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Message Icon Topic: Israeli Jets bomb Gaza: 1,300 Dead Post Reply Post New Topic
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Hyposonic
 
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Quote Hyposonic Replybullet Posted: 31 December 2008 at 5:59pm
Duende,
 
Did you ever see my message to you? If not, please scroll back.
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism"
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Duende
 
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Quote Duende Replybullet Posted: 01 January 2009 at 12:09am

Hyposonic
"thank you for the suggestion of writing to your local congressman. Unfortunately where I live that is not possible but if you can give me a link where I could perhaps email a lengthy opinionated response to this horrific situation it would be helpful, thanks!"


Hyposonic, if you scroll back and read carefully, you will see that I did not reccommend you write to your representative, since I know it will MAKE NO DIFFERENCE. I am convinced there is no political will to change anything in the Israeli-Palestine conflict. This does not mean I encourage only war and killing. If you read my post again, you will see that I was talking about the problem for Americans which is that your culture invariably reduces everything to an either-or situation. That will certainly never resolve anything.

I urged people to write to the AVAAZ organisation to complain about their lack of coverage of the Gaza crisis. I was once persuaded this organisation was 'different' and actually tried to fight for justice, and they certainly present themselves as a hopefull organisation using people power to counter the politicians who go deaf once they are in office. But seeing the silence from AVAAZ, both during the blockade building up to the Israeli massacre and now, almost a week since the murderous attacks began, I can see they are ruled by the same Zionist agenda as the mainstream media throughout the West.

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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 01 January 2009 at 7:22am
Today both side are acting in revenge.  There can be no endng if both sides are fighting in a revengful, eye for an eye mentality!!
 
There is a way that would be for either Israel or Gaza to follow the teachings of Jesus- turn the other cheek.  Read Matthew 5.  If one group followed all of this teaching then the world and more importantly GOD would be on your side.
 
An interesting note- In Jesus' time this did not mean that you give in and let the person slapping you free rein over your life.   Please read:
 
 
"In the Mishnah penalties and compensation are prescribed that are due as punishments for various infractions. There was a difference in slapping someone with the back of the hand versus the palm of the hand. When Jesus says, “If someone strikes you on the right cheek,” he is talking about a slap with the back of the hand as most people are right-handed. The Mishnah lays out compensation for those who experience such a shaming action. A slap with the palm of the hand carried a penalty twice as much as a slap with the back of the hand (Mishnah, B. Ḳ. viii. 6). Why would it contain a higher fine? Because to be struck on the right cheek, with the back of the hand, would be more degrading and shameful than to be struck on the left cheek with the palm of the hand. In effect, Jesus is saying, if someone degrades or shames you greatly by a backhanded slap on the right cheek, turn your left cheek to him and see if he is willing to say you are closer to his equal than the initial slap indicated. Of course, this also would inflict more compensatory damage to the one doing the slapping.

This verse does not say as much about pacifism as it has to say about the culture of honor and shame that they lived in. They heard these words totally different than we hear them today."

How do people fight with honour, as equals on a level ground?  
 
Also the bit about giving up your tunic in Matthew 5 - it is not the naked person that is sinning but the person looking at the naked person, the person that has taken the clothes from you.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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hat2010
 
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Quote hat2010 Replybullet Posted: 01 January 2009 at 8:52am
Originally posted by Duende


Hyposonic
"thank you for the suggestion of writing to your local congressman. Unfortunately where I live that is not possible but if you can give me a link where I could perhaps email a lengthy opinionated response to this horrific situation it would be helpful, thanks!"


Hyposonic, if you scroll back and read carefully, you will see that I did not reccommend you write to your representative, since I know it will MAKE NO DIFFERENCE. I am convinced there is no political will to change anything in the Israeli-Palestine conflict. This does not mean I encourage only war and killing. If you read my post again, you will see that I was talking about the problem for Americans which is that your culture invariably reduces everything to an either-or situation. That will certainly never resolve anything.

I urged people to write to the AVAAZ organisation to complain about their lack of coverage of the Gaza crisis. I was once persuaded this organisation was 'different' and actually tried to fight for justice, and they certainly present themselves as a hopefull organisation using people power to counter the politicians who go deaf once they are in office. But seeing the silence from AVAAZ, both during the blockade building up to the Israeli massacre and now, almost a week since the murderous attacks began, I can see they are ruled by the same Zionist agenda as the mainstream media throughout the West.



AVAAZ: I think I signed up with them awhile back per your suggestion, as I just received a new letter from them today regarding Gaza.

But, I'll say in positive terms of conversing with/confronting your senator(s) -

If you can afford to make a trip...
I can endorse making a visit to DC if you represent a neighborhood association, a business and I suppose, a religious group. The older and larger, the better - obviously.
What do you do once you are in the office?
Amazingly, not all that much. It's rather informal. Just talk. If you get the senator, cool. You'll probably be talking to an informed twenty-something, but as long as you leave your well-stated grievance there after some discussion, it's very likely to get some kind of attention and response.

What to ask for...   what to demand... it all requires a bit of research into the bills that are pending; i.e, how much dough earmarked for Israel's war machine, how much for aid to suffering Gazans, etc.    

When I lived in New Orleans, I saw seemingly lost causes (poor neighborhoods vs shipping industries) get turned around by steady communal pressure on the government to get involved.   

