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 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : General : General Discussion
Message Icon Topic: On Praising People Post Reply Post New Topic
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AhmadJoyia
 
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 12 July 2005 at 6:40am
Originally posted by MOCKBA

Bismillah

Brother Ahmad,

We have not agreed on your refutation of authenticity of the quoted ahadeeth, neither have you opposed the view that logics cannot navigate us in matters of deen.

If someone can't explain his own quotated ahadith, its preferable not to bring them in discussion on the board. Again, repeating myself, I  definitely do not consider your quoted ahadith to fall in the category of something beyond logic. Also, your silence to explain them does show your uneasiness over the issue of their reliablity, though you may not admit it openly.

As i mentioned, I have given evidence from authentic resources (which you are yet to provide)...

It would be naive to ask others something that his quotes do the same job. Kindly read the discussion in the last paragraph mentioned in your own quotes. Here it is once again if someone is not reading them.

 "Imam An-Nawawi has stated that these ahadith are in prohibition of praise while there are many in favour of it. `Ulama are of the opinion that the two points of view can be reconciled. If the one who is praised has perfect Faith and confidence and is endowed with the gift of knowledge by Allah and has control over his self and thereby he is not likely to go astray by praise, then praising him is neither unlawful nor disgusting. But if he is vulnerable to praise then praising him in his presence is abhorred. Ahadith in prohibition of praise support this point of view. While one of the ahadith, which are in favour of praise, relates to the occasion when the Prophet (May Allah be pleased with him) said to Abu Bakr As-Siddiq (May Allah be pleased with him): "I hope that you will also be among them,'' that is "You will be one of those who will be called from every gate of Jannah.'' (See, Sahih Al-Bukhari, Kitab Fada'il As-Sahabah). Another hadith on the issue relates to the event when the Prophet (PBUH) said to Abu Bakr (May Allah be pleased with him): "You are not one of them.'' What it signified was that "You are not one of those who keep their trousers below their ankles out of sheer pride.'' (See, Sahih Al-Bukhari, Manaqib Abu Bakr). He said to `Umar (May Allah be pleased with him): "When Satan sees you going on some way, he leaves it and proceeds to some other direction.'' (Al-Bukhari, Manaqib `Umar)." 

I hope this underlined and italicized text shall provide ample examples where praising has been done on the faces of those being praised.

and not merely personal thoughts that followed only in response to your splitting of the ahadeeth, questioning appropriateness of throwing dust, logical and metaphorical nature of the sayings and equation of the subject discussed to something different.

My dear brother here is your final verdict after presenting all of the above and much more in you posts on page 1 of this thread. "In any case and seeking the firm side, making a supplication when we feel like praising someone (like a simple Jazak Allahu Khairan) will be much more effective and rewarding, insha Allah." This conclusion of yours reminded me of banning female driving the vehicles in the kingdom of Saudi Arabia on the similar pretexts. I am afriad this kind of conclusions may not help the Muslims to come out of the ditch in which they have already spending alot of their energies. May Allah guide us to the right direction. Amin.

 "Undesired" does not mean prohibited and may be allowed (perhaps this may clarify the stand). The key message, however, remains in undesired... preferred to be avoided if possible.

I would rather modify your stance if not contradict to say "undesired if exaggerated"

When challenging the issue of undesirablity of praising in Islam, you are not confronting my personal opinion, you are confronting the agreement of the scholars who have collected enough evidence to arrive at such conclusion. Myself, simply accept what they say... provided of course that it is based on Qur'an and Sunnah.

Understanding if something is based on Quran and Sunnah requires wisdom and logic. Isn't it? Secondly, my stance is of relative nature depending upon the one who is being praised when I say "undesirable if exaggerated" which perfectly conforms to the opinion of atleast one scholar that you yourself have quoted. Here is his opinon "If the one who is praised has perfect Faith and confidence and is endowed with the gift of knowledge by Allah and has control over his self and thereby he is not likely to go astray by praise, then praising him is neither unlawful nor disgusting. But if he is vulnerable to praise then praising him in his presence is abhorred." However, I don't see this conforms to your conclusion when you say in absolute terms by categorizing it "undesirable".

