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Message Icon Topic: On Praising People Post Reply Post New Topic
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AhmadJoyia
 
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 10 July 2005 at 9:02pm
Ok, my bro MOCKBA, now that you want to discuss this issue as a matter of manners without associating any divinity in it, yes then, I can think of discussing it here. With that in mind, then I think its more appropriate to give a person his right due that he deserves from us. If, one thinks that someone has done good job, there may not be any hesitation to appreciate it openly whether on his face or on his back; as it encourages others to follow suit to do good. This is similar to writing a letter of recommendation for someone whom you know had done some good job or have some unique qualities. Yes, ofcourse one should always avoid over doing it in either direction; positive or negative. Similarly, if one's opinion is needed about someone, then it should be given without any baisness attached to it or due to any other affiliations with him. Hence praising people may be done with due proportion without imbalance, where ever it is needed.

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MOCKBA
 
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Quote MOCKBA Replybullet Posted: 10 July 2005 at 10:33pm

Bismillah

Brother Ahmad, writing recommendation letter is not praising, it is appraisal. And even proper business ethics and etiquette (contrary to what is commonly practiced) demands that contents of such correspondence are not revealed to the person being appraised... not praised.  

If one's opinion is needed about someone it remains an opinion and not a praise, even if it may contain elements of sharing positive qualities one should make it clear that it is only his or her personal opinion and be honest. 

You can always appreciate something by supplicating, thus establishing Sunnah of our beloved Prophet (may Allah's peace be upon him). Appreciation of someone's kindness, help or contribution should be expressed, in fact it is obligatory to thank people in Islam, however it should not be done in the form of praising them.

Do you see the difference? Insha Allah.

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AhmadJoyia
 
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 11 July 2005 at 6:02am
Bro MOCKBA, appreciation can be given in many forms as was done by our beloved prophet from time to time depending upon situation to situation and not just through supplication as has been suggested. The same fact is mentioned in your own quotes "Imam An-Nawawi has stated that these ahadith are in prohibition of praise while there are many in favour of it.". Hence, giving thanks is just one of them but that is not all of it. Praising could also be in the form of encougement or it could be in the form of giving a challenging job which only few could do it or it could be by giving some material benefit like gifts etc etc. However, general rule of Islam is to avoid exaggeration in everything and give the person his due as what he deserves. Hence, praising people on their face is not bad all by itself untill or unless one does it with exaggeration. Hope one may not limit the vast complex nature of human behaviour into the narrow alley of one's own perception in the name of religion.
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Quote ummsalam Replybullet Posted: 11 July 2005 at 7:49am

salamu alaikum,

All praises are due to Allah. Usually when we start something a halaqa, a duaa, ect. We begin saying all praises are due to Allah. Meaning no one is worthy of praise except Allah (swt). You can of course compliment people. I mean the prophet encouraged complimenting each other with nice words. But a compliment doesnt necessarily mean praise. You are beautiful, mashaAllah. Here, you're praising Allah Swt, because you pointed out something or someone beautiful but it was only with the will of Allah. Praise is not allowed, because its complimenting someone on something that they supposedly had done, but we forget that Allah (swt) controls everything, and without Allah (swt)'s will we would have never had the wealth, beauty, patience, wisdom, or anything that is being praised on your behalf. So yeah in my opinion compliment people, because if someone is good at organizing events, but they dont have the selfesteem to do it, a compliment is all it takes. Like 'SubhannaAllah, i have never seen someone as efficient as you and detail oriented, that makes your organizational skills so exquisit. MashaAllah." So basically you're always praising Allah, and helping your brother or sister.

Jazakum Allahu khairan

asalamu aliakum

umm salam
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AhmadJoyia
 
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 11 July 2005 at 8:12am

Like 'SubhannaAllah, i have never seen someone as efficient as you and detail oriented, that makes your organizational skills so exquisit. MashaAllah." So basically you're always praising Allah, and helping your brother or sister.

I think, sister you have beautifully penned it down, Mashallah! Whatever one may call it, praise or compliment, more important is to give a person his due with correct proportion in a proper way i.e. realizing that everything belongs to Allah and Allah alone. BTW Did I commit any wrong in praising/complimenting you for your correct understanding? I don't think so, but then who does think that way?

