verse 46 "And obey Allah and His Messenger and do not quarrel."

and all the disputes were to be solved on the orders of the Prophet (s.a.w), y not this one:

Surah Nisa verse 59 "O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination."


y is it that Umar made a claim that " the Book of Allah is enough for us." when the Rasulullah (s.a.w) had clearly stated I leave behind me two things, the Qur'an and my example, the Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray.
Sahih Al-Bukhari hadith 1623, 1626, 6361; Sahih Muslim hadith number 98; al-Tirmidhi hadith nos. 1628, 2046, 2085; Ahmed bin Hanbal in his Masnud, hadith no. 19774. Please look up the actual Arabic wording for yourselves.


doesnt all of this show that the Prophet (s.a.w) feared the People would go astray???


Originally posted by Sign*Reader




I can't help but comment...............While each and every Muslim knows the Prophet (saw) could not read or write making it a moot point .....


I am really sad to read your comment on rasulullah...if the Prophet (s.a.w) dint know how to read and write, WHY WAS HE ASKING FOR PEN AND PAPER???
okay fine...lets suppose he dint know how to read and write (maazallah) dont u agree that somebody shud hav brought it to him so that he could relate whatever he (s.a.w) wanted to...
okay...i ask u the same question, what would u do if u were ordered by the Prophet (s.a.w) to bring pen and paper??? would u remind him that he does not know how to read and write or u would follow his (a.s)'s orders???


Then use the lunar month to do the lamentation and flagellation way illogical to get same thing like the Ramadan! The death day and birthdays have to go by solar system only...Not that it is going to effect the change any time soon but I thought to point it out the utter ignorance of the masses and also their retarded greedy leaders....
Look at the death certificate if you have one handy what calender do you see!


please dont try to stray away from the topic...if u want to adress any of the above issues u can open a new thread and debate with me on this...inshallah this will be adressed..


Originally posted by Sign*Reader



It is backbiting the dead people I think by the time you get to the judgment day there will be hardly any good works left on your record to show to Allah swt... so do astaghfar for all the bad mouthing pronto.... you know what I mean and take it easy.........


if "this" is called "backbiting" on the deads then this form of "backbiting" is the sunnah of Allah (s.w.t)...dont you read the story of qarun in quran?? dont you read what Allah (s.w.t) has said about abu lahab??? havent you read the varios mistakes commited by the people who disobeyed the Prophets (May Peace and belessings be on all of them)....I just fear that you would be counted among them....

Edited by asda - 19 January 2009 at 10:58am
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