This presupposes bro Hypo is in the US...   here in North Africa, where our governments, most being rent-a-cops for western corporations, just physically strangle opposition - we are left with the usual; political quietism, noisy useless debate, and/or war without gov't sanction... "terrorism".


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Duende
 
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Quote Duende Replybullet Posted: 01 January 2009 at 10:09am
Jamal, I have no doubt that on the local level, grass roots movements actually get results.

But look what happened recently with the famous 700 Billion Dollar bail out plan, known as TARP. When it was first tabled, Hank Paulson drafted a law which would have granted him and his cronies practically free hand, with NO oversight. American citizens were outraged and a concerted effort flooded, literally swamped representatives with individual messages overwhelmingly against the bankers' bail out.

It worked. The bill was rejected resoundingly in the lower house.

Then what happened? It got re-written, bloated from a simple few pages to a whopping 300 page bill which subsequently passed through the upper house, despite what the American tax payer said. The new, improved version makes it law that US banks no longer have to keep a reserve, so in the event that you want to withdraw your savings, they are under no obligation whatsoever to actually give you your money.

That, and many more small issues which add up to daylight robbery, committed under the gaze of the US citizen. So, what good did it do all those thousands of people who made the effort to contact their rep?

In such 'large' national issues, such as the TARP case, that of the money of individual citizens now held by unnacountable institutions, and the fundamentals of the US economy: politicians simply do what they 'believe' to be the right thing. This invariably turns out to be what is the right thing for bankers and the politicians who are in their pockets.

In this life-and death situation involving an individual foreign sovereign state (I mean, Israel is supposed to be a sovereign state, right? and not another US state...?) there are simply too many complex invested interests involving too many non-US national interests, (the complete geo-political tapestry which has been so cleverly woven by the Anglo-Zionist brotherhood) for the few thousand US citizens contacting their local rep to make any difference at all.

We have a long way to go: I personally am now certain that the age of professional politics is over. From what I can see, very few people would agree with me, and after all, what else can we do, but use the tools we have to hand? All I can suggest is a detailed study of a few small examples of viable alternatives, starting with Subcomandante Marcos and the Chiapa movement of Mexico.

We do not as yet have any satisfactory alternative in place. The hopeful, globally connected, internet-based 'movement' which many feel offers an alternative to the utter failure of politics as we know it, exists only in cyber space. Of the few thousand people who sign AVAAZ petitions, how many would actually turn up at a physical rally: risk arrest, imprisonment, summary judgement, police brutality, for what they believe ....? That is one reason why the PTB (Powers That Be) are not at all worried by the cyber movements and organisations. And they have carefully equipped their police with the means to quell just about any puny demo, in any case.

There are very few Rachel Corries in this world. I am not one. But I must urge everybody to start the difficult process of changing your thinking, because this is the first step towards freeing ourselves of the useless limits we have allowed to be put in place, by embracing the lie of 'democracy'. The democracy which allows for the TARP, which allowed for the first G. W Bush term, the democracy delivered to Sadaam's Iraq, the democracy practiced by the profoundly racist state of Israel currently notching up advantage points counted in the lives of murdered Palestinians ........
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Quote ak_m_f Replybullet Posted: 01 January 2009 at 10:54am
I think that Palestine made a big mistake in revolting against the Othman empire and siding with the British and should ask Allah for forgiveness.

The Palestinians participated whole heartedly in the battles of Aqaba and Jerusalem by being as guides and providing intelligence report to British troops, also fighting alongside with them.

Instead of demanding better conditions in the Ottoman Empire they bought the idea of "freedom" to become slaves.The sharifs of Mecca were keen on this idea and in the end got nothing except Transjordan strip and slavery for ever. A good bargain for those who love "Arab" nationalism forgetting the Prophets last sermon.

Edited by ak_m_f - 01 January 2009 at 10:55am
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Hyposonic
 
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Quote Hyposonic Replybullet Posted: 01 January 2009 at 3:10pm
Gah! nevermind
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism"
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Quote Sign*Reader Replybullet Posted: 01 January 2009 at 3:45pm


US Leaders Staunchly Support Israeli Attacks on Gaza

As the war in the Gaza Strip rages on, protests continue all across the world. In the United States alone, over 100 protests have already been organized against the attacks, from a small rally in Salt Lake City to much larger rallies along the east coast. Among the largest was in Dearborn, Michigan, where thousands of protesters braved freezing cold temperatures in a rally organized by the Congress of Arab-American Organizations.

But in the media these rallies are given short shrift; an interesting but ultimately irrelevant aside in a nation where the political leadership is firmly and fervently in favor of the Israeli attack. From the Bush Administration to Speaker Nancy Pelosi, the position is loud, and unified, Israel must be supported in its war at all costs.

Unique among officials in having publicly condemned the attacks is Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich, who labeled the attacks disproportionate and has urged a United Nations investigation. The lone political voice on the side of the tens of thousands of protesters across the country and untold numbers who share their sentiment, Kucinich has raised the ire of many, including Israel Project founder Jennifer Laszlo Mizrahi, who condemned the Congressman for not understanding “the security concerns of the Israeli people,” adding that the fact that he isn’t President-elect proves he isn’t what the voters wanted.

As has been the case since the war began, the real President-elect has remained silent on the situation. What was he doing today instead of commenting on the hundreds of people killed in the Gaza Strip? According to the Associated Press, he was getting his picture taken with a nine-month-old. That was probably fulfilling in its own way.



Edited by Sign*Reader - 01 January 2009 at 3:50pm
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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