 

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Quote MOCKBA Replybullet Posted: 11 July 2005 at 8:21am

Originally posted by AhmadJoyia

Bro MOCKBA, appreciation can be given in many forms as was done by our beloved prophet from time to time depending upon situation to situation and not just through supplication as has been suggested. The same fact is mentioned in your own quotes "Imam An-Nawawi has stated that these ahadith are in prohibition of praise while there are many in favour of it.". Hence, giving thanks is just one of them but that is not all of it. Praising could also be in the form of encougement or it could be in the form of giving a challenging job which only few could do it or it could be by giving some material benefit like gifts etc etc. However, general rule of Islam is to avoid exaggeration in everything and give the person his due as what he deserves. Hence, praising people on their face is not bad all by itself untill or unless one does it with exaggeration. Hope one may not limit the vast complex nature of human behaviour into the narrow alley of one's own perception in the name of religion.

Bismillah

Brother Ahmad, for the benefit of all, could you please provide evidence from authentic resources to support your view of "desirability of praising people in the face" in Islam. In my case, the "narrow alley of my own perception" did not come in before relevant information with reliable resources was made available.

General rule on exaggeration, which you have conveniently tried to apply to praising, is primarily concerned with things that are allowed in Islam and not those that are undesired. Likewise difference between the words "appraisal", "compliment", "appreciation", "flattery", "thanking" and "praise", should also be observed.

Through my reading and studies I have only come across general view stating undesirability of praising people in the face with some exceptions, primarily involving children where certain departures are allowed to facilitate communication process. This however does not mean that the process of knowledge seeking ends… therefore I would appreciate some sharing.



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AhmadJoyia
 
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 11 July 2005 at 9:03am

My dear Bro MOCKBA,

We have already discussed over the reliability of your info as where do they stand from a logical perspective. On examples, your own references should provide you the requisite info, ("Imam An-Nawawi has stated that these ahadith are in prohibition of praise while there are many in favour of it.". ) but I shall also see if I can bring in some examples. 

General rule on exaggeration, which you have conveniently tried to apply to praising, is primarily concerned with things that are allowed in Islam and not those that are undesired.

My brother, one can't dismiss the argument merely because he thinks so. We have yet to see how this "moderate act of genuine praising" is undesirable act in Islam. Isn't it?

Now with so much similar words coming up, can you define  "praise" explicitly excluding other words from this definition? Hopefully this shall help to better understand your point of view.

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Quote MOCKBA Replybullet Posted: 12 July 2005 at 12:00am

Bismillah

Brother Ahmad,

We have not agreed on your refutation of authenticity of the quoted ahadeeth, neither have you opposed the view that logics cannot navigate us in matters of deen.

As i mentioned, I have given evidence from authentic resources (which you are yet to provide)... and not merely personal thoughts that followed only in response to your splitting of the ahadeeth, questioning appropriateness of throwing dust, logical and metaphorical nature of the sayings and equation of the subject discussed to something different. "Undesired" does not mean prohibited and may be allowed (perhaps this may clarify the stand). The key message, however, remains in undesired... preferred to be avoided if possible.

When challenging the issue of undesirablity of praising in Islam, you are not confronting my personal opinion, you are confronting the agreement of the scholars who have collected enough evidence to arrive at such conclusion. Myself, simply accept what they say... provided of course that it is based on Qur'an and Sunnah.

Here is another definition in addition to what i have earlier pointed out with regards to the meaning of "praise" and its distinction from appraisal, thanking, compliment. Although i have marked my stress in blue, i prefer that the meaning of the word is taken in holistic approach without picking vegetables from the soup.

praise   Audio pronunciation of "praise"(prz)
n.

  1. Expression of approval, commendation, or admiration.
  2. The extolling or exaltation of a deity, ruler, or hero.
  3. Archaic. A reason for praise; merit.

tr.v. praised, prais˛ing, prais˛es
  1. To express warm approbation of, commendation for, or admiration for.
  2. To extol or exalt; worship.



[Middle English preise, from preisen, to praise, from Old French preisier, from Late Latin pretire, to prize, from Latin pretium, price. See per-5 in Indo-European Roots.]

 

Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds!

 




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