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Message Icon Topic: On Praising People Post Reply Post New Topic
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amna_ali
 
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Quote amna_ali Replybullet Posted: 07 July 2005 at 10:15am

Asslamualaikum

Originally posted by Israfil

With all due respect MOCKBA what do you call the Shia when they praise Ali, who was neither a prophet nor had any divine right?

 Alhumdolillah-i-rubilaalamin. Nodoubt all prophets, sahabas, are priaseworthy.

Further, it is not bad if we praise a person in his/her absence. But here the issue is to praise a person in his/her very presence...

Ma Salaam 

Kind words and the covering of faults are better than charity followed by injury. God is free of all wants and He is most forebearing. (Al baqra: 263)
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 07 July 2005 at 10:20am

As'Salamau Alaikum,

Besides for obvious reasons what is the difference between praise in absence and in person?

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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 07 July 2005 at 11:19am
Thanks Bro MOCKBA for your elaboration of the ahadith. However, though I see you explaining my speicific concern with regard to a metaphor, but I do see someone making use of literal understanding as well. e.g. in your own post `When you see those who shower undue praises upon others throw dust upon their faces.''' and then by the commentator "If one can throw grit in his face, that should also be done."
 Do you really think this is a recommended path by an ever tolerant and peace loving prophet?


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Quote MOCKBA Replybullet Posted: 09 July 2005 at 1:13am

Bismillah

Brother Ahmad,

I am not quite sure whether there is meaning in a metaphorical sense. And i tend to believe that one has to look at the situation, or the setting of the situation. The act and the form of throwing dust could be assimilated with the act of spitting three times on your left upon having had a bad dream (form of spitting comprising mainly of air with little spittle)... where picking a handful of sand to blind someone in the cloud of dust may not be the way.

The key message here is the undesirability of praising in the face. The udesirability of creating discomfort by praising a genuinely humble person, or sowing a seed of arrogance and selfish pride in the mind of the weak.

Brother Israfil,

As far as Shia' notion of praising Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) is concerned, i am not familiar and not very interested to know. It is impossible to be praising him in the face and as such the discussion becomes irrelevant. 

Sister Amna Ali,

It some of your examples, the distinction must be made between praising and thanking. Flattering or praising is not just to say something kind about a person. Flattering is to praise excessively especially from motives of self-interest. Praising is to glorify especially by the attribution of perfections.

It is not human nature to praise if humans do not make it as such. Some cultures encourage praising others, to boost self-confidence, even when there is nothing much in their doing that truly deserves praise.

In Islam praise is often associted with Allah, the Most High.  

In many instances we are taught to praise Allah and supplicate to Him in the place where our culture would encourage exalting of the person (when sneezing, when receiving favour from someone, help, support, charity etc.). We are not asked to come up with huge mockups of cheques to make sure the amount of contribution made is well captured well by the media... in fact, we are taught to do the opposite when performing charity, in a way that our left hand is not aware of what the right hand is doing.  

"If someone does you a favour and you say Jazzak Allahu Khairan (May Allah reward you with goodness) then you have indeed exelled in praising."  



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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 10 July 2005 at 10:16am
My dear bro MOCKBA, though I do understand your point of emphasis through such explanations, but my point of view is little more concerned with respect to most of the people taking literal meanings of it on one hand and taking the law (if there is any law from such ahadith) into their own as your example shows. On the more, a more to worry is the literal interpretation suggested by the commentator as well. However, I think, if one of part of the hadith is beyond logically comprehensible, how would the rest of it assert its effectiveness? Only Allah knows the best.
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Quote MOCKBA Replybullet Posted: 10 July 2005 at 3:20pm

Bismillah

Bro Ahmad, in my personal opinion, from the information shared, it is much more likely that people will refrain from praising others in the face rather than begin throwing dust at each other. The supporting reference teaches you to avoid praising people, that is the primary goal, not to throw grit. Your point on logical incomprehension of the hadith is exaggerative. On the other hand, there are many instances when logic cannot navigate us in the matters concerning our din.

I think the key message was made clear and some of the additional explanation on a simple subject like this was not necessary.

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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 10 July 2005 at 7:17pm

Bro MOCKBA, I can never accept this decoupling theory for hadith especially once it is purported to be universally applied with both in time and space dimensions. This theory or as what you think, is more weakened when it totally neglects the complex variations in human nature and behavior over this time and space dimensions especially once we start assuming about likelyhood of refraining its one part and acknowledging the other. However, this explanation of yours of refraining people, even though, it is based upon your assumption, atleast do show that my logical incomprehension of hadith is not all that exaggerative. Also, true that not all matters of din can be construed through mere logic, but ofcourse the present topic under discussion is not the one among them. Isn't it or you think otherwise?

Now coming to your comments about key message and the additional explanation, the fact remain that if one part of hadith can't logically be authenticated, there remain little reason to consider the rest of it as genuine either. Key message, hence doesn't become the key anymore. Isn't it?



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Quote MOCKBA Replybullet Posted: 10 July 2005 at 8:24pm

Bismillah

Bro Ahmad, i regret to say this, but you are not making sense. Perhaps someone else may contribute to this discussion, if they like, as i have repeatedly made the message clear and wish not dominate the thread. The hadith is not about fundamental principles of shari'ah or execution of such principles, it is not about strict definitions of halaal and haram,  it is about good manners...  It is NOT about waiting for the first opportunity to throw dust in the faces of people BUT it is about undesirablity of prasing people. And that was the topic.

If you are questioning the authenticity of the ahadith based on your own understanding of what is logic and not (approach that will eventually lead you to reject most of them), it is a different issue and there is little i can do but pray that Allah shed some light on us both. 



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