Here is another definition in addition to what i have earlier pointed out with regards to the meaning of "praise" and its distinction from appraisal, thanking, compliment. Although i have marked my stress in blue, i prefer that the meaning of the word is taken in holistic approach without picking vegetables from the soup.

praise   Audio pronunciation of "praise"(prz)
n.

  1. Expression of approval, commendation, or admiration.
  2. The extolling or exaltation of a deity, ruler, or hero.
  3. Archaic. A reason for praise; merit.

tr.v. praised, prais˛ing, prais˛es
  1. To express warm approbation of, commendation for, or admiration for.
  2. To extol or exalt; worship.



[Middle English preise, from preisen, to praise, from Old French preisier, from Late Latin pretire, to prize, from Latin pretium, price. See per-5 in Indo-European Roots.]

Here are my comments upon your preference of definition of "praise" the blue in color:

This definition is, ofcourse, an extreme of exaggeration of praising someone (human), conforms to my point of view (undesirable if exaggerated). However, this definition of praise compalsarily require Muslims to reject it all the time and not just on the face of the one who is being praised. Hence your own stance (undesirable) does not fit this definition.

 

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MOCKBA
 
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Quote MOCKBA Replybullet Posted: 12 July 2005 at 7:15am

Bismillah

"If the one who is praised has perfect Faith and confidence and is endowed with the gift of knowledge by Allah and has control over his self and thereby he is not likely to go astray by praise, then praising him is neither unlawful nor disgusting. But if he is vulnerable to praise then praising him in his presence is abhorred."

We are all vulnerable to praise at various degrees. It is not often that we can feel truly confident of someone's perfect faith and his or her ability to control his/ her self, if ever at all. It is Allah's greatness to scan people hearts and know what is in them, and all praise is due to Him. The above ARE however valid instances, but they are relevant to exeptional and NOT general circumstances.  

You have drawn wrong message from my silence in much the same way you are trying to draw it from the general position of Islam on praising i shared earlier. I have not felt uneasy on the subject, but i did feel uneasy on the amount of attention and time given to the matter.

This bi-polar discussion is no longer serving its intended purpose and for the sake of keeping the bond of brotherhood strong i am withdrawing from the no longer necessary argument. You may continue to research the subject and share your discoveries and i only pray that Allah guides us all straight.

Jazzak Allahu Khair.  

MOCKBA
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AhmadJoyia
 
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 12 July 2005 at 7:52am

My Dear Bro MOCKBA, I truely respect your gesture of brotherhood. ................(I hope I have not done a undesirable act here)

When someone admit other possibilities either in the form of exceptions or generalities, then its always preferable to talk in words of relative terms (e.g. undesirable if exaggerated) rather than making absolute verdicts in absolute terms (undesirable!) and thus excluding all other possiblities. 

May Allah give us wisdom and logic to understand the issues with conformity with Quran and Sunnah. Amin.

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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 13 July 2005 at 5:34am

First of all brother does your screen name read Moskova? I can't say musch for two reasons. Firstly, I haven't really been following your string. I jumped into it just because I saw that the last post was by him. I owe him my life. He saved me from a whole Community and his total abuse of ayaats somewhere else. Secondly, I am no scholar and know not even one hadith.

But I just know one thing. Dale Carnegi says in his famous book "How To Win Friends and Influence People": "we must praise everybody, to the hilt and even if it's a bit out of place. We must go blue in our faces tellinh people how beautiful and wonderfool they are. It sells anything you want, especially if the goods are not in any shape to be sold".

My friend, it's just damn good for business. What are we talking about here? Is there anything more sacred than our goddess of Global Economy? Placed in that great plastic temple of Cap It All ism?

It's not a "Clash of Civilisations". But just of Plastic Temples, Tin gods with Islam. Now we know why West is really so scared of Islam